US Wildland Fire Authority

[HappilyRetired]

While listening to the news Friday evening, I heard that the OCFA Chief is leaving to head the new U.S. Wildland Fire Authority. I haven’t been able to find much information on it yet, other than it appears to fall under the USDA. The story mentioned this in the context of OCFA not renewing the Chinook multi-county resource.

I’m curious whether this new authority will supplement existing Type 1 and Type 2 incident management teams, or if it’s intended to replace them—purely speculation on my part. I'm the next cop, another fireman and I'm still trying to learn the process. I only know the type one and type 2 from my ICS training.

I’m also wondering about communications. Will they have dedicated frequencies, or will they operate on existing interagency cache frequencies tied to each incident? And from a radio standpoint, are they expected to use P25, or has the Forest Service largely moved away from P25 for wildland fire operations?

I’m certainly no expert—just connecting a few dots I’ve picked up over time. Where I live it’s CAL FIRE country, with flashy one-hour fuels that run hard and fast.
Any insight would be appreciated. I did search the forums first but came up empty.

 

[es93546]

The existing system is about the most integrated interagency coordinated system in the federal government. Not only that state and local fire agencies are integrated as well. The use of the Incident Command System (ICS) will not change. I don't see a lot of change in how command teams function, they are a major part of the ICS. The existing "NIFC System" of radio frequencies won't change. They are some of the only nationwide authorized frequencies available. They are also structured to meet the needs of ICS organizations. They are already a pool of frequencies assigned to the USFS, BLM, NPS and USFWS (U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service). One organization that will change is the Agriculture aircraft organization will be merged with the Interior organization.

What would help more than this new agency is to move the U.S. Forest Service into the Department of the Interior. There are a ton of reasons to do so, but conservatives see it as a threat to timber harvest. I won't say more on this subject, other than to say having worked for the U.S. Forest Service for a career and having followed the agency prior to and after my career I can see no reason not to make this move other than a lot of people who just don't want to change.

I'm concerned that at the field level that this new organization won't integrate well with the other resources of the agencies. As an example, how recreation affects wildland fire management. The new agency needs to integrate well with local non-fire resources and not be some top down effort. In many cases the BLM and the USFS have already combined organizations at the National Forest/BLM District and Field Office levels. I don't think any of the people mentioned, the President, the new head of this new agency and the Secretaries of Agriculture and Interior know enough about the wildland fire programs of the agencies involved. They probably have no idea how much the National Interagency Fire Center is already combining and coordinating emergency management nationwide. Not just wildland fire either, all risk emergency management. I am also concerned that the local organization, headed by District Rangers (USFS), Field Office Managers/District Managers (BLM), Refuge/Project Managers (USFWS), all of which share one principal. The local level relationship with the public. Those levels need to be able to supervise and manage the fire organization. I'm concerned that the public will be told there is nothing the local line officer can say or do to influence the actions of this new organization.

I don't know how to explain this well as at the age of 78 and with a couple of influential brain injuries I'm just not as articulate as I used to be.

 

[BC_Scan]

I don't know how to explain this well as at the age of 78 and with a couple of influential brain injuries I'm just not as articulate as I used to be.

Sir with all due respect, you are on point as i have ever read on here, I'm not even invested in this thread as its well out of my listening range however those on here that articulate with common sense and reasoned viewpoints is why I try to learn from the best . There are many people on here that take the time to consider proper spelling, grammar, syntax etc and other sensible questions instead of silliness. I applaud you and hope you continue to share your reasoned replies. Regards

 

[HappilyRetired]

I don't know how to quote es93546 in his voluminous information. But it did not directly address my question. It was opinion. But that's okay because subsequent investigation reveals that he got his wish. The new US Wildland Fire Service (USWFS) Chief has been named as the Brian Fennessy, outgoing Chief of the Orange County Fire Authority (OCFA) in Southern California. Fennessy has nearly 50 years of fire experience.

The U.S. Department of the Interior (DOI), which is leading the creation of the USWFS, has press releases and news about the planned service on its site:

Press releases related to wildland fire and wildfire management: Press Releases | U.S. Department of the Interior

News about wildland fire programs — News | U.S. Department of the Interior

It looks like we got there after all. As one familiar with operating under Unified Command of ICS, it will be interesting to listen to a major fire that unfortunately lay months ahead and how all resources are managed by one agency.

