upcoming vacation to Florida East Coast Question about FL scanner in car law

[n1das]

If you are a licensed ham, then listen while mobile in FL using the out of ham band capabilities on your ham transceiver(s) and not on your scanner(s) so the ham federal preemption and the ham exemption in FL law applies. If what you want to listen to is using P25 digital, then it's time to upgrade your ham capabilities to include P25 equipment, with out of ham band freqs programmed as receive-only of course. Also program a power-on password and a read/write password in case a radio of yours somehow falls into the wrong hands.

http://www.arrl.org/files/file/pr91-36.pdf

 

[zlandmedia]

Like I said this so called statute is not enforceable, This cannot be implemented ask any Attorney .

Curious to why you think it's not enforceable.

 

[KO4IPV]

Curious to why you think it's not enforceable.

Show me president, of any one who has ever ben prosecuted for this so called crime , just for listening to public safety, it’s not there , maybe for transmitting yes a big yes .

 

[kittrav]

843.16 Unlawful to install or transport radio equipment using assigned frequency of state or law enforcement officers; definitions; exceptions; penalties.—
(1) A person, firm, or corporation may not install or transport in any motor vehicle or business establishment, except an emergency vehicle or crime watch vehicle as herein defined or a place established by municipal, county, state, or federal authority for governmental purposes, any frequency modulation radio receiving equipment so adjusted or tuned as to receive messages or signals on frequencies assigned by the Federal Communications Commission to police or law enforcement officers or fire rescue personnel of any city or county of the state or to the state or any of its agencies. Provided, nothing herein shall be construed to affect any radio station licensed by the Federal Communications System or to affect any recognized newspaper or news publication engaged in covering the news on a full-time basis or any alarm system contractor certified pursuant to part II of chapter 489, operating a central monitoring system.
(2) As used in this section, the term:
(a) “Emergency vehicle” shall specifically mean:
1. Any motor vehicle used by any law enforcement officer or employee of any city, any county, the state, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, or the Armed Forces of the United States while on official business;
2. Any fire department vehicle of any city or county of the state or any state fire department vehicle;
3. Any motor vehicle designated as an emergency vehicle by the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles when said vehicle is to be assigned the use of frequencies assigned to the state;
4. Any motor vehicle designated as an emergency vehicle by the sheriff or fire chief of any county in the state when said vehicle is to be assigned the use of frequencies assigned to the said county;
5. Any motor vehicle designated as an emergency vehicle by the chief of police or fire chief of any city in the state when said vehicle is to be assigned the use of frequencies assigned to the said city.
(b) “Crime watch vehicle” means any motor vehicle used by any person participating in a citizen crime watch or neighborhood watch program when such program and use are approved in writing by the appropriate sheriff or chief of police where the vehicle will be used and the vehicle is assigned the use of frequencies assigned to the county or city. Such approval shall be renewed annually.
(3) This section does not apply to the following:
(a) Any holder of a valid amateur radio operator or station license issued by the Federal Communications Commission.
(b) Any recognized newspaper or news publication engaged in covering the news on a full-time basis.
(c) Any alarm system contractor certified pursuant to part II of chapter 489, operating a central monitoring system.
(d) Any sworn law enforcement officer as defined in s. 943.10 or emergency service employee as defined in s. 496.404 while using personal transportation to and from work.
(e) An employee of a government agency that holds a valid Federal Communications Commission station license or that has a valid agreement or contract allowing access to another agency’s radio station.
(4) Any person, firm, or corporation violating any of the provisions of this section commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
History.—ss. 1-4, ch. 26886, 1951; ss. 24, 35, ch. 69-106; s. 1049, ch. 71-136; s. 1, ch. 86-55; s. 1, ch. 90-62; s. 95, ch. 2005-164; s. 1, ch. 2008-70.

[source]

(3) This section does not apply to the following:
(a) Any holder of a valid amateur radio operator or station license issued by the Federal Communications Commission.

