Unication G5 Oddities?

[Synapt]

So I'm experiencing what I would consider an oddity with the G5s, unless this is expected behavior (though nothing in the manuals and docs seem to imply it).

We just got some new G5s, and I configured them for our county P25 Trunking infrastructure (which is also technically a multi-county trunking infrastructure called ICORRS). Despite the knob being configured to only monitor our fire dispatch as priority and ems dispatch as non-priority, we seem to be able to monitor not only every other talkgroup configured under the Trunking System TGID list, but we appear to be also picking up talkgroups not only not listed in our TGID list, but from another county's system (who is part of the overall ICORRS system as well).

Any one got an idea on this one and how to restrict it? I don't necessarily mind accidentally picking up all our own county talk groups but picking up the ones not actually listed is gonna be a headache lol.

 

[K9KLC]

Do you have it set to trunking monitor?

 

[Synapt]

Do you have it set to trunking monitor?

Ah let me check that, I might have selected that thinking it was necessary for trunked infrastructures and plain scanning/monitoring for conventional.

Interesting that the option can literally scan /other/ county site IDs as well lol, I may have to keep a knob set to that.

 

[Synapt]

Do you have it set to trunking monitor?

Okay I tried switching it to "Selective Scan" and "Monitor" And it appears my theory was correct, as it only gives me conventional/analog Two-Tone options, it does not give me the 800MHz talk group tone monitoring.

 

[Synapt]

Okay believe I finally figured it out. So to monitor openly (like a scanner) just /specific/ talk groups, I have to use Trunking TG-Scan (not Trunking TG-Monitor), and then set Sub-Group Feature binding along with Monitor Manual Reset for the reset mode.

Using Trunking TG-Monitor appears to act as a full infrastructure monitor, monitoring everything, including talkgroups not even configured in the pager.

Nice feature to that is it basically turns the Unication G5 into a hell of a scanner. Caveat however is it apparently doesn't use the TGID lists, as it shows the hex/decimal values instead of the actual group aliases.

 

[K9KLC]

Using Trunking TG-Monitor appears to act as a full infrastructure monitor, monitoring everything, including talkgroups not even configured in the pager.

Correct, which is why I asked the question. It will monitor anything not-encrypted that comes out the site you are monitoring.

Caveat however is it apparently doesn't use the TGID lists, as it shows the hex/decimal values instead of the actual group aliases.

Correct, if you do not have it in the priority or non priority list the alpha tag will not be shown. What I do in my area is, in the knob position I have set to that (TG Monitor) I do go ahead and put in the stuff I'm most interested in identifying and the others just come up as the TG numbers. You can only put up to 64 TG's in the list so that's the most it can ID. Frankly after traveling some to different areas, I just honestly remember some of the TG numbers. I guess it comes from remembering "what frequency was what" back in the day or even what channel number was what back when we had crystals. NO I do not have every TG in "my memory" but some of the top ones stay in there

 

[Synapt]

Correct, which is why I asked the question. It will monitor anything not-encrypted that comes out the site you are monitoring.

Correct, if you do not have it in the priority or non priority list the alpha tag will not be shown. What I do in my area is, in the knob position I have set to that (TG Monitor) I do go ahead and put in the stuff I'm most interested in identifying and the others just come up as the TG numbers. You can only put up to 64 TG's in the list so that's the most it can ID. Frankly after traveling some to different areas, I just honestly remember some of the TG numbers. I guess it comes from remembering "what frequency was what" back in the day or even what channel number was what back when we had crystals. NO I do not have every TG in "my memory" but some of the top ones stay in there

Yeah the 64 Talkgroup monitoring seems kinda crappy considering you can define 1024 TGIDs lol. I also wish you could monitor multiple zones at once. I'd like for us to be able to dual-watch our 800 and UHF paging frequencies instead of having to switch between.

 

[RaleighGuy]

Yeah the 64 Talkgroup monitoring seems kinda crappy considering you can define 1024 TGIDs lol. I also wish you could monitor multiple zones at once. I'd like for us to be able to dual-watch our 800 and UHF paging frequencies instead of having to switch between.

But it was known that was the limits long before you bought it, and most professional agencies (who the pagers were designed for) don't really have the need for more than 64 TGs (or 63 if you use the 65535 wildcard).

 

[Synapt]

But it was known that was the limits long before you bought it, and most professional agencies (who the pagers were designed for) don't really have the need for more than 64 TGs (or 63 if you use the 65535 wildcard).

The P25 infrastructure here is a multi-county one that's all interops integrated. They are up to roughly 720~ total talk groups so far between all 8 counties on the system lol. Something like roughly 90 alone between my county and the county south we run mutual into.

 

[RaleighGuy]

The P25 infrastructure here is a multi-county one that's all interops integrated. They are up to roughly 720~ total talk groups so far between all 8 counties on the system lol. Something like roughly 90 alone between my county and the county south we run mutual into.

But how many TGs are monitored at one time by the normal user under normal conditions? And, aren't notifications sent out when specific mutual aid channels are assigned?

So, if I understand what you are saying, your department made a bad choice and purchased an item that wasn't designed for the job you need it to do?

 

[Synapt]

But how many TGs are monitored at one time by the normal user under normal conditions? And, aren't notifications sent out when specific mutual aid channels are assigned?

So, if I understand what you are saying, your department made a bad choice and purchased an item that wasn't designed for the job you need it to do?

