Way Confused

Status
Not open for further replies.

mohawk

Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2005
Messages
3
I just purchased a BC898T and manually input all the frequencies I could find, then decided that I don't understand the Trunk Fleet or Talking Id's nor how to go about programning them. I have to plead stupid and new to scanning ...could you tell? The Uniden owners manual is no help! Here some examples of what I'm runing into:

Police Operations: Patrol Utah Highway Patrol (Davis) DVS Law 2 9440

Police Layton Police (Channel #1) 10528


I'm lost!
 

seamusg

Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2004
Messages
2,183
Location
Grand Blanc, MI
mohawk said:
I just purchased a BC898T and manually input all the frequencies I could find, then decided that I don't understand the Trunk Fleet or Talking Id's nor how to go about programning them. I have to plead stupid and new to scanning ...could you tell? The Uniden owners manual is no help! Here some examples of what I'm runing into:

Police Operations: Patrol Utah Highway Patrol (Davis) DVS Law 2 9440

Police Layton Police (Channel #1) 10528


I'm lost!
It is easier to program a trunked system with software. The two you listed are talkgroups on the UCAN system.
http://www.radioreference.com/modules.php?name=TRSDB&sid=601
I would start by finding which sites on this system you can receive and only program in those freqs. Try only one site per bank.
 

LarrySC

Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2001
Messages
2,089
Location
Greenville, SC
On most Uniden scanners you must put the scanner into the trunking mode BEFORE you enter the frequencies. It looks like a type II Motorola system. Keep plugging away, you'll get it.
 

seamusg

Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2004
Messages
2,183
Location
Grand Blanc, MI
LarrySC said:
On most Uniden scanners you must put the scanner into the trunking mode BEFORE you enter the frequencies. It looks like a type II Motorola system. Keep plugging away, you'll get it.
It's a lot easier if you use the software.
 

kd7rto

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
480
Location
Bountiful, Ut
Anyone who would program a talkgroup list by hand has much more patience than I.

It took about three months after I bought my BC246T for the ARC246 software to be released, and I let my new toy sit until then. Great software from Butel, great handheld radio. Hopefully Uniden will come out with a comparable mobile, I just bought a BC796D and I *hate* the thing.

Gary, KD7RTO (ex-N6ORZ)
Murray, Ut
http://www.qsl.net/kd7rto/utah
--
In God we trust. All others we monitor.
 
Last edited:

N7OLQ

Scanning since '77
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 17, 2001
Messages
345
Location
Utah
n6orz said:
I just bought a BC796D and I *hate* the thing.

Hi Gary,
I feel the same way. I was surprised by how much the little 246 impressed me, since I'm not really a big HH scanner user. The flexible memory of my 246 and 396 make me not want to even use my old 780's and 785's. I'm looking forward to the 996T!

Brett - N7OLQ
 

pathalogical

Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2005
Messages
1,305
Location
Toronto, Canada
It should be as easy to program by hand as with the software. If you're dependant on using software, it doesn't make sense that you have to run to your PC just to make a little change or add a new freq ? I don't have a 246 (see my signature) but I've been reading to many disappointing posts by users regarding the ability to program it, and other trunkers. I don't think 'user friendliness' was a feature planned on by Uniden. Not sure about the Radio Shack models. These discouraging posts is what is making me put off a new scanner purchase. I still wanna buy one, but my computer is outdated (Win95) so it's either program by hand or buy a new PC and scanner and software. And that adds up to big bucks !!!
 

kd7rto

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
480
Location
Bountiful, Ut
Brett,

As you probably recall, I do a lot of audio logging, and very little live listening. I've been using Scanstar Delux for a long time now (and Scanstar Plus before that). Still, it took me a lot of fighting with Trunkstar before I got it to work properly with the logger.

Today is my first test on UCAN. Previously, I have tried it with a bank of 26 conventional P-25 channels from the federal bands. With an outdoor antenna, I quickly discovered how weak the front end is. Even with an indoor antenna, the logger file contained a lot more false squelch openings than valid traffic.

My next steps are going to be adding filtering between the radio and antenna, and modding the squelch to tighten it up.
 

kd7rto

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
480
Location
Bountiful, Ut
Pathalogical,

Using Butel's ARC246 to program the 246 is a breeze. It's Uniden's UASD program that is the nightmare.
 