Not a lawyer, but I interpret this to mean that anyone driving a vehicle that has radio receiving equipment that was installed by a licensed amateur radio operator is not violating the law. Otherwise, a spouse, children, extended family member or friend who is using the vehicle with permission of a licensed amateur radio operator who had installed radio equipment would be in violation.

 

[belvdr]

(3) This section does not apply to the following:
(a) Any holder of a valid amateur radio operator or station license issued by the Federal Communications Commission.

Not a lawyer, but I interpret this to mean that anyone driving a vehicle that has radio receiving equipment that was installed by a licensed amateur radio operator is not violating the law. Otherwise, a spouse, children, extended family member or friend who is using the vehicle with permission of a licensed amateur radio operator who had installed radio equipment would be in violation.

I don’t agree but I’m not a lawyer either. It doesn’t say installed by a licensed amateur radio operator. Rather it says the law doesn’t apply to a person with an amateur radio license. Additionally, the title discusses transport, not just installation.

If your logic were true, it would be legal for a ham to put a portable in the cup holder and anyone could drive and monitor. It would also mean anyone could say a ham installed it and be in the clear. That doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

 

[kittrav]

I don’t agree but I’m not a lawyer either. It doesn’t say installed by a licensed amateur radio operator. Rather it says the law doesn’t apply to a person with an amateur radio license. Additionally, the title discusses transport, not just installation.

If your logic were true, it would be legal for a ham to put a portable in the cup holder and anyone could drive and monitor. It would also mean anyone could say a ham installed it and be in the clear. That doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

Agree, my interpretation would allow me, a licensed amateur, to have a business installing radio equipment, so that the operator of the vehicle, otherwise not exempt, could claim exemption.

Sometimes, laws are not well written

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

(1) A person, firm, or corporation may not install or transport in any motor vehicle or business establishment, except ...

It is really a pretty restrictive law and likely seldom enforced. The loophole is the ham license. Glad I have mine, just for this. It appears that a GMRS license as a station license, should work as well.

In reality, unless you are chasing ambulances, a wildcat towing operation or cat burglar you will be left alone. But if you are staying in a hotel or going to Disney and arouse the suspicion of the staff, you could be spending an afternoon with the police.

 

[pb_lonny]

The hotel question is interesting, has this ever been enforced?

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

The hotel question is interesting, has this ever been enforced?

As a matter of fact, something like this has happened. Not in FL but circumstances are concerning.

CNN.com - Former 9/11 detainee files $20 million civil rights suit - Dec. 17, 2002

www.cnn.com

"Three days after the charges against Higazy were made public, an American private pilot who was staying in a room one floor below Higazy's claimed the radio. Prosecutors dropped the charges two days later, and Higazy was released from custody in mid-January. "

Abdallah Higazy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Citywide173]

(1) A person, firm, or corporation may not install or transport in any motor vehicle or business establishment, except ...

It is really a pretty restrictive law and likely seldom enforced. The loophole is the ham license. Glad I have mine, just for this. It appears that a GMRS license as a station license, should work as well.

In reality, unless you are chasing ambulances, a wildcat towing operation or cat burglar you will be left alone. But if you are staying in a hotel or going to Disney and arouse the suspicion of the staff, you could be spending an afternoon with the police.

What's wrong with chasing ambulances, or more specifically fire engines? Some of us make good money from magazines like Firehouse and JEMS.

 

[Citywide173]

Show me president, of any one who has ever ben prosecuted for this so called crime , just for listening to public safety, it’s not there , maybe for transmitting yes a big yes .

I believe you mean precedent. I would start with post 11 in this very thread.

 

[bberns22]

If you get pulled over 99.5% of cops wont' care. It's the that one, who is in a lousy mood and is giving everyone a hard time, you would have a problem with. Put the scanner in your car and enjoy your trip.

 

[soberone14]

Mobile Scanner & RADAR-Detector Laws In The US - US Scanner Laws. That is a link to the US scanner laws. If it's not listed or is green scanners are legal. I use it all the time as a truck driver and never got bothered.

 

[DJ11DLN]

If you get pulled over 99.5% of cops wont' care. It's the that one, who is in a lousy mood and is giving everyone a hard time, you would have a problem with. Put the scanner in your car and enjoy your trip.