Thank you es93646.

 

[p1879]

Here is an informative article that may be of interest:

(BTW, I am not into the politics of the issue, just knowledge)

Hope—and Many Fears—Follow in the Wake of Trump's Plan to Transform Wildland Firefighting - Inside Climate News

The Departments of Interior and Agriculture announced a new U.S. Wildland Fire Service. But layoffs, confusion and budget cuts have sparked doubts.

insideclimatenews.org

Things have moved on some since that article came out a couple of weeks ago.

 

[HappilyRetired]

That's an interesting read. I think the politics are being thrown in there to mock up what sounds like changes that have been needed for decades. It was echoed at the very beginning of this discussion by es93546 that this needed to transition to the Department of interior. He nailed it dead on. He's a retired firefighter.

I can speak to working for a large bureaucracy within a larger bureaucracy. Heaven forbid I had to work for Karen Bass. I don't read this this change for change sake but rather a plan that is being detailed by the professionals to create a cohesive organization that pulls all resources under one umbrella. When the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing but one of them calls on the other one for help, that's when there can be problems.

What I read is people that are afraid that they're going to lose their jobs and that there isn't going to be any fire prevention. That wasn't written or voiced by president Trump. He cast Secretary of the Interior Doug Burgum to make it happen. Like any CEO, Trump doesn't sit at the top barking out orders for things he has no knowledge of. From everything I've heard he listens intently and then he makes decisions accordingly. We don't need to bring politics into this.

I want to know that when the hillsides catch fire as they do every year that all its going to take is a call to the tanker base and they're in the air. As it stands there's usually Cal Fire aircraft floating in Lake Elsinore ready for the task.

I think there's too much speculation on politics involved here. I don't know him, but they've picked a chief with 50 years of General firefighting as well as Wildland firefighting. For what I know the OCFA is top-notch. Let's go with that. Somebody that knows how to Marshall resources together for the benefit of the people they serve.

Thank you to those that have helped me learn of this new agency. Let's hope for the best and prepare for the worst. There are going to be bumps in the road that have to be worked out. Fire season never ends anymore in southern California.

 

[k7ng]

What would help more than this new agency is to move the U.S. Forest Service into the Department of the Interior. There are a ton of reasons to do so, but conservatives see it as a threat to timber harvest. I won't say more on this subject, other than to say having worked for the U.S. Forest Service for a career and having followed the agency prior to and after my career I can see no reason not to make this move other than a lot of people who just don't want to change.

BRAVO!
(I'm a retired Federal employee who worked in resource management). I brought up the idea of merging USFS into DOI (BLM, actually) because they have virtually the same job, as a cost-saving suggestion, back in the 2010 era when we were solicited for cost cutting ideas. I received a telephone call from a person at fairly high level (and I will not name that person or their gender) who told me to shut up and never bring such an idea up ever again, or else.

There are few reasons NOT to do such a merger, and many reasons to do it. The worker bees probably wouldn't have anything to fear, but the upper management and executive levels would.

 

[es93546]

I'm concerned that this is a top down effort, organized by people who don't know much of anything about natural resource management. Remember in the first Trump administration when he criticized natural resource agencies for not "raking" the forest floors. It left most of us wondering where he got that idea. This Fire Service is definitely not a ground level up proposal. Under such circumstances I hope they aren't building a "stovepipe," i.e. an organization that is independent, separate and does not work well with the agencies (NPS, USFS, BLM, USFWS, BIA). Stovepipe organizations may relate and communicate in their own organization levels but not with outside organizations. They need to realize who they are working for and that is the federal public land agencies, not just themselves. They need to integrate well with the various land units (Parks; USFS Regions, National Forests and their Ranger Districts; BLM State Offices, Districts and Field Offices, USFWS Regions, Refuges and Fire Districts; and BIA Agencies). This involves sharing authorities and that does not come naturally.

