What's going on with 2m?

Status
Not open for further replies.

reedeb

Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2006
Messages
849
Location
Dallas Texas
Just how childish can you guys get? I've read many of your comments and replies that are nothing but negative (like the guy with the Johnson Messenger today). Your simple solution to everything is to go down to the ham shop and plunk down big money on the newest and greatest radios, antennas, and other crap. Not everyone has the cash or means to buy a shack full of new equipment.

Since this thread is titled "What's going on with 2m?" and it's correctly been stated that cellphones are the problem, well it's not hard to figure out why you and your buddy are in a snit about my Iphone.
When you pay for my cell phone then you can tell me what to use!!
Also, they come with this neat little cable that I can use to recharge the battery from the car, the wall, or a USB port on a computer so dead battery isn't ever an issue.

And you're right there can be outdated info on the internet but at least I can verfiy what info is correct through different websites. If the book is wrong or outdated then it will be for life, unless you look it up and make the changes yourself. Or Wait...why not just listen for a conversation and ask for repeater information? In fact this works better than trying to look it up while driving. Most of my 2m time was from the cab of a truck or the helm of a towboat, both shook alot and made reading impossible.

It's time for this thread to get back on topic.
Ron
I think I struck a nerve. I'm not is in a snit over your toy. I do use the internet to look stuff up BUT I also carry a book as SOMETIMES the internet is down. AND i've also listened to conversations on repeaters and gotten info that way as well.
 

Thayne

Member
Joined
May 1, 2002
Messages
2,145
I like it all, cellphones included. Even though I don't talk much on 2M or 440, the mobiles in my truck & the handhelds are all old & paid for so about the only time I use them is when I am cruising around parts of the western US and I find it fun to talk to the local Hams. It is entirely different when you get away from the big cities.
Having the license also makes it better when you get stopped by the local fuzz and they wonder about all the radios. Still always wise to turn off the scanners when they are standing next to you.
 

rapidcharger

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2012
Messages
2,382
Location
The land of broken calculators.
Myself and others have gammed on this phenomenon and the sad conclusion is that Ham Radio, particularly on the old reliable 2M/440 communications have given way to "depicable-them T^2" Tweets and Textings, passing responsibilities for reliable communications in the world from individuals to the mercy of the Phone companie$$. :roll: :( :(

Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead but I had posted a similar thread and someone alerted me to this one.

The problem that I have with the "everyone's gone to texting and tweeting and facebook" theory is that first of all, people in my age bracket are not really in to texting or all that involved (if at all) with facebook or twitter. I don't even have a personal facebook account.

While this theory may account for a reduction in new hams, I'm pretty sure we haven't actually seen a reduction in hams judging by the number of new call signs being issued and I do hear a number of young sounding new hams trying to make contacts.

And as someone else pointed out, there's definitely people out there with radios. They're checking into the nets. They just don't want to talk to anyone after the net.
 

K8cpa-chuck

Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2010
Messages
265
Oh, can I ever relate!

Same way around here. Why I am putting an APRS Station. I got tired of the stupidity on 2 meters and just listening to repeaters ID all day long.

As for 220, around here, it's dead. There are 2 220 repeaters around here and they're both dead.

440? well, that's another story. plenty of them; most are occupied by professional butthole Amateur radio operators, who think they are God's gift to Amateur Radio. Like that one punk A$$ed bastard over in Fenton, Michigan, who runs his Daddy's communications business and thinks he's so stinking wonderful. He is the biggest prick in Michigan and I am told, everyone knows it; but tolerates it, because he's got money and can get them the stuff they need.

The rest are occupied and owned by wanna-be cops and by those who've never worked a hard day in their lives. Desk jockey's I call them.

Why I tend to stay on HF, quite a bit.
 

michaeldim

Member
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
30
As a young person who is just getting into the amateur hobby, let me explain why I think there are so few new users coming in, because it's the hurdle I have to deal with.

Expense. It's as simple as that.

I'm interested in becoming a ham because I love to play and experiment with new technology and devices. Radio tech is my newest interest and I would love to dive in and play with all the cool radios, antennas, SDRs, and other stuff. But I can't.

