We Interrupt This Broadcast

Status
Not open for further replies.

kb2vxa

Completely Banned for the Greater Good
Banned
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
6,100
Reaction score
17
Location
Point Pleasant Beach, N.J.
I've written about the Baltimore Experiment before several times but it seems the vast majority never heard of it in the first place and the rest have forgotten. To put it simply we wouldn't have the DTV reception problems if the 8VSB system wasn't rammed down our throats by the FCC via paid promotion AKA lobby while the superior COFDM system was exported to Europe where it's working flawlessly. So much for lousy TV reception while there is something else to consider.

8VSB and NTSC have a notorious flaw in common, vestigial sidebands. That is after all what the VSB is doing after the eight layer encoding designation, right? Someone at the FCC had the bright idea to assign channel 8 to a digital transmitting site in NJ and guess what happened. Yup, it clobbered channels 7 and 9 coming out of New York 20 miles away, somebody forgot all about digital hash and learned nothing from the IBOC fiasco. Frankly I would be more concerned with TV hash wiping out low power devices in the white spaces between channels than the other way round if I were concerned at all and that's a mighty big IF.
 

windigofer

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 12, 2002
Messages
164
Reaction score
0
Location
Louisville, KY
kb2vxa said:
I've written about the Baltimore Experiment before several times but it seems the vast majority never heard of it in the first place and the rest have forgotten. To put it simply we wouldn't have the DTV reception problems if the 8VSB system wasn't rammed down our throats by the FCC via paid promotion AKA lobby while the superior COFDM system was exported to Europe where it's working flawlessly. So much for lousy TV reception while there is something else to consider.

8VSB and NTSC have a notorious flaw in common, vestigial sidebands. That is after all what the VSB is doing after the eight layer encoding designation, right? Someone at the FCC had the bright idea to assign channel 8 to a digital transmitting site in NJ and guess what happened. Yup, it clobbered channels 7 and 9 coming out of New York 20 miles away, somebody forgot all about digital hash and learned nothing from the IBOC fiasco. Frankly I would be more concerned with TV hash wiping out low power devices in the white spaces between channels than the other way round if I were concerned at all and that's a mighty big IF.

Ah, yes, that's always the way things work: television here in the States has always had a major case of Not Invented Here Syndrome. (And yes, this goes back. Pretty far back. Quite possibly to the dawn of television here.)

But yes, it's the Part 15 devices that have much more to worry about with TV wiping them out than vice versa. Milliwatts versus kilowatts? Kilowatts wins :)
 

poltergeisty

Truth is a force of nature
Banned
Joined
May 7, 2004
Messages
4,012
Reaction score
133
Location
RLG, Fly heading 053, intercept 315 DVV
We interrupt this broadcast indeed!

These sure are interesting times we live in right now. Here on one hand you have a nation that is re-banding 800 MHz due to cell phone interference and on the other hand you have HDTV coming on scene with greedy little side liners wanting a bid on a block of the spectrum of the old TV band.

Now if history repeats its self (as it usually does) with the cell phone interference problems, I bet we could foresee those same problems with the D block section of 700 MHz. :lol:

I can't wait for the final hour when the once new analog goes digital and the standard way of reception as we new it will cease to exist. I wonder, when I'm watching the TV on the final day at midnight, will I see those familiar color bars that came on at night in the early days of television with the long beeeeeeeeeep sound? I might even set up a tripod mounted video camera and just tape the TV so that I may document this final hour and upload it to YouTube....................Naaa, I think I'll just watch a movie from Netflix instead... :lol: :)
 
Last edited:

BlueMR2

Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Audiodave1 said:
I'm more worried about the iDEN handsets pulsing 2.4w (Yes Watts) output when it has an incoming call getting into my audio chain.

I always wondered what the iDEN output power was... When I used to have one, I noticed that my monitor would bounce about a quarter second before the handset would ring (and it was hanging on my belt!). Figured they must have some pretty significant output!
 

BlueMR2

Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
gmclam said:
It is going to be tricky to get everyone converted over, as I am sure there are still lots out there with rabbit ears and VCRs flashing 12:00.

Yeah, I'm still sitting here with the rabbit ears on my TVs. I understand very well why the move is being made, just wish they weren't doing it. My TV signal now is marginal most times, I won't bother getting a digital decoder since it's unlikely to work very well for me anyways. I'll miss being able to watch the evening news, but I guess I'll have a lot more time to play with my radios. :)

Oh, as far as VCR flashing 12:00... I haven't owned a VCR in a couple years... :)
 

Audiodave1

Member
Database Admin
Joined
Dec 27, 2001
Messages
1,982
Reaction score
271
Location
Chadds Ford, PA
BlueMR2 said:
I always wondered what the iDEN output power was... When I used to have one, I noticed that my monitor would bounce about a quarter second before the handset would ring (and it was hanging on my belt!). Figured they must have some pretty significant output!
You'll never get the carrier to admit this as it is WAY out of spec but some testing done by people I know (that were worried about interference with their critical computer equipment that controls power distribution) confirmed this. Once you are talking it is only the .5 or .6w max that any digital cellphone puts out.
 

Audiodave1

Member
Database Admin
Joined
Dec 27, 2001
Messages
1,982
Reaction score
271
Location
Chadds Ford, PA
Ok,
I may be unaware of the specs for CDMA / iDEN.
I thought 600mw or is that more of a handset / battery voltage / capacity limitation where the spec allows more output.

