Uniden Or Whistler For DMR?

[bearcat]

Like buddrousa, I own both BCDx36HP and TRX units. My views (I'm sure others will have different opinions):
- Overall, the Uniden is a superior scanner for functionality/ease of use/software vs the TRX....the Uniden is a 'proper' high-end scanner: sometimes the Whistler feels a bit more like a prototype.
- Both are good at decoding conventional DMR repeater signals, with excellent voice decode quality.
- The Uniden is superior for properly decoding and following the various types of DMR signalling (Trunked, XPT, TIII etc).
- However, the Whistler is superior for DMR Simplex/Uplink signals where the Uniden really struggles here, in particular on VHF channels.
- Relative to the TRX-1, the 436 eats batteries like they're going out of fashion.
- I prefer the ease with which recording is enabled on the TRX (it just works), but the recording capabilities and ease of playback on the Uniden is better.
- The Whistler is really only gered up for scanning channels - it has very limited tools and functionality to make it easy to search for new channels. As a proper high-end scanner, the Uniden is much better here.
- I won't comment on price, as only you can make a judgement on what you're prepared to pay for what features.

Overall for DMR decoding, if the DMR simplex issues were resolved, and you don't mind swapping batteries more often, then I'd vote for the Uniden every time.

I am curious are you using FW 1.11.20? Ever since that FW was released. My DMR simplex decode is in the very high 90 percentile.

 

[Phillipsc84]

If TG 1 is the same (say podunk PD dispatch) for both, you have 2 options:

1. If both freqs are broadcast from the same tower, create a DMR One Freq system with one site, add both freqs to the site, and create TG 1 under a Department in the system.

2. If the freqs are broadcast from different towers, create a DMR One Freq system with two sites, add one freq to each site, and create TG 1 (and any other talkgroups) under a Department in the system.

If TG 1 on one frequency is not the same as TG 1 on the other frequency (say Pudunk PD dispatch on Freq 1 and Humpville PD dispatch on Freq 2), then you need to set up two entirely separate systems. One system will have a site with Freq 1 and TG 1 defined as "Podunk PD Dispatch", and the other will have a site with Freq 2 and TG 1 defined as "Humpville PD Dispatch".

Do not put multiple freqs in a single system if the talkgroups are not defined the same way on each freq.

Here's the data I'm working with. So all of these with RM are repeaters (obviously) and the M are simplex. so ignoring those simplex ones for now I have sorted by frequency so the pairs are together. All of these are at the same site. A theme park. All are conventional and each FREQ/CC/TS/TG are programmed as a channel in the radios. With the logic above I'd have one site with 6 frequencies. Then I'd have all my groups for those repeaters set as channels. So If I just wanted to hear security which would always be found here:

461.975 CC13 TG32 SL1 SECURITY
I hold on that but the scanner will be scanning all 6 frequencies in my site and checking for a match. If those frequencies are busy then it will have to stop on each one and check the signal for a match and then move on, thus slowing down the scanning.

461.225 M CC 13 TG 94 SL 1 FINANCE TA
461.375 M CC 13 TG 36 SL 1 EMERGENCY TA
461.6 RM CC 13 TG 93 SL 2 MANAGER TA
461.6 RM CC 13 TG 82 SL 1 ENTERTAINMNT
461.875 RM CC 13 TG 52 SL 1 RESALE
461.875 RM CC 13 TG 33 SL 2 FIRST AID
461.975 RM CC 13 TG 32 SL 1 SECURITY
461.975 RM CC 13 TG 92 SL 2 FINANCE/IS
462.025 RM CC 13 TG 72 SL 1 PARK OPS
463.25 RM CC 13 TG 22 SL 1 WATER PARK
463.25 RM CC 13 TG 63 SL 2 ALPHA
463.275 M CC 13 TG 65 SL 1 ECHO
464.175 M CC 13 TG 67 SL 1 DELTA
464.35 M CC 13 TG 53 SL 1 FOODS TA
464.4 M CC 13 TG 64 SL 1 BRAVO
464.9 RM CC 13 TG 62 SL 1 MAINTENANCE
466.15 M CC 13 TG 34 SL 1 PARKING LOT
466.25 M CC 13 TG 66 SL 1 RIDE OPS TA
466.375 M CC 13 TG 35 SL 1 SEC CH5 TA
466.675 M CC 13 TG 54 SL 1 MERCH TA
466.775 M CC 13 TG 55 SL 1 CARTS TA
467.4 M CC 13 TG 33 SL 1 FIRST AID TA