What? Literally said nothing of the sort, just said it sucks it doesn't do more lol. I get it's pretty early morning but ya might wanna have a cup of coffee first before hitting the forums

As far as notifications go, not really, it's less a matter of assigning and us just using the pagers as pseudo-scanners to listen on things in the southern county, especially if it might give us a heads up that we'll be getting a dispatch to a fire on their side (which all the advanced heads up we can get is useful as it usually takes up to 4-5 minutes sometimes for the counties to communicate with each other to where our county dispatches us out for the call).

 

[K9KLC]

Yeah the 64 Talkgroup monitoring seems kinda crappy considering you can define 1024 TGIDs lol. I also wish you could monitor multiple zones at once. I'd like for us to be able to dual-watch our 800 and UHF paging frequencies instead of having to switch between.

The limitations of the Unication Voice Pagers vs a Scanner are not a secret. Do I wish it did other things than what it does? Sure I do, but, I knew going into it its limitations. That being said, on the simulcast systems (using 2 pagers) I've had nothing work better or have longer battery life than an actual subscriber radio and, frankly the Unication on some instances did more than the subscriber radio did. Also as has been said here, "the more you scan the less you hear". (on a single device).

 

[Synapt]

The limitations of the Unication Voice Pagers vs a Scanner are not a secret. Do I wish it did other things than what it does? Sure I do, but, I knew going into it its limitations. That being said, on the simulcast systems (using 2 pagers) I've had nothing work better or have longer battery life than an actual subscriber radio and, frankly the Unication on some instances did more than the subscriber radio did. Also as has been said here, "the more you scan the less you hear". (on a single device).

Yeah I already advised the others to not do the full monitoring without probably being plugged into USB to compensate. Judging by the specs of the G5 and the amplifier dock it looks like as long as you got it plugged into an adapter or USB port that can do 1.5+ amp it'll keep powered without discharge.

Probably not gonna really do it that much, but it makes for a nice 'option' at least. I threw it in at knob option 8 lol.

Edit: Should also note we're /pretty rural/. So even monitoring two counties, outside of big storms, radio traffic isn't too active.

 

[K9KLC]

Yeah I already advised the others to not do the full monitoring without probably being plugged into USB to compensate. Judging by the specs of the G5 and the amplifier dock it looks like as long as you got it plugged into an adapter or USB port that can do 1.5+ amp it'll keep powered without discharge.

I highly recommend the amplified charging dock for for the G5. #1 saves wear and tear on the USB port (a known possible weak spot in the pager) and also provides a great way to use an external antenna if needed/desired. I've even been known to throw mine in the car with a short antenna and power to it, and it makes monitoring certain things (especially VHF on my G5's) way better. I am however amazed, at how well it actually works on the internal antenna though on VHF, usually outperforming some other scanners with larger telescoping antennas.

 

[K9KLC]

But how many TGs are monitored at one time by the normal user under normal conditions?

You know this is a great question. Honestly, it took my Unication programming to make me understand I was trying to have a different device I was testing at the time programmed all wrong, and why that didn't work like I thought it should. I have several sites on different knob positions for local use, and honestly 90% of the time I only have it scanning the main list I've put into the scanner. I do have the same site in trunking monitor also for rare occasions I want to hear "outside the box" but don't use those positions nearly as much as I thought I would. Just too much happening in my area I guess at times and, was missing too much scanning too much.

 

[Synapt]

Okay so now it seems I'm just down to one last issue ultimately. How in the world do I keep the screen from turning on from radio traffic on a plain scan and off-duty knob setup?

Edit: actually two questions, is there no way to configure on duty/off duty per knob? The side column help box seems to imply you can but I do not see it anywhere for options.

 

[K9KLC]

Okay so now it seems I'm just down to one last issue ultimately. How in the world do I keep the screen from turning on from radio traffic on a plain scan and off-duty knob setup?

Edit: actually two questions, is there no way to configure on duty/off duty per knob? The side column help box seems to imply you can but I do not see it anywhere for options.

I'll have to let someone else take over here, I've never used "off duty" for any of my settings. I simply turn it off when I don't want to have it monitoring. Good luck!

 

[Synapt]

I'll have to let someone else take over here, I've never used "off duty" for any of my settings. I simply turn it off when I don't want to have it monitoring. Good luck!

Yeah I guess worst case I'll just have to show the guys how to do that lol. I was hoping for a per-knob sort of configuration like Minitors where some knob configs would be purely to listen for tones but not display/audible anything.

I definitely find it weird even in off duty though the screen still lights up from activity.

 

[AK9R]

Let's focus on answering the OP's questions and not judging his reasons for doing so.

 

[Synapt]

Let's focus on answering the OP's questions and not judging his reasons for doing so.

In fairness the guy that did seemed to delete the comment pretty rapidly lol.

I like these Unications, I just hate that they use a lot of the same explicit phrasing as the Minitors but don't do the same exact thing.

For example in the Minitors "Scan" vs "Monitor" is literally that, one scans silently and the other openly monitors, yet in the Unication "Scan" seems to actively monitor while "Monitor" literally monitors the ENTIRE infrastructure. But where it's mainly confusing is based on the help column to the right, what my "Trunking TG-Monitor" is doing is what it should only be doing under "Free Scan";

Free Scan:

• In this mode, not only the specified talk group(s) will be received, but also any talk group(s) can be received.

So I dunno if I got a firmware bug or something, cause the firmware version on my G5's appears to be one version ahead of what is publicly available. Unication website says v2.02 and v2.03 are latest available, but autoup shows v2.02 as latest, but our pagers have v2.03.

Doubly strange is I have a buddy with a Unication from his station saying his does not monitor actively on his scan-only knob options, and I've basically duplicated his settings to no success of ours doing the same thing.