Random note:
I believe Motorola made a version of the "Brick phone" for the old AMPS format that would TX up to 5w rather than the normal 3w limit.

Dave
 

nd5y

Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
12,576
Reaction score
4,901
Location
Wichita Falls, TX
600 mW is for Class III AMPS and TDMA-136 phones.
There are are a bunch of different power classes for different types of phones and transmission protocols.
 

donc13

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
1,547
Reaction score
1,105
Location
Grand Junction, CO
Halfpint said:
A friend of mine who works for an `up-scale' Audio Video store down in Denver had his boss pick up several samples, from different makers, of those `converter' boxes and was sending them home with different employees to try. Since my friend has cable into his house he brought them, the 3 he had been given, up to me to try because we don't have cable or Sat. reception here on the farm. The first attempts with just plain old `rabbit ears' was a very dismal flop. He then brought up several examples of supposed `HD' `indoor' antennas to try. Of all of them only the "Terk" one that looks like something from "StarTrek" was the only one that even barely brought in a slight resembalance of a signal and *that* was still not enough to watch anything on anything except the good old analog `UFO' channels. (We actually were finally able to *clearly* receive all of the `local' UHF channels instead of just ¼ of them like we've been getting.) We finally put up a `push up' mast and started trying different `outside' antennas. Of the dozen and a half or so of the ones we tried only the top three made by Winnegarde were able to bring in acceptable signals though the lesser of the three was basically *just* acceptable. After all the hassles and such we packed up everything, except the last antenna we'd tested, and I returned that stuff planning that we'd take down the mast and antenna the coming weekend when it would be more than just 2 people available. (We had the mast mounted with brackets to the side of our house and also had it guyed with some steel cable that the owner of the shop had claimed would be "more than sufficient" to do the `job'.) Unfortunately that Friday night before we were going to finish getting everything back we had wind gusts of 50+mph and the next morning I found the mast and antenna on the ground with the antenna badly mangled.

Now... We are not all *that* far from the transmitter site, *max* 50miles `as the crow flies', and, to say the least, we weren't all that impressed at what we were able to receive `picture quality-wise' even with an approximately $100+ antenna! (For those of you who are wondering why we don't have `Sat' it's because *none* of the various `providers' have been able to install a `system' and get better than basically `so-so' reception no matter how hard they have tried. One company even went as far as trying to tell us that if we were to cut down several of the 50 - 60 year old trees we have they *might* be able to get a `better' signal. (The only way a tree around here gets cut down is *if* that tree has `terminal' problems! Even though this is a farm finding and getting trees that will grow and thrive is very hard and when we have found one(s) that are able to do so we cherish them. [We finally had to cut down one that had been planted here when the place was *homesteaded*, it was planted in 1899, and it was actually a traumatic affair. We now only have *one* left and, unfortunately, it appears that it may not see another summer.] Now I will admit that the rest of our tree are *not* that old and that those two are definitely exceptions. However, even if a tree was only even 20 - 30 years old cutting it down just to be able to watch what they try to pass off as `entertainment' is not worth it. We'll just go back and re-read some of the books we already have in our library and start buying more to read and add to the library. We *may* also start buying more DVDs, too.) As for possibly getting our TV via, lessay, TPC and DSL/ADSL/Fibre or whatever... I've been fighting with TPC for *years* now just to be able to connect a better than 26.4! We are too far from the CO and even though there *is* a fibre `trunk' running up alongside the paved County road less than ½ mile to the East of us they refuse to hook us up. (I'd *gladly* pay to get a fibre connection as it would most likely actually be a lot cheaper than what I already am paying, approximately *$400/month*, for our existing phone lines and would also allow us to get rid of the 2 FX lines we have to have to call only a couple miles South of us! [We are almost exactly on the boundary of 2 area codes and while we can get by with a `normal?' POTS line to call Northward using that same line to call slightly South of us means that we have to pay `in-state' LD charges. And because a lot of the places and people we regularly call are to the South, or Southwest, of us the FX line option is actually cheaper in the long run. (A call to just Longmont, approximately 15miles due West of us, is LD! A call to Fort Lupton, which is also about the same distance but slightly South and East of us, is LD! They are both area code 303 and we are area code 970.)]) Amazingly even with all the dreck that TPC shovels up they are *a lot* cheaper than any of the cable companies. (The last time I checked, a year or so ago, the cable company who's `end of line' point is only a tad bit over ½ mile away wanted just under $12K to run a line! The excuse was that there wasn't enough `density' for it to be feasible for us to do so at this time. [Yet, we are slowly being surrounded on three sides by towns wanting to annex the land so they can increase their powers and tax bases! On two of those sides there is already development being planned and we expect that, unless we can sell out and `get the flock outa here' before then, there will be around 400 houses to our West and around 200 more houses to our South before too long *even with* the `housing slowdown'! The closest houses will be less that 250yds from our back door!])

Oh, well... Just an `Olde Fart's', *very cynical*, 2¢ worth. At least, for now, we'll still have our assorted radios to listen to. But, I am not going to hold my breath hoping that they don't screw that up, too.

NONE of the Denver stations are full power or in their final sites. Most are broadcasting from the top of the Republic building in downtown Denver. The high power transmitters and antenna towers are being built on Lookout Mt. now and should be on the air by Spring.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top