Using Commercial Radios for Marine VHF

[RKG]

Also marine radios are required to monitor Channel 16 at all times. I don't know if commercial radios could do this.

Not true.

 

[RKG]

True about Channel 16. Hailing should be done on 9 if at all possible, but people get forgetful, or just never bother to read the rules.

Modifying amateur equipment for VHF marine is not a proper way of doing it, but that isn't what the OP was talking about. He is talking about using a commercial VHF transceiver. That is legal if the radio has part 80 acceptance, which many do. This gives you the legal ability to do other things with the radio, including using it for Part 90 use and amateur radio use. While it is certainly not the cheapest way of getting a marine VHF radio, it does certainly allow one radio to fill many roles, which is a cost savings. If the OP was asking for the cheapest way to acquire a VHF marine radio, you would be correct.

If, in fact, one does read the rules, one will find nothing about using 9FM for hailing, and nothing that precludes use of 16FM for routine hailing. At one time, there was a program urging (but not requiring) that 9FM be used for recreational hailing as a voluntary matter, but it was later abandoned.

 

[lep]

Lep, you must be thinking about the identical looking HF transceiver M600 that was companion to the M500 and M500D. Great little radio, fully restorable to LSB and general coverage, but it's weak point was the vco trimmer caps. They should be replaced ASAP if the haven't been. Those too were type accepted in the states outside of the marine bands and could be used for most any other HF application. The state purchased several of them for the old Operation Secure state HF EOC network for some of the smaller EOC's after having too many problems with the SGC-2000's. Much more economical then the TWC-100 that were also in use and easier to use for untrained personel. We modified several as well as the M800 for the early MCI Mail using propritary clover ISA pc boards and for a variant of Pactor II called Pinoak Digital back then for marine in the aftermath of ATT pulling the plug on their HF marine operator. .

Actually I did make a mistake in the number of the radio. After getting your message I just pulled the manual down from my bookshelf: it is the "ICOM M700-TY" HF Transceiver. In the demo in Rome it was being used with an SCS special Pactor modem in a data network through out the Med and north African states.

I now use it only on voice as the special modem has been returned to the UN and I did not have an authorization for that mode as it was not documented.

Thanks for bringing back these memories.

 

[WB4CS]

Originally Posted by W8RMH
Also marine radios are required to monitor Channel 16 at all times. I don't know if commercial radios could do this.

Not true.

I was under the impression that boats any vessel equipped with a VHF marine radiotelephone must maintain a watch on channel 16 (156.800 MHz) whenever the radiotelephone is not being used to communicate.

Please see this site for more information.

Not true, Please quote rule requiring

Here you go.
Per 80.148:

§ 80.148 Watch on 156.8 MHz (Channel 16).

Each compulsory vessel, while underway, must maintain a watch for radiotelephone distress calls on 156.800 MHz whenever such station is not being used for exchanging communications. For GMDSS ships, 156.525 MHz is the calling frequency for distress, safety, and general communications using digital selective calling and the watch on 156.800 MHz is provided so that ships not fitted with DSC will be able to call GMDSS ships, thus providing a link between GMDSS and non-GMDSS compliant ships. The watch on 156.800 MHz is not required:

(a) Where a ship station is operating only with handheld bridge-to-bridge VHF radio equipment under § 80.143(c) of this part; or

(b) For vessels subject to the Bridge-to-Bridge Act and participating in a Vessel Traffic Service (VTS) system when the watch is maintained on both the bridge-to-bridge frequency and a separately assigned VTS frequency.

[51 FR 31213, Sept. 2, 1986, as amended at 58 FR 16504, Mar. 29, 1993; 68 FR 46962, Aug. 7, 2003; 73 FR 4480, Jan. 25, 2008; 76 FR 67611, Nov. 2, 2011]

 

[mmckenna]

Key word there is "compulsory vessel". Not every vessel is required to be equipped with a VHF radio (although they should be).

If a vessel is not required to have a VHF radio, they are not required to maintain a watch on channel 16.

 

[WB4CS]

Key word there is "compulsory vessel". Not every vessel is required to be equipped with a VHF radio (although they should be).

If a vessel is not required to have a VHF radio, they are not required to maintain a watch on channel 16.

After diving deeper into the Part 80 rules, you're correct that I quoted the rule for compulsory vessels. There's also a rule for voluntary radio vessels. Sorry about that, I'm not well versed in Part 80

§ 80.1153 Station log and radio watches.