I'm open to ideas on how to accomplish this

NOTE: my original point was that if Uniden could just alter the conventional system type to allow entering color code AND time slot/talkgroup for frequencies using DMR this would all be irrelevant.

 

[jonwienke]

No it wouldn't. Entering a separate conventional channel for each talkgroup would be the stupidest and slowest possible way to monitor the system. Here's the right (and most efficient) way:

Create a DMR One Frequency System.

Create a Site for the System. Tag the Site with the GPS coordinates of the tower location. Set the Site Range parameter to a reasonable approximation of how far the site signals can be received.

Add each frequency to the Site. Do not add any frequency to the Site more than once. If you are sure of the color code, go ahead and enter it as part of the Site frequency data.

Create a Department. Tag the Department with the GPS coordinates of the center of the park. The Range setting should at a minimum enclose the entire park. Add all of the talkgroups as Channels under the Department. Tag each talkgroup with the appropriate Service Type.

When monitoring the system, the scanner will scan each frequency. Any time a transmission is detected, the scanner will make a note of the talkgroup ID, and based on the Service Types you're monitoring and any Holds you have active, it will either play the audio or move on.

While it is possible that in some instances this will scan more slowly than conventional channels, it will be faster than monitoring a conventional channel for each talkgroup if you are listening to the entire system. Also, it's worth noting that even with simplex, you can have more than one talkgroup on a frequency/timeslot combo, and when the admin of this system figures that out, your conventional channel/talkgroup mapping will be completely shot to hell.

Using the One Frequency System, you will be able to monitor talkgroups without reconfiguring your System programming, even if the System admins move the talkgroup to a new frequency or timeslot every 5 minutes. As long as the talkgroup ID continues to identify the same users and type of traffic, you're good.

 

[racingfan360]

I am curious are you using FW 1.11.20? Ever since that FW was released. My DMR simplex decode is in the very high 90 percentile.

Affirmative.UHF simplex DMR definitely improved with this firmware release, but IMHO and based on quite a bit of testing, VHF decode got worse. I still suspect the firmware changed sensivity on the uhf band, vs change much in the dmr decoding logic, hence the improvement. Id estimate the 436 decodes about 30-50% of what the whistler does on dmr simplex on side by side comparison tests.

 

[sibbley]

NOTE: my original point was that if Uniden could just alter the conventional system type to allow entering color code AND time slot/talkgroup for frequencies using DMR this would all be irrelevant.

I most respectfully disagree with jonwienke. DMR One Frequency systems IMHO are not efficient. I miss more transmissions using One Frequency than programming as conventional. I have both the 436 and 536, one programmed with a single One Frequency system, and the other programmed with the same system as conventional. The 436 programmed as conventional has more hits than the 536 programmed as One Frequency.

Phillipsc84, I am in agreement with you. I do not understand why Uniden could not allow TGID and Slot to be programmed conventionally.

If using a One Frequency system with a single frequency, it works much better/faster. More than one frequency per system and it gets very slow to scan. I don't believe One Frequency was created for more than a single frequency.

Per Uniden Step 5 of programming a One Frequency System "Repeat for additional frequencies (rare for DMR One-Frequency Systems)."

Rare? I have more than 15 entities using at least 4 frequencies. One is using 16. Maybe it's rare in their neck of the woods, but not in mine. I have only 2 Con+ systems in my area, everything else is conventional or the dreaded Simplex.

