USB rant

[MUTNAV]

Ok.... I was just looking again at the specs for the micro c connector.

What Is USB-C? Here's Why You Want USB Type-C

One port to rule them all.

www.howtogeek.com

and I think it's great they're trying to standardize a little, but the one question they didn't answer is if the
micro-C or USB-C connector is that if they really can support up to 240 watts, and if they stick with the 5.5 volt standard, doesn't that mean about 40 amps over a relatively small connector.

However, I jsut saw info

What is the power output of a USB port?

As the title says, what's the power output of a USB port? Is it a standard value, or it may change depending on manufacturer/model, and so on? If that value is not standard, how can one determin...

superuser.com

saying a USB -C port can work up to 20 volts, which to me means that just because the connector fits, doesn't mean it wont blow up your device.

So, if I understand it correctly (and I may not), the connection is standardized, but the voltage levels are now not the
same?



Thanks
Joel

 

[MUTNAV]

I don't think the cables are any different.

I primarily use a Mac laptop. That has USB-C for everything, including charging the laptop. It negotiates power no problem no matter what cable I use.
For quite a while, I used a Sonim XP8 phone that had USB-C. Same thing, would negotiate power, no special cable.

in the ever reliable Wikipedia, it's mentioned that there are cables that are "electrically marked"

USB hardware - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A (>60 W) operation requires an electronically marked cable rated at 5 A.

>20 V (>60 W) operation requires an electronically marked Extended Power Range (EPR) cable.

I'm guessing the electronically marked cable helps with the negotiation.

Thanks
Joel

 

[mmckenna]

I'm guessing the electronically marked cable helps with the negotiation.

Makes sense. I guess I've been fortunate to always end up with the higher rated cables. Like I said, benefit of not buying charges/cables at gas stations.

 

[MUTNAV]

Makes sense. I guess I've been fortunate to always end up with the higher rated cables. Like I said, benefit of not buying charges/cables at gas stations.

what I meant was that just because your laptop charger cable can fit in your cellphone, based on identical connectors, doesn't mean it should, (and the opposite) if the laptop P.S. can provide 20 volts, unless there is a protocol going on (with all devices?) that I don't know about.

I don't like it when I start to look into something and it gets MORE confusing....

Thanks
Joel

 

[mmckenna]

unless there is a protocol going on (with all devices?) that I don't know about.

Pretty sure there is, but I don't know anything about it. My Mac charger has a USB-c connector and I'm pretty sure it runs at that 20v you mentioned. I've had no issues plugging my old Android phone into it, or my iPhone, or anything else I've tried so far.

 

[MUTNAV]

Pretty sure there is, but I don't know anything about it. My Mac charger has a USB-c connector and I'm pretty sure it runs at that 20v you mentioned. I've had no issues plugging my old Android phone into it, or my iPhone, or anything else I've tried so far.

Thanks... That's very helpful.
Joel

 

[mmckenna]

Thanks... That's very helpful.
Joel

Yeah, nothing has exploded, burned, heated up, failed, or given any other indication that it was unhappy.

 

[MUTNAV]

Yeah, nothing has exploded, burned, heated up, failed, or given any other indication that it was unhappy.

Another question, can you charge the laptop with the cell phone charger (boost converter in the laptop)?

Thanks

 

[mmckenna]

Another question, can you charge the laptop with the cell phone charger (boost converter in the laptop)?

Thanks

I don't think so.

 

[krokus]

Ok.... I was just looking again at the specs for the micro c connector.

What Is USB-C? Here's Why You Want USB Type-C

One port to rule them all.

www.howtogeek.com

and I think it's great they're trying to standardize a little, but the one question they didn't answer is if the
micro-C or USB-C connector is that if they really can support up to 240 watts, and if they stick with the 5.5 volt standard, doesn't that mean about 40 amps over a relatively small connector.

However, I jsut saw info

What is the power output of a USB port?