About 15 years ago I had an encounter with one of those, not over a scanner but over my issue HT from the VFD of all things. I didn't even own an up-to-date scanner at the time. He saw the Kenwood TK-270 in the seat of my pickup at a big box store and was waiting to give me the 3rd degree over it (off duty and in civilian attire) when I came out. Even showing him my ID didn't help. It ended when the shift supervisor got there to issue the actual citation, which he declined to do. Turned out the cop was going through a divorce and stressed to the max. And because Indiana's law doesn't mention scanners, just radios able to be tuned to LE freqs, he thought he had somebody to vent a little of his angst on. The supervisor got him aside and soon sent him on his way, then apologized for me having to stand there in the wind (this was the middle of February) until it got sorted out.

The supervisor also agreed that it's pretty much of an unenforceable law, unless one just pleads guilty or has an extremely inept to the point of being asleep at the switch attorney. And several of the locals know I have scanners in my vehicles and they have no problem with it, both because they know they work for the public, and because they know I'm not going to make use of any information that comes across, other than to avoid a traffic tie-up or something of that nature.

 

[Citywide173]

Mobile Scanner & RADAR-Detector Laws In The US - US Scanner Laws. That is a link to the US scanner laws. If it's not listed or is green scanners are legal. I use it all the time as a truck driver and never got bothered.

Post #9 contained a link to the actual Florida state site with the law. I think I would trust that for accuracy over a private site when the OP specifically asked about Florida. While the law quoted doesn't look any different, their date of 2016 would make me hesitant to rely on it.

 

[soberone14]

Post #9 contained a link to the actual Florida state site with the law. I think I would trust that for accuracy over a private site when the OP specifically asked about Florida. While the law quoted doesn't look any different, their date of 2016 would make me hesitant to rely on it.

If you click on the state it is the updated rules

 

[CORN]

I cross the Florida state line quite a bit with my scanner and several handhelds in my bags. Don’t draw attention to yourself aka don’t give them a reason to pull you over and you’ll be just fine. Btw, I have NONE of the above licenses or credentials!

 

[KB4MSZ]

I had two incidents with this issue inside of a one year period. My former employment was with a commercial property ownership and management partnership here in Tampa. There where two occasions where I was commuting between properties and overheard a dispatch for an alarm system we had been having problems with. In order to see to it that the alarm system was reset (and avoid a pricey fee from our alarm carrier) I stopped at that property to reset the system. When I pulled in there was already a patrol car in the parking lot with an officer sitting inside. I parked and put down my windows and shouted to the officer that I was with the ownership group and I had the service door key to go inside and reset the system. He nodded at me and both of us got out of our cars and I headed to the door, explaining to him that the system has been giving us very erratic problems for several weeks.

At this point he asked me how I knew so quickly that the system had tripped and I told him I heard the dispatch on my amateur radio while I was very close by on the way to another property. He proceeded to inform me that having that type of radio in my vehicle was unlawful. After several minutes of explaining to him what the statute says he got on his cell phone and talked to someone for about 10 minutes, then came back and told me it wouldn't be a problem "this time", but that "we would prefer you didn't have police radio equipment in your vehicle". I found it interesting that his looking into the matter was done by cell phone rather than by calling in on his radio. A similar but less involved occurrence happened at another property when we had a small fire in a storage unit. It's interesting how they know the statute regarding having such equipment is unlawful, but do not read the bottom half of the same page to know the exemptions from the restrictions.

 

[TEH]

Some people might not have been cited, because the cops they encountered might not be aware of the details of this law. Other officers might not bother to enforce it. But you might encounter an officer very eager to enforce it. As the statute says, installing or transporting in a vehicle a radio capable of receiving law or fire comms is a crime. I have direct knowledge of 2 people caught for having scanners in their vehicles. If you get caught, be prepared to temporarily or permanently lose the radio or radios in your vehicle at the time of the violation, and be prepared for the fines, court costs, legal fees, an arrest record, spending a lot of time dealing with the mess, and the other consequences. You might or you might not get your radio returned.