N7OLQ

Scanning since '77
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 17, 2001
Messages
345
Location
Utah
n6orz said:
Today is my first test on UCAN. Previously, I have tried it with a bank of 26 conventional P-25 channels from the federal bands. With an outdoor antenna, I quickly discovered how weak the front end is. Even with an indoor antenna, the logger file contained a lot more false squelch openings than valid traffic.

I used SS Deluxe for many years with the OptoCom and did a lot of audio logging too. Now I don't have time to even listen to the logs. SSD had so many quirks that I finally gave up using it.

I think it is a Uniden design rule that their hand held scanners "Must overload when connected to external antennas". They could learn a lot from GRE RF design I think.

I'm not sure what band you are in, but I have an Stridsberg FLT800 filter you can borrow if you want.
 

kd7rto

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
480
Location
Bountiful, Ut
Brett,

I already have several 800 MHz filters, though I aopreciate the offer. Recently I've been searching 138-144, 148-150.775, 162.0-174, and 406-420 MHz ranges with my 2006+OS456. The Optoelectronics APS-104 or APS-105 would be the ideal device to have (currently #2 on my wish list), I'd simply have to search 4 MHZ increments at a time. What would be even better would be if Signal Intelligence would support tuning the APS units as it scans.
 

mohawk

Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2005
Messages
3
Not So Lost Anymore But....

Okay, I went for the advice on getting software.... BuTel will arrive next. Also working on adding an antenna.....already have a few picked out and getting answers from the manufacturers. Morgan Utah is pretty closed in by mountan ranges but that's why I live here.
Also as suggested, I downloaded frequencies for Utah from radio frequencies.com. I programed a few of the frequencies in the trunk mode on Motorola II and have had better results. I even folllowed the directions and rogrammed in some of the talk group ID's but don't think that process is working. All I've heard is the chatter on the main frequencys.

I'm not feeling as lost as I did a few days ago but question:
WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MOTORLOA II AND MOTOROLA II SMART ZONE ??
(Motorloa II SmartZone is what is listed for Utah (UCAN) on radio freqencies.com)
 

SCPD

QRT
Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
0
Location
Virginia
WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MOTORLOA II AND MOTOROLA II SMART ZONE ??

There are a lot of members who know more about this topic than I do and I hope a few post here. In a nutshell the difference is that a Motorola II is a Motorola Type II system (as opposed to a Type I) and it usually includes only one electronic site, where the repeaters are located (one repeater for each voice channel), or it requires that the user switch to another site manually. With a Smart Zone system the radio works very similar to a cell phone with the most notable difference being you can't talk and receive at the same time, unless there is a phone patch capability on the system. The similarity is with a Smart Zone system the multiple electronic sites are connected to a controller for each zone, which selects which electronic site is receiving the best signal from a mobile and automatically sends signals to each mobile as to what frequencies to use in accessing that site. When the mobile travels and a site begins to lose the signal of that mobile, the controller automatically senses a better signal on another site (unless it is a blind spot for all of the systems repeaters) and sends commands to that radio to start using frequencies assigned to the next site. Receiving works in the same way as transmitting. There is a controller at each site which selects which repeater and therefore frequency is going to be used depending on the amount of radio traffic being worked by that site. Switching from site to site is done so fast that the listener cannot detect the switching. The zone controllers are then linked by a master controller which contols activity on the entire system.

The explanation I've given is not for a simulcast system, which would complicate answering your question.

The neat thing about listening to a Smart Zone system is that some talkgroups might be system wide and you may hear mobile traffic from a great distance away, depending on how the system is designed and how it is being operated. The Smart Zone system I monitor frequently belongs to Southern California Edison. They will patch lots of talkgroups together when one dispatcher is handeling many different areas. This allows me to hear reports of electrical distribution problems over a wide area of the southern half of the state. I'm in the far northeastern portion of SCE's service area and since weather approaches from the west, I can often get a heads up on high winds and amount of precip falling before the storm or front reaches me.