As the title says, what's the power output of a USB port? Is it a standard value, or it may change depending on manufacturer/model, and so on? If that value is not standard, how can one determin...

superuser.com

saying a USB -C port can work up to 20 volts, which to me means that just because the connector fits, doesn't mean it wont blow up your device.

So, if I understand it correctly (and I may not), the connection is standardized, but the voltage levels are now not the
same?



Thanks
Joel

There is a protocol for anything beyond the original 5V being applied. My Samsung "fast" phone chargers can put out 9V @ 1.7A, but there is a handshake between the charger and the phone, before the fast mode is enabled. The same would apply to the other faster modes.

 

[mmckenna]

but there is a handshake between the charger and the phone, before the fast mode is enabled.

That's what I'd imagine. If the device doesn't handshake, the charger just provides the standard 5vdc and everyone is happy.

 

[DisconeDave]

I just wish all USB would work to the spec speed. I'm transfering some mp3's to my new player and it's going at 2 mb/s on USB 3.0! The last time I saw close to spec speeds was Win XP SP2....

 

[MUTNAV]

I was/am a little concerned about the connectors, the specs say something like 224 watts at 20 (or 30) volts. That would put a lot of current through a really small connector, hopefully they are also looking at thermal characteristics when designing this part of the equipment also.

Thanks
Joel

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

I was/am a little concerned about the connectors, the specs say something like 224 watts at 20 (or 30) volts. That would put a lot of current through a really small connector, hopefully they are also looking at thermal characteristics when designing this part of the equipment also.

Thanks
Joel

I think there is a race to the bottom on electronic standards. There seems to be little thought into reliability and safety of consumer goods. Just a race to make stuff cheaper, do more "shiny stuff" and last a shorter length of time.

 

[BinaryMode]

I just wish all USB would work to the spec speed. I'm transfering some mp3's to my new player and it's going at 2 mb/s on USB 3.0! The last time I saw close to spec speeds was Win XP SP2....

If your computer has 3.1 Gen 2 use that. It may be in the form of a USB C connector. The one thing that slows USB down is small individual files. If you have say one large 500 MB file it'll transfer faster. But small files take a long time. I don't remember why that was.

Here's some more USB BS.

You have an official release name and a marketing name. https://www.silverstonetek.com/en/tech-talk/wh_USB_explained

I have one of these and can now clone my 2 TB internal NVMe hard drive to another NVMe hard drive of the same size in about 3.5 hours. Prior to that it would take at least 10 hours to clone with a SATA 2 TB platter hard drive. I use Clonezilla (Not in any way shape or form related to Mozilla).

 

[enine]

I've only had micro B break, mini B and C seem to be much sturdier. The micro on my 3d printer is broken currently. I need to pull the board out and adapt it to a C.

 

[BinaryMode]

At this rate one could use the cumulative and associative property of valuables A though C to predict the USB Implementers Forum's next USB standard. And 10 cookies it STILL won't make any sense.

 

[jazzboypro]

f your computer has 3.1 Gen 2 use that. It may be in the form of a USB C connector. The one thing that slows USB down is small individual files. If you have say one large 500 MB file it'll transfer faster. But small files take a long time. I don't remember why that was.

Files are not necessarily contiguous on a drive. Each file has to be found before being copied/moved. Over hundreds/thousands of files it shows. For each file being copied/moved 2 handles need to be open, files gets copied/moved, an entry as to be made in the drive directory and then both handles are closed. Repeat the process over thousands of files and we see why it takes a lot of time. If you have one large file those operation are being done once. The same goes for backup software.

 

[wtp]

this one might have it covered.

 

[DisconeDave]

Well I can remember that on XP SP2 usb transfers were fast (200mb/sec) on usb2. Then SP3 came out and they were 10x slower (20mb/sec) and they seem to have gotten slower ever since. USB 3.9 only goes 20kb/sec or something like that...

Your computer runs at 4Ghz so to open 10000 handles takes less than a second so how come to copy 100mb it takes minutes?