(a) Licensees of voluntary ships are not required to maintain radio station logs.

(b) When a ship radio station of a voluntary ship is being operated, the appropriate general purpose watches must be maintained in accordance with §§ 80.147 and 80.310.

[73 FR 4492, Jan. 25, 2008]


§ 80.310 Watch required by voluntary vessels.

Voluntary vessels not equipped with DSC must maintain a watch on 2182 kHz and on 156.800 MHz (Channel 16) whenever the vessel is underway and the radio is not being used to communicate. Noncommercial vessels, such as recreational boats, may alternatively maintain a watch on 156.450 MHz (Channel 9) in lieu of VHF Channel 16 for call and reply purposes. Voluntary vessels equipped with VHF-DSC equipment must maintain a watch on 2182 kHz and on either 156.525 MHz (Channel 70) or VHF Channel 16 aurally whenever the vessel is underway and the radio is not being used to communicate. Voluntary vessels equipped with MF-HF DSC equipment must have the radio turned on and set to an appropriate DSC distress calling channel or one of the radiotelephone distress channels whenever the vessel is underway and the radio is not being used to communicate. Voluntary vessels equipped with a GMDSS-approved Inmarsat system must have the unit turned on and set to receive calls whenever the vessel is underway and the radio is not being used to communicate.
[76 FR 67612, Nov. 2, 2011]

 

[mmckenna]

After a few years in the Coast Guard, and a lot of time on the water recreationally, I strongly agree with the idea that -everyone- should monitor channel 16, including recreational craft, as 80.310 says. Unfortunately getting the average Joe to do anything is near impossible, never mind actually knowing how to operate a radio. Most average people don't know the difference between VHF Marine, CB, FRS or what the police use. To them a radio is a radio. They can't comprehend why when they put their CB on channel 9 they can't talk to a VHF marine radio on channel 9.

Intelligence can't be mandated, and you can't (unfortunately) outlaw stupidity.

 

[RKG]

I was under the impression that boats any vessel equipped with a VHF marine radiotelephone must maintain a watch on channel 16 (156.800 MHz) whenever the radiotelephone is not being used to communicate.

Please see this site for more information.



Here you go.
Per 80.148:

The key here is "mandatory" vessels.

At one time, all licensed vessels were required to maintain a watch on all or any of: 500 KHz CW, 2182 KHz USB and 16 FM. That was repealed some years ago.

As a practical matter, any well handled vessel operating in near coastal waters will maintain a watch on both 13FM and 16FM. Vessels operating in a VTS, will also maintain a watch on the VTS channel.

 

[WB4CS]

The key here is "mandatory" vessels.

See post #27, there's also a rule for voluntary vessels. Rule 80.310.

I haven't been on a boat in years so I don't have much of a dog in this fight, but since a few people asked what the rule was for watching CH 16 this is the info I found.

 

[rapidcharger]

Radio broke.
Watch for finger.

 

[Darth_vader]

I could definitely see that as a bumper sticker on a semi!

 

[fdscan]

Not to bump this thread, but I thought I'd pitch in a little bit after what I saw today...

I was helping out at a pretty big local dock today and while we were there the CG was towing in this guy who was taking on water. First off, let me say... Those stainless steel boats look TINY in pictures, but in real life... I was amazed at how big this thing was! Pretty wild boat.

I looked around it and looked through the windows inside of it to check out the electronics and what not. Turns out, as one of the first posters in this thread mentioned, XTL5000's were the primary radios. Dual head, one at each station.

 

[bryan_herbert]

One thing that was not discussed in this thread is radio housing.

Commercial radios might be Part 80 certified however, commercial mobiles tend to have vented, non-rubberized, steel cabinets which if left exposed to salt air or salt water will shorten the lifespan of the radio by years.

Dedicated marine radios generally have plastic enclosures with rubber seals to prevent such issues. The last thing you need in an emergency is for the radio to short out because the innards corroded from constant exposure to salt air and high humidity.

 

[ecps92]

CG's primary system is a P25 VHF/UHF with Freqs assigned by the NTIA not the FCC

Not to bump this thread, but I thought I'd pitch in a little bit after what I saw today...

I was helping out at a pretty big local dock today and while we were there the CG was towing in this guy who was taking on water. First off, let me say... Those stainless steel boats look TINY in pictures, but in real life... I was amazed at how big this thing was! Pretty wild boat.

