UK imposes price cap on Motorola's radio network for emergency services

ur20v

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Looks like US agencies aren't the only ones Motorola attempts to wring every cent out of... Will this set a precedent and will more government customers follow suit? Maybe Motorola will "get the message" and make changes, or will they just bulldoze ahead like they always have?

 

RaleighGuy

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I have to say, 6-7 thousand dollars for a trunking P-25 radio is ridiculous.

Nothing in the article limits or caps the price they can charge for equipment, only the price of using the system/airwaves that they bought. Won't be surprised if replacement equipment prices go up now.

Which begs the question, why would emergency services rely on a privately owned radio system to carry their critical emergency and encrypted transmissions?
 
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chrismol1

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I have to say, 6-7 thousand dollars for a trunking P-25 radio is ridiculous.
not so rediculous for them, over the past few decades they've made quite the brand name for themselves and they've found out that its not a problem the government and grants will pay for it


more detailing the massive amount and the issue surrounding the change over. They've already spent quite a bit of money and delay and they're done paying out the rear
It's not been cheap either, with the Home Office having spent £2 billion ($2.4bn) on the ESN project so far, while spending £2.9bn ($3.49bn) to keep Airwave going.

The NAO report also revealed that the Home Office paid out £45 million ($54m) to terminate its contract with Motorola Solutions two years early for the delivery of the core voice application for the ESN.

This includes a payment of £27m ($32.5m) to Motorola to settle outstanding milestones and disputes following negotiations to end its ESN contract early. Motorola will also be paid £18 million to continue testing and enable the Home Office to ensure that ESN works with Airwave, notes the NAO.

It means that Motorola will no longer play a part in the ESN after 2023, while the Home Office “does not currently know when ESN will be ready or how much it will cost," while also paying Motorola more than £300m on software that the ESN won't even use.

If the UK is to continue using Airwave up until the end of the decade as expected, it will cost at least £250m ($301m) a year.

and....looks like US prices may go 'up' a little to account for "missing" or less than profit
Last week’s CMA summary includes a footnote that the Airwave contract “accounted for 7-8% of Motorola’s global revenue—but between 21% and 26% of its global pre-tax profits—in 2018, 2019 and 2020.” In many recent years, the profit from Airwave has represented the bulk of Motorola Solutions’ global profits outside of North America, according to financial sources.
 
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radionx

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Maybe they should just implement a NXDN trunked network on 160MHz (or 70MHz countryside) and ditch that uberexpensive TETRA bullcrap.

ASAP.
 

mancow

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Yeah but that's a NFPA 1802 fire radio designed to be thrown into a wood stove, removed, and be used. And it's usually green. It HAS to be green or yellow for firemen because it just has to be.

Try pricing a APX NEXT XN.
Ah the NEXT, the radio nobody needs. Trying to get patrol guys to switch zones on an APX 4000 or 6000 is like instructing them to guide the Apollo 11 to the surface. I can't imagine them using a phone like brick that will only end up on one or two channels before the screen is bashed in.
 

12dbsinad

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Ah the NEXT, the radio nobody needs. Trying to get patrol guys to switch zones on an APX 4000 or 6000 is like instructing them to guide the Apollo 11 to the surface. I can't imagine them using a phone like brick that will only end up on one or two channels before the screen is bashed in.
Mother is pushing them hard around here and the patrolman just want to go back to a MTS2000 :ROFLMAO:
 

paulears

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You’re apply American logic. This doesn’t work. It’s a historic mess. Airwave, a nice secure system that replaced the old analgue different networks the emergency service used here, never worked properly. Compared to the old one, it had poor coverage, excessive features that didn’t work and was universally disliked by the users at ground level, and the infrastructure people who struggled with it. Run by Motorola, with handsets from Motorola and one other company, they were nothing like standard off the shelf products that could be just programmed for a system, like the other digital flavours. It was so bad, it was due to be scrapped, but the turn off date has passed because the replacement, which is based on piggybacking on the EE mobile phone network has real problems too. The biggest one being that cells are typically in the lowest levels of police buildings, in concrete, with rebar, with no phone signal. Airwave used antenna sites that the Government owned in addition to remote antenna sites. Each police station had an Airwave antenna on the roof, making the basements workable. We have never been allowed cellular domestic, business or local repeaters. The easily available ones were banned. The law was changed and they are now OK, and cynics think it’s because they are essential for the new system.

the dates were pushed back and back, but the new system is still not sorted, so Motorola‘s new system could not be turned on, or even finished design. The Government asked Motorola to keep the old one going, despite the crazy running costs of Airwave, which involved, we are told, even more money. It was then revealed Motorola had been talking to the one competitor of theirs (partner?) about keeping the prices they both charged high. This price fixing was revealed, but contracts are active and it’s getting messy. If Motorola cannot make the new system work they get paid extra for extending life on the less rubbish one. No other manufacturer can even get involved.

the new systems are just too clever and are being tested for real to discover things don’t work. The old one also is strange. At the moment, we get crazy things happening. Command and control is no longer local, so it depends 100% on the system, not local knowledge. Our town is split by a river, two lifting bridges and two railway crossings. North to south can sometimes take 40 minutes to do 3 miles. I do this all the time. As a result, we have two fire stations, one north, one south. One crew member tells me so often, fire engines meet on one of the bridges, one going north, the other south. Dispatch to the address done by the system, not humans. The radios tell control the nearest, via GPS and the repeater network signal strength and while google maps will understand time, and traffic, the government system system gets it wrong, all the time. The police systems sometimes regenerate old calls and send units to old calls, but their controllers have got this sort of error sorted. If a car is parked in a radio black spot, as it returns to the network, all the missing traffic suddenly triggers action, when it’s usually ended!