If you are only looking to monitor 1 TGID on a specific system, One Frequency is the way to go. Enter the single frequency, set ID Search to off. Program the TGID and Slot you want to monitor in the Department.

 

[bearcat]

Affirmative.UHF simplex DMR definitely improved with this firmware release, but IMHO and based on quite a bit of testing, VHF decode got worse. I still suspect the firmware changed sensivity on the uhf band, vs change much in the dmr decoding logic, hence the improvement. Id estimate the 436 decodes about 30-50% of what the whistler does on dmr simplex on side by side comparison tests.

I guess I forgot one other major factor. Are you using a shielded battery door? I am and if I remove the door the signals for the most part totally disappear. The shielded door reduces the noise that the 436 is generating.

 

[racingfan360]

I guess I forgot one other major factor. Are you using a shielded battery door? I am and if I remove the door the signals for the most part totally disappear. The shielded door reduces the noise that the 436 is generating.

Affirmative on that as well. I have x2 436's both 6800 series serial numbers, and both fitted with multi-layer copper foil. However, I haven't seen a massive noticeable performance improvement with it added.

 

[Phillipsc84]

I most respectfully disagree with jonwienke. DMR One Frequency systems IMHO are not efficient. I miss more transmissions using One Frequency than programming as conventional. I have both the 436 and 536, one programmed with a single One Frequency system, and the other programmed with the same system as conventional. The 436 programmed as conventional has more hits than the 536 programmed as One Frequency.



Phillipsc84, I am in agreement with you. I do not understand why Uniden could not allow TGID and Slot to be programmed conventionally.



If using a One Frequency system with a single frequency, it works much better/faster. More than one frequency per system and it gets very slow to scan. I don't believe One Frequency was created for more than a single frequency.



Per Uniden Step 5 of programming a One Frequency System "Repeat for additional frequencies (rare for DMR One-Frequency Systems)."



Rare? I have more than 15 entities using at least 4 frequencies. One is using 16. Maybe it's rare in their neck of the woods, but not in mine. I have only 2 Con+ systems in my area, everything else is conventional or the dreaded Simplex.



If you are only looking to monitor 1 TGID on a specific system, One Frequency is the way to go. Enter the single frequency, set ID Search to off. Program the TGID and Slot you want to monitor in the Department.

Well at least now I know it's not just me seeing this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bearcat]

Affirmative on that as well. I have x2 436's both 6800 series serial numbers, and both fitted with multi-layer copper foil. However, I haven't seen a massive noticeable performance improvement with it added.

Copper has shown the least improvement in the testing. An RF/EMI spray is the best, but aluminum is a very close second.

 

[sibbley]

Well at least now I know it's not just me seeing this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, I've been whining since DMR was pre released, also the bogus TGID issue that was never fixed.

 

[NM9X]

Can the 436 monitor a Connect+ trunked system control channel only or does it need all frequencies programmed?

 

[NM9X]

Can the 436 monitor a Connect+ trunked system control channel only or does it need all frequencies programmed?

The 436 needs to have all frequencies and the correct LCNs for each site to properly trunk a con+ system.

 

[UPMan]

And that is because the 436 actually trunktracks.

 

[NM9X]

And that is because the 436 actually trunktracks.

...and that is one of several reasons I left my TRX1 and bought the 436. The LCN finder works well for me. The only redeeming feature of the TRX for me (and originally why I bought it last month) is nxdn. I'll wait patiently now.

 

[genemalet]

I have the TRX-1 and the 436HP. I find that the Uniden picks up signals much better than Whistler.

I have the same channels, same antenna on both radios and the TRX-1 just doesn't hear as well.

Also programming through sentinel is much easier with the Uniden.

With that said, I haven't had much time with the Whistler, but out of the box for both of them, throwing in your zip code and listening, I have found the Uniden hears better without any edits.

 

[Drkatzjr45]

i am experiencing problems with DMR monitoring with my TRX-1....Might consider Uniden

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyYxJvWO1KY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-bMZkkUWGQ