I looked around it and looked through the windows inside of it to check out the electronics and what not. Turns out, as one of the first posters in this thread mentioned, XTL5000's were the primary radios. Dual head, one at each station.

 

[JASII]

Icom IC-M88 VHF Marine Transceiver

I was about to suggest the Icom M-88, but then I realized that it will only has 22 programmable channels reserved for land use (146–174MHz). That might not be enough for many end users.


IC-M88 VHF Marine Transceiver - Features - Icom America

 

[PACNWDude]

Maritime business using Motorola radios on Marine VHF.

Details have been addressed on here in other posts, but the company I work for is fully legal and authorized to use Part 80 radios for VHF Marine channels. Some of the channels need to be able to TX at 1 watt output. And being close to Canada has some different issues.

But we have used the following radios for this purpose: XTL/XTS series, PR1500,Harris Unity, and Yaesu FTH-2070/Vertex Duo.

The big problem recently with narrow banding in the US, is that you must get an "Entitlement ID" or flash code on some Motorola radios to allow for 25kHz channels on the radios. Some newer version of CPS force everything to 12.5kHz. So some coordination with Motorola was needed at first.

The Harris Unity radios, did not require any of this. The Vertex Due and Yaesu FTH-2070's went away at that point.

MotoTrbo radios have been in use recently, and an EID is added to the CPS to allow for marine channel use.

 

[poltergeisty]

The feds use /\/\otorola radios...

 

[wa1nic]

Part 90 radios on Marine Band

Here is some info regarding, among other things, using part 90 radios on the Marine Band....

http://rdept.cgaux.org/documents/Comms/VHFRadioFacilityRequirements.pdf

Rick

-----

In case the link ever disappears, I copied the entire document and pasted it below (much harder to read though).
___