One thing that needs to happen and this might work better with a separate fire agency, pay has to be on par with state, county and municipal agencies. The Forest Service illustrates the pay problem in fire. People get a job in that agency, sometimes with minimal competition, get trained and gain fire qualifications and then quit after 5 years or so, maybe less and then apply to state forestry agencies and counties because the pay is better. The Forest Service is experiencing 30-40% vacancy rates in fire staffing.

It seems backwards, this applying to fire and natural resource management personnel alike, but the municipal agencies pay more than the counties, the states pay a little less than the counties and the federal government pays the lowest of all of them. I stayed with the feds because I could transfer all around the country to see how "the other half" lived. The feds will move you and pay some real estate costs to boot. It's a little harder to do that if you work for a state or local agency. The feds also allow you to stay in their health insurance system after retirement and that can make a big difference.

 

[es93546]

That's an interesting read. I think the politics are being thrown in there to mock up what sounds like changes that have been needed for decades. It was echoed at the very beginning of this discussion by es93546 that this needed to transition to the Department of interior. He nailed it dead on. He's a retired firefighter.

I only worked in fire management full time for the first four years of my career. I stayed involved in fire fighting by being a part of the "militia," which is made up of employees from all the other functions or resource areas of the agency (timber, range, recreation, wildlife, lands, maintenance, etc.) who attend training and then work their way through training assignments to become qualified for one or more of the 150-200 ICS positions. I ended up with 108 fire assignments and several non-emergency ICS managed situations. I spent 32 days on the Yellowstone Fires in 1988 as a crew boss of a military crew from Fort Lewis, Washington. I worked about 10 fire assignments on southern California conflagration type situations, on the line as a squad boss and then later as a crew boss, as a public information officer and in the plans organization. Interesting stuff!

 

[HappilyRetired]

I only worked in fire management full time for the first four years of my career. I stayed involved in fire fighting by being a part of the "militia," which is made up of employees from all the other functions or resource areas of the agency (timber, range, recreation, wildlife, lands, maintenance, etc.) who attend training and then work their way through training assignments to become qualified for one or more of the 150-200 ICS positions.

Thank you for clarifying what your role was. I will say that it scares me when people minimize their contribution to an overall team event. I'm trained all the way to ICS 400. Granted mine is in law enforcement but we did get some training and firefighting. We had to get s130/s 190 because we could be at an ICP that suddenly was being overrun by a fire. We had to be able to pick up a hose and defend ourselves regardless of the rank on our collar.

I could see immediately that your desire that the USFS be moved into the DOI had been met. People are already questioning the head of this new agency without respecting that chief Brian Fennessy started with the usfs and has over 50 years experience including running one of the most sophisticated California firefighting agencies in the state, the Orange County Fire authority. For such a small County I see them as really having their act together. There will be those that will disagree with me and try to point me straight but there's no need. The man comes with an excellent pedigree. It's a shame that they're already trying to tear him down. This is the dysfunctional side of the US government. Probably in this case by people who want his job but didn't get it. As one that lives in an urban interface somewhat overlooking Lake Elsinore but I know it's covered by Cal fire, we do have the Cleveland National Forest on the other side and I do enjoy listening to them. I have done some good hiking over there instead of driving all the way up to the San Bernardino. It'll be interesting to see what kind of subtle changes there are. I don't think radio frequencies will change. But I think they will be redefined. That's just an outsider looking in.

 

[p1879]

Latest word is the new organization is just DOI agencies, and not USFS.

US Wildland Fire Service launched, despite lack of funding and without majority of nation’s firefighting resources – Wildfire Today

wildfiretoday.com

 

[es93546]

Latest word is the new organization is just DOI agencies, and not USFS.

US Wildland Fire Service launched, despite lack of funding and without majority of nation’s firefighting resources – Wildfire Today

wildfiretoday.com

Wow, this is a major development. Here we were all assuming the U.S. Forest Service would be part of this new firefighting organization. Now the BLM will be the major part of this organization. To me, this shows how much the USFS should be in the Department of the Interior. If the new fire service gets better wages, this will decimate the USFS's organization. The USFS might end up with the lowest pay of all the agencies and this will further erode moral and employee retention, which is already in real poor shape.