Motorola and Sepura have a virtual monopoly on the handsets. Most police officers have to carry two radios to make sure they have access to both nets, because the radios cannot multitask properly.

US readers have to understand our whole country runs like your individual counties, not even states. The government design, control and fund the comms systems for fire, ambulance, coastguard and police. Fire, police and ambulance use airwave as their system. Coastguard have a few airwave handsets, but use marine band which works perfectly for them. For them to talk to a police officer requires so much button pushing and senior officer approval, it rarely gets done. A police officer cannot just talk to an ambulance at an incident. There is no button both can press, despite both being on airwave.

Motorola have the Government in a strangle hold, and have clearly been taking advantage. Before airwave, the analogue system was run by the government using standard comms products and brands could and were, mixed. Airwave put a stop to that. Motorola and Sepura. Closed to every other manufacturer. A unique system, no competition, and it is rubbish.
 
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prcguy

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You’re apply American logic. This doesn’t work. It’s a historic mess. Airwave, a nice secure system that replaced the old analgue different networks the emergency service used here, never worked properly. Compared to the old one, it had poor coverage, excessive features that didn’t work and was universally disliked by the users at ground level, and the infrastructure people who struggled with it. Run by Motorola, with handsets from Motorola and one other company, they were nothing like standard off the shelf products that could be just programmed for a system, like the other digital flavours. It was so bad, it was due to be scrapped, but the turn off date has passed because the replacement, which is based on piggybacking on the EE mobile phone network has real problems too. The biggest one being that cells are typically in the lowest levels of police buildings, in concrete, with rebar, with no phone signal. Airwave used antenna sites that the Government owned in addition to remote antenna sites. Each police station had an Airwave antenna on the roof, making the basements workable. We have never been allowed cellular domestic, business or local repeaters. The easily available ones were banned. The law was changed and they are now OK, and cynics think it’s because they are essential for the new system.

the dates were pushed back and back, but the new system is still not sorted, so Motorola‘s new system could not be turned on, or even finished design. The Government asked Motorola to keep the old one going, despite the crazy running costs of Airwave, which involved, we are told, even more money. It was then revealed Motorola had been talking to the one competitor of theirs (partner?) about keeping the prices they both charged high. This price fixing was revealed, but contracts are active and it’s getting messy. If Motorola cannot make the new system work they get paid extra for extending life on the less rubbish one. No other manufacturer can even get involved.

the new systems are just too clever and are being tested for real to discover things don’t work. The old one also is strange. At the moment, we get crazy things happening. Command and control is no longer local, so it depends 100% on the system, not local knowledge. Our town is split by a river, two lifting bridges and two railway crossings. North to south can sometimes take 40 minutes to do 3 miles. I do this all the time. As a result, we have two fire stations, one north, one south. One crew member tells me so often, fire engines meet on one of the bridges, one going north, the other south. Dispatch to the address done by the system, not humans. The radios tell control the nearest, via GPS and the repeater network signal strength and while google maps will understand time, and traffic, the government system system gets it wrong, all the time. The police systems sometimes regenerate old calls and send units to old calls, but their controllers have got this sort of error sorted. If a car is parked in a radio black spot, as it returns to the network, all the missing traffic suddenly triggers action, when it’s usually ended!

Motorola and Sepura have a virtual monopoly on the handsets. Most police officers have to carry two radios to make sure they have access to both nets, because the radios cannot multitask properly.

US readers have to understand our whole country runs like your individual counties, not even states. The government design, control and fund the comms systems for fire, ambulance, coastguard and police. Fire, police and ambulance use airwave as their system. Coastguard have a few airwave handsets, but use marine band which works perfectly for them. For them to talk to a police officer requires so much button pushing and senior officer approval, it rarely gets done. A police officer cannot just talk to an ambulance at an incident. There is no button both can press, despite both being on airwave.

Motorola have the Government in a strangle hold, and have clearly been taking advantage. Before airwave, the analogue system was run by the government using standard comms products and brands could and were, mixed. Airwave put a stop to that. Motorola and Sepura. Closed to every other manufacturer. A unique system, no competition, and it is rubbish.
I wouldn't call it American logic but rather Motorola logic. Over sell and under perform, that is the core of their business. Got a working analog system? Great, we'll sell you a new digital system that will never perform as well and will cost your first and second born child, every year. And it will take years to get working at a level far below what you expect. You will get use to the diminished performance and you will learn to like it!

Think you can purchase other brands of radios to use on our bloated system? Wrong! Think again and only think Bloatorola. Want to let others bid on your next communications job? Go ahead and we will sue you. Why? Because we are your friends here at Motorola and that's what we do.
 

R8000

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I was once told by a well respected RF Engineer at MSI to never bash the "other guy". It just destroys your credibility and respect in the RF industry.
I was guilty of that myself until I realized how right he was. I don't do that anymore.
 

paulears

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Our Home Office ran the system until the Conservative Government decided that many critical services would be sold off to private companies. Without being political, we have communications by telephone having been private for years. Railways have been brought under national control and then sold off again because it was awful. Private companies providing Government services is normal here. Even our prisons have been sold off to profit making organisations. British Steel, British Gas, British Steel and loads more are not Government controlled. Our Royal Air Force use planes belonging to private companies. Many people remember nationalised industry as inefficient and unresponsive. Now we have shareholders first. Neither system is good, but as it splits our two main political parties, that's what we vote on. We used to have a nationalised Lifeboat service, well, sort of nationalised - one big organisation not quite in Government control, but we now have private ones too - so that's following US practice.
 
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