Upcoming Encryption

[KD0NDO]

From the MN Emergency Communications Board Meeting Minutes.

Larson asked the group are there other agencies that have either short or long-term plans of doing a full encryption on their mains, whichever type of main it is?

• Wright County is going to go first of March next year.​

• Douglas County stated we are planning to encrypt our main, but for us out here we would have to wait until several counties around us have that capability as well.​

• Otter Tail County does not have any plans of encrypting mains at this time.​

• Stearns County is not aware of any plans for Stearns County to encrypt our main.​

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https://mnecb.org/AgendaCenter/ViewFile/Agenda/_09212023-931

 

[sonm10]

Definitely don't like where this is headed.

 

[HoooyaJohn]

Encrypting side channels for tactical work is necessary to be sure, but encrypting regular dispatch channels is not. Time for the state law makers to put a stop to this in the name of the public right to know.

 

[KD0FEO]

Well RIP to my feed come March.. it was a fun journey.

 

[bearcatrp]

Think Icom and Uniden saw the writing on the wall. There new handhelds coming out do not have P25. Hoooyajohn is right, time to start screaming at our elected officials about this. I have no problem police going to tac 1 encrypted to protect themselves and the operation. But to go totally encrypted is BS.

 

[egftechman]

The FBI and MNBCA have recently determined that any CJI (criminal justice information - information stored on state and federal criminal databases, like NCIC, gang files, etc.) disseminated over the radio must be encrypted, just like it has to be over data networks, so I fully all law enforcement to be encrypted in the coming years ( ref. https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/ecn/AnalyticsReports/BCA Radio Encryption Presentation - 01.24.2022.pdf )

Well RIP to my feed come March.. it was a fun journey.

Fire, EMS and other services can provide much information about what's going on, so leaving out just the encrypted LE channels isn't a total loss.

 

[KD0FEO]

Fire, EMS and other services can provide much information about what's going on, so leaving out just the encrypted LE channels isn't a total loss.

Fair enough, I didn't spend 2 years learning, buying equipment, promoting and building a listener base just to stay in the game and only broadcast "Fire/EMS" traffic which is patched to VHF anyway.

Someone else can pick up that project, I'm going to save my time and resources and call it. I started this feed with a BCD396XT handheld and not knowing what the hell I was doing, worked my way up radios throughout time and eventually got a 996XT as primary for the feed.

Just finally just learned how to use RTL-SDR to get it perfect, call petty or me whatever.. I'm throwing in the towel. Fighting simulcast for almost 2 years and finally having something full-proof and now losing it has me in a mood.

Law enforcement should have some kind of accountability from the public anyway, this is why I trust no one.

 

[wogggieee]

The FBI and MNBCA have recently determined that any CJI (criminal justice information - information stored on state and federal criminal databases, like NCIC, gang files, etc.) disseminated over the radio must be encrypted, just like it has to be over data networks, so I fully all law enforcement to be encrypted in the coming years ( ref. https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/ecn/AnalyticsReports/BCA Radio Encryption Presentation - 01.24.2022.pdf )

There's info/data channels that can be used for that purpose

 

[egftechman]

There's info/data channels that can be used for that

This is true. I think the FBI and BCA are pushing for full encryption on everything to prevent "accidental" leaks of CJI, and other privacy minded folks trying to include things like name and DOB as info that must be encrypted.... but that's going to make radio maintenance a bit more tricky and kill inter-agency comms that are not through patches (like a county unit getting a hold of a city unit on the city channel), which was the whole selling point of the massively overpriced ARMER system ($4K radios vs $400 radios) - if all inter-agency communications is through patches, nearly all the dispatch centers had that capability prior to ARMER - the Moto Centracom, Zetron, Oricom, and others dispatch consoles I worked with in the early 1990s had patching capability.
When you go back to the pre-MDT era, it was common for departments to have to dispatch channel and then channel(s) to get info on (for example, after calling in a traffic stop on dispatch channel, dispatcher would tell them to go to channel x for info)

 

[wogggieee]

With the lack of funding among departments nationwide for this policy to actually be implemented at full or even wide scale seems rather unrealistic. It more seems like the FBI handing law enforcement agencies the excuse/justification to finally do what they've always wanted.

 

[AAFC]

The FBI and MNBCA have recently determined that any CJI (criminal justice information - information stored on state and federal criminal databases, like NCIC, gang files, etc.) disseminated over the radio must be encrypted, just like it has to be over data networks, so I fully all law enforcement to be encrypted in the coming years ( ref. https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/ecn/AnalyticsReports/BCA Radio Encryption Presentation - 01.24.2022.pdf )

When did that become their decision to make? Those decisions should be made by law makers, who are voted into office by the people. And if those agencies DO indeed have that authority, then we need the law makers to REMOVE that authority from them.