US Coast Guard Auxiliary
National
Department
of
Response
Telecommunications
Division
UNCLASSIFIED
VHF Radio Facility Requirements
Radio facilities have specific technical requirements that must be met in order to be accepted as federal
emitters. This
document
provides some
information
to assist members with radio facility q
uestions and
issues.
All radio facility owners are urged to
carefully
read the current
Auxiliary Operations Policy Manual
with
emphasis on Annex 4. T
he use of out of date inf
ormation is often the cau
se for
confusion.
This
information is current as of the revision date below.
Radio Equipment Policy
In addition to meeting
Auxiliary Operations Poli
cy Manual COMDTINST 16798.3(series)
, requirements,
Auxiliary radio equipment must meet Coast Guard Spectrum Management policy, which in turn is driven
by federal government requirements set by the National Telecommunications and Information
Administration
(
NTIA
). Aviation facilities are more complex as they also involve airframe and FAA
requirements, and are not covered here.
Acceptable VHF Marine Radios
Most facilities (OPFACS) have at least one FCC “Part 80” mari
ne VHF radio (
47 CFR, 80
type accepted).
However, according to USCG policy, certain other FCC “Part 90” radios may be used on Auxiliary marine
frequencies if they meet technical s
tandards for emission, frequency, and power (starting with
47 CFR 90
type acceptance). In particular,
policy requires limiting output power on marine frequencies to a maximum
of 2
5 watts.
Many “Part 90” radios
have excess power capability: I
t is the responsibility of the equipment
programmer/facility owner/facility operator to adhere to policy
requirements
.
Facilities might choose to have a valid “Part 90” radio for marine VHF freq
uencies because the same
radio would include coverage for non
-
marine VHF frequencies, allowing a single radio to meet many
needs.
Note that marine and non
-
marine frequencies
may be
far enough apart in the spectrum to make a
single efficient antenna
ineffec
tive
. Also realize that
such radios sacrifice
the advantage of the MMSI
features found on marine radios.
A
mateur radio 2 meter VHF radios are
not
acceptable for use on Auxiliary
-
authorized marine or non
-
marine VHF frequencies,
irrespective
of technical cap
abilities. Facilities will no longer be accepted where
amateur radio 2 meter VHF radios are used for Auxiliary
-
authorized marine or non
-
marine VHF
frequen
cies
.
Maritime Mobile Service Identities (MMSI)
Marine VHF radios with
Digital Selective Calling
(DSC)
and
GMDSS
features aboard surface facilities
should have a civilian
-
requested
Maritime Mobile Service Identity
(MMSI)
number
. These are available
without license (free) from
BOAT/US
and other
commercial sources
or with license ($$) from the
FCC
(form 605 with payment
). One
MMSI
number applies to all radios aboard a vessel.
Note that the “Part 90”
radios referred to above do not have the capability for DSC.
Marine VHF radios on unit
-
owned vessels, on aircraft
, at fixed land radio facilities, or in land mobile radio
facilities are not authorized to have civilian MMSI numbers. Contact the national DVC
-
RT through the
DSO
-
CM for current information on MMSI assignment to these other t
ypes of facilities.
Nationa
l Response Department
-
Telecommunications
Division
U
N
CLASSIFIED
Page
2
of
2
Acceptable
VHF Non
-
Marine Radios
Most manufacturers of “commercial mobile” or “Part 90” (
47 CFR 90
) VHF radios meet technical
requirements. Make sure these radios are certified by the manu
facturer to be operated from 136
-
174 MHz
LMR, as all Auxiliary non
-
marine VHF frequencies are below 151 MHz (some are below 144 MHz).
Radios with more than 50 watts of output power require formal Coast Guard Spectrum Management
location coordination.
Note
that any “Part 90” type accepted radio must be programmed in advance
of operation
. B
y FCC
regulation they cannot be changed beyond their pre
-
programmed frequencies
except by an appropriately
licensed technician
.
To remain in compliance with FCC regulations
, m
ost manufacturers
will not sell
programming software and programming cables to
unlicensed
individuals.
Non
-
Marine VHF Frequencies
Only narrowband (12.5 KHz bandwidth) FM emissions may be used, and only FCC narrowband Type
Accepted “Part 90” radios may
be used on the non
-
marine VHF frequencies (
47 CFR 90
). The
Auxiliary
Operations Policy Manual
ha
s a list of authorized frequencies.
T
he 143.28MHz frequency is no longer
authorized for any usage.
Handheld Radios for Radio Facilities
Handheld radios will not be accepted as the primary radio for
fixed land facilities
or
transportable
facilities.
Per
the
Operations Policy Manual COMDTINST M16798.3E
:
(
emphasis
added)
A.2.b “A
land mobile
facility is radio equipment that an Auxiliarist can operate while in motion
(e.g., in a vehicle, walking, etc.) It may be installed in a vehicle or portable”.
A.2.d
. “
Portable
radios
are radios that an Auxiliarist can hand
-
carry and operate by means of a
self contained antenna and power source”. When used on an Operational Facility the Auxiliarist
must use the facility’s callsign, and have permission of the Coxswain/
Pilot.
Portable radios
will
only
be accepted
as the primary radio for
fixed land
or
transportable facilities
if
the
Director determines a portable radio is appropriate for
mission. A
dditional antenna, power, or other
capabilities
may be required.
It
is
strongly recommended that hand held radios should only be accepted as the primary facility radio if
there is
means to power
it
from, or
charge it’s batteries from
,
a
vehicle
(
or other
)
power system, in
addition to
its
internal batteries
. An
appropriate ex
ternal (to the vehicle) antenna is
highly
recommended.
It is
recommended
that
vehicle
-
based
land mobile
radio facility equipment include a 25 watt marine/50
watt non
-
marine
,
fixed mount
,
VHF radio with an external antenna.
Encryption
The
Coast Guard
may p
rovide Coast Guard
owned
encrypted
radios
to be
used
by Auxiliarists
for a
specific task
. In such cases, the Auxiliarist will be required to follow all security policies as specified by
the Coast Guard.
Gary G. Young, BC
-
RT
I
Revised January
1
7
, 2011

 

[mmckenna]

Here is some info regarding, among other things, using part 90 radios on the Marine Band....

http://rdept.cgaux.org/documents/Comms/VHFRadioFacilityRequirements.pdf

Rick

That's good stuff, but keep in mind that it only applies to USCGA while performing their duties. It doesn't apply to us average Joe's.
Unless you are a federal government entity, the FCC rules apply.
Federal Agencies are not held under the FCC rules, but instead the NTIA. The NTIA "Red Book" is available on line. I've never had the chance to read through it all the way, so not sure what it says about Marine VHF.

Nice to see that the USCG specifically called out about -NOT- using amateur radio gear.

 

[krokus]

I was about to suggest the Icom M-88, but then I realized that it will only has 22 programmable channels reserved for land use (146–174MHz). That might not be enough for many end users.


IC-M88 VHF Marine Transceiver - Features - Icom America

This radio could be very useful, as you could program 22 ham or LMR frequencies/pairs, on top of the marine stuff. Fire departments near navigable waterways or hams that are boaters could find it useful.

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