I don't know the specifics of the "UCAN" system, however, I think Smart Zone systems are great to listen to. On my PRO-96 I have the primary control channels for many sites programmed into one bank and even though the scanner won't switch to a different site automatically as I leave the last sites reception area, the very next time the radio scans it will pick up the best signal from the data channel and start tracking using that site. Often if the repeater is not allowed to drop in a long conversation and my signal is getting poor, I will just hit the scan button so the radio will start tracking on the next site. This is something that the older trunk tracking scanners would not do unless you put all the frequencies for one site into one bank and all the frequencies in another bank for the next site. You would then have to lock out one bank and switch to the next to accomplish the same thing. You could eat up all your memory doing that and just for one system, depending on how many sites your programmed into your scanner. The newest scanners only require the control channel and they can be put into one bank. '

As for Type I Motorola systems, programming them is more complicated as you have to know what the "fleet map" is and then program it in. If there is no infomation available for a particular Type I system, it gets real complicated trying to determine the fleet map all on your own. There are getting to be fewer of those systems, especially public safety systems, as it is an older method of trunking and not as efficient as the Type II systems. I figured out a Type I system from scratch and I can only say I would have never done it unless I was flat on my back for a month after some surgery. I was a captive audience and figuring out the system kept my mind active when I didn't want to read. I don't recommend trying to figure out Type I systems on your own.

I hope this answers your question. I've tried to explain it in as simple of a manner as I could, as I you said you are new to scanning, let alone to trunking. Any others on this thread are welcome to correct or clarify anything I've written as I'm not an expert in trunking systems.
 

SCPD

QRT
Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
0
Location
Virginia
Something I forgot to mention about Smart Zone systems is that at least one mobile must be turned on and "talking" to a site before that site transmits anything. Just like cell phones, trunked radios and the site communicate via the control channel frequently, whether the mobile is transmitting voice or not. Sites are constantly searching for mobile units and are controlled according to the number of units in its coverage area and what talkgroup those units are set on.

So, if you are trying to receive the transmissions of a system in an area where you can only receive one site and there are not any mobiles turned on in the area served by that site, you will hear nothing. Getting back to the SCE system I listen to in the mountainous region I live in, there are sites which serve areas with very little population and without any fixed facility such as a hydro plant or office. If a mobile does not travel there during the time I'm in that area, I hear none of the system wide traffic being broadcast on other sites which have a mobile or fixed facility in the area it serves. I'm lucky in the town I'm in as there is a service center with an office, shop, and parking for service trucks about 1/2 mile from my home. There is at least one radio on all the time and it keeps the site I listen to transmitting voice all the time, even though there might not be anyone on duty in the area.

There is a flip site to this lack of ability to hear system wide traffic when you live in a remote area without a larger population, as portions of Utah have. You only hear traffic on the system if there are units active in the area you live in, so you don't have to hear the out of area of traffic. For example, you won't have to listen to game wardens running plates and drivers licenses along the Wasatch front if you live in Richfield, but should a warden or conservation officer (I'm not sure what they call them in Utah) have his/her radio on in the area served by a site you listen to in Richfield you are going to hear any traffic that officer hears. The Utah system (UCAN?) might be set up to transmit the traffic from the Wasatch front statewide, which is often the case with fish and game agencies who usually have one statewide dispatcher. For other agencies such as the highway patrol you may only hear local traffic or local District wide traffic when each district has a dispatcher. Then at night with less traffic several districts might have only one dispatcher and all of the district dispatch talkgroups might be patched together during that time. The beauty of wide area trunked systems, especially Smart Zone systems, is the flexibility given to the operators, and the ability for a mobile unit to travel all over the system and still be reached on one talkgroup, if the system is set up that way.

Given this flexibility I can only speak very generally about Smart Zone systems as the way one is designed and operated in another state or by other agencies can be very different.

The discussion in my previous post of the PRO-96's or a similar scanner's ability to switch from site to site is a moot point if you aren't mobile and only monitor one site.

If you are confused at this point by what I've written I would not be surprised. Trunking, especially involving systems with mulitiple sites, can be mysterious at first. Don't worry, a lot of listening will take most of the mystery away.
 
Last edited:

mohawk

Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2005
Messages
3
Thanks for the info. Your right, a lot of listening has taken away some of the mystery. I've realized that even though I'm closed in by the mountain ranges I've heard police, fire, and air ambulance chatter from the other side of the mountians.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top