The agencies mentioned were created to enforce laws, not make laws.

Bottom line, the people in our state capitol MAKE THE LAWS. They have the authority to stop this encryption right now if they wanted to. And for the record, I am not talking about 100% encryption..... All agencies can have as many encrypted talk groups as they want, I don't care..... BUT leave the dispatch MAINS open. That sounds like a damn good compromise to me. Why does it have to be ALL or NOTHING? We're talking about a setting in the software for each talk group. Turning encryption on/off for individual talk groups is as easy as changing a setting in your smartphone. The people who work in the state wide radio department can change those settings with a few clicks of a mouse. It costs tax payers NOTHING to make these changes. (to turn off encryption)

For the record, I sent emails to two of my local state law makers and both of them took well over a month to reply. My emails were fairly lengthy but they explained exactly what is going on, regardless of what the "pro encryption" folks want the law makers to believe. My emails were very civil and written in a way that even someone who knows nothing about encryption, or how digital radio systems work, could understand what I was talking about. When they finally replied to me, neither of them sounded interested in doing anything about encryption.

If others on site want to get together and make a legitimate stand against encryption, I'm willing to join the group. That's what it's going to take to be heard. Individual letters from random constituents aren't good enough, apparently.

 

[wogggieee]

Very few law makers will go against it for fear of being labeled weak on crime.

 

[dwgelle]

Meeker Law has switched this week.

 

[citiot]

In Scott County, they funded encryption with COVID money, which was clearly wrong (using Covid money for already planned capital expenses). >news article< If I did something like that in my work, I'd be charged with a crime.

"Very few law makers will go against it for fear of being labeled weak on crime." - A Scott County people-of-color (POC) non-profit did not want to comment on that article for fear of a bad relationship between POC and law-enforcement (LE). With all the distrust and defund the police movements, you'd think that an organization like that would be all over the LE secrecy.

To the people in the non-encrypted counties (that don't have plans yet), the time is NOW to get your voice heard. Not after they put in encryption. Too late at that point, because planning, funding approval have been completed for at least a couple of years. Take 5 minutes and write your commissioners, mayors, LE officials, etc. All you lose is 5 minutes of your time. (Thanks @AAFC for taking the time to do this)

<snark> if anyone replies, 'total waste of time', consider that it takes about the same time to post that than to send a note to an elected official. </snark>

I tried in Scott County >link<

 

[KD0NDO]

More info for wright county Wright County Grant Application

 

[VexingRaven]

Has anyone had any luck getting a favorable response from their representative? What sort of language/talking points did you use? I'm afraid there's not much any of us can say when the BCA and FBI are telling the local law they need to encrypt.

 

[AAFC]

Has anyone had any luck getting a favorable response from their representative? What sort of language/talking points did you use? I'm afraid there's not much any of us can say when the BCA and FBI are telling the local law they need to encrypt.

Like I mentioned before.... Those agencies ENFORCE law, they don't MAKE the laws.

Our lawmakers have the authority to stop encryption.

The problem is, most law makers are not radio nerds. They have no idea what's going on.... The only people at the state level they can ask about radio encryption just so happen to be the same people who WANT encryption. Such as local police, FBI, and BCA. (as you mentioned) The law makes are ONLY fed info that makes it sound like encryption is absolutely necessary.

 

[INDY72]

Which is why I love Sheriff Bob Fletcher in Ramsey County's view on the big E. Only for sensitive tactical/special ops/investigations, NOT for primary dispatches. And since RCSO runs one of the best Violent Crime Task Force, and the best Carjacking Auto Theft teams in the US, he knows how its done. Plus he lets the politicians hear his voice often. Makes him a few enemies, but hey, if your popular your not doing your job in LE.

 

[AAFC]

Which is why I love Sheriff Bob Fletcher in Ramsey County's view on the big E. Only for sensitive tactical/special ops/investigations, NOT for primary dispatches. And since RCSO runs one of the best Violent Crime Task Force, and the best Carjacking Auto Theft teams in the US, he knows how its done. Plus he lets the politicians hear his voice often. Makes him a few enemies, but hey, if your popular your not doing your job in LE.

I agree... Longtime backseater here.

 

[n0esc]

Can officially add Freeborn County to the list now too. They switched all traffic to 21844 Law 2 encrypted this morning, with plans to encrypt 21843 Law Main full time starting May 1st.