I can't afford to run around and buy $2-3,000 worth of equipment. I have school to worry about, I have food, and other expenses. I cannot tell you how much I would LOVE to have one of those XTS5000s (or any P25 radio for that matter). That would be the greatest thing ever, and I just can't afford the $5-600 plus $300 software.

And I see some hams on here say things like "Oh, I just bought my fourth one along with a $500 SDR" and they're sitting on a treasure trove of radio tech while I'm sitting here fussing with the Baofeng UV-5R I just managed to save enough scratch for. I walk into an HRO for a scanner antenna and I ask their opinion, and they point to this $75-80 discone I sure as hell can't afford.

Cost seems to be FAR more prohibitive to someone trying to get into the hobby than anything else to me. Though I will admit I'm not looking for ham radio for communication but more for experimentation.

I've stuck to it regardless but I can see how easy it would be to just look at the price tag and say "nevermind."
 

K8cpa-chuck

Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2010
Messages
265
As a young person who is just getting into the amateur hobby, let me explain why I think there are so few new users coming in, because it's the hurdle I have to deal with.

Expense. It's as simple as that.

I'm interested in becoming a ham because I love to play and experiment with new technology and devices. Radio tech is my newest interest and I would love to dive in and play with all the cool radios, antennas, SDRs, and other stuff. But I can't.

I can't afford to run around and buy $2-3,000 worth of equipment. I have school to worry about, I have food, and other expenses. I cannot tell you how much I would LOVE to have one of those XTS5000s (or any P25 radio for that matter). That would be the greatest thing ever, and I just can't afford the $5-600 plus $300 software.

And I see some hams on here say things like "Oh, I just bought my fourth one along with a $500 SDR" and they're sitting on a treasure trove of radio tech while I'm sitting here fussing with the Baofeng UV-5R I just managed to save enough scratch for. I walk into an HRO for a scanner antenna and I ask their opinion, and they point to this $75-80 discone I sure as hell can't afford.

Cost seems to be FAR more prohibitive to someone trying to get into the hobby than anything else to me. Though I will admit I'm not looking for ham radio for communication but more for experimentation.

I've stuck to it regardless but I can see how easy it would be to just look at the price tag and say "nevermind."

You want stop that? Stop voting for Democrats. THEY are the ones push for the printing of more money. This devalues the currency and causes inflation, which drives the costs of EVERYTHING up. Not mention this war is driving everything up too.

Vote for people that believe in sane spending & sound currency. Not in a federal reserve that is out of control.

Just a thought.
 

zz0468

QRT
Banned
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
6,034
As a young person who is just getting into the amateur hobby, let me explain why I think there are so few new users coming in, because it's the hurdle I have to deal with.

Expense. It's as simple as that.

Ok. Fair enough. That just means you have to get creative. When I was a young ham, I got to know a lot of the older guys at the local clubs, was enthusiastic, and ended up having a TON of stuff given to me. Then I had to learn how to fix it. A win-win all around.

I'm interested in becoming a ham because I love to play and experiment with new technology and devices. Radio tech is my newest interest and I would love to dive in and play with all the cool radios, antennas, SDRs, and other stuff. But I can't.

So, learn the basics with older non-SDR radios. There's a huge amount of older gear languishing in people's garage that can be had for the asking. No one who's gone far in this hobby has started out with all the best and latest gear. Want to earn the respect of the older guys, impress the snot out of them, and get them to give you stuff? Get an old tube type boat anchor radio on the air.

I can't afford to run around and buy $2-3,000 worth of equipment. I have school to worry about, I have food, and other expenses. I cannot tell you how much I would LOVE to have one of those XTS5000s (or any P25 radio for that matter). That would be the greatest thing ever, and I just can't afford the $5-600 plus $300 software.

I know of several younger hams who attend the local club meetings, are active participants in whatever is going on, including cleaning out someone's garage and hauling old stuff away. What makes these guys different is that they will fix the old stuff, if it's fixable. Then they use it a bit, and use it to trade up.

And I see some hams on here say things like "Oh, I just bought my fourth one along with a $500 SDR" and they're sitting on a treasure trove of radio tech...

Yeah, the guys making $150,000 a year. So, you're not there... yet. They didn't get started with that stuff, you know.

while I'm sitting here fussing with the Baofeng UV-5R I just managed to save enough scratch for. I walk into an HRO for a scanner antenna and I ask their opinion, and they point to this $75-80 discone I sure as hell can't afford.

Go to the hardware store, but some PVC water pipe and fittings, stuff wires into them, and make antennas.

Cost seems to be FAR more prohibitive to someone trying to get into the hobby than anything else to me. Though I will admit I'm not looking for ham radio for communication but more for experimentation.

Yeah, ham radio CAN be expensive, but it doesn't have to be. I have what probably amounts to a $10,000 a year ham radio hobby. But I can afford that. It didn't always used to be that way. For years, my 2 meter and 440 radios were old commercial tube radios that were given to me. The cost of crystals was a big bite out of my budget. But I learned how to fix the old radios, learned where to order parts, and had a blast. And now I have fond memories.

I've stuck to it regardless but I can see how easy it would be to just look at the price tag and say "nevermind."

Then start looking at older stuff, with an eye on what you can do with it. Want a 2 meter radio? Get some old surplus commercial gear. Intimidated by programming? Find people who can help you. Want an HF rig? Check Craigslist for an old HW-100 for $100. Want SDR? Get one of those $20 SDR kits. And in the meantime, stay in school, get a degree, and when you're older , you too can have a $10,000 ham radio budget. :p
 

michaeldim

Member
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
30
You want stop that? Stop voting for Democrats. THEY are the ones push for the printing of more money. This devalues the currency and causes inflation, which drives the costs of EVERYTHING up. Not mention this war is driving everything up too.

Vote for people that believe in sane spending & sound currency. Not in a federal reserve that is out of control.

Just a thought.

Yes, because that the sole reason radio technology is unaffordable is the Democrats.

While I agreed with your last post, I hope your kidding, because the world is fraught with ten thousand problems. One of which is the Democrats, and another of which is the Republicans. That aside, I'm not going any deeper down the political rabbit hole because it's off-topic and terrifying to boot.

I'm instead gonna go off on a rant that isn't gonna make me many friends around these parts.
Bear in mind here that this isn't directed at any one person and certainly not you, K8CPA.

There's a second reason why people are disinclined from becoming a part of the ham community, and that's because the community (from what I've seen here, especially in the Tavern) is made up primarily of older individuals who seem to live in yesteryear. I see people on narrowminded tangents about politics and hating on certain religious and ethnic groups. Now, I know that's just here, but I've heard it on the air as well.

For example, I listened to a local repeater on my scanner for, oh, maybe 5 or 6 minutes and listening to repeaters is not something I do often, mind you. I maybe only have followed a ham conversation twice in three months since I started scanning. Anyway, on the air two folks were conversing and I was following their conversation about some radio equipment, when one of them made an off-color and pretty blatant homophobic remark. Now, I'm a cool-headed fellow, I'm not gonna hear this and fly into a tizzy and write the FCC a letter. But I did sit back and thought long and hard if I want to be a part of a community like that.

This was made especially bad because I myself am homosexual, and there seems to be plenty of hate for people like us flying around here. However, I have not let that, nor the expense of the equipment, discourage me from pursuing the hobby that I have come to appreciate. And I know not everyone here is like that, it may even be the minority, but it's still a problem.

But, I can see pretty clearly why someone coming in here, or listening to a rag-chew, could catch a glimpse of the the narrow minded foolishness, easily be turned off, and leave without so much as looking back. Now I refuse to do that, I wanna play with some radios and ain't no-one gonna stop me. I believe the ham community is made mostly of good, caring people, but that side can be hard to see at times. I just think that we should all be open and welcoming of new members.
 

zz0468

QRT
Banned
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
6,034
...a second reason why people are disinclined from becoming a part of the ham community, and that's because the community (from what I've seen here, especially in the Tavern) is made up primarily of older individuals who seem to live in yesteryear...

And the hobby NEEDS younger people like yourself, in spite of the fact that some of the older guys do everything they can to chase them away. Keep in mind, however, that just like the politics section here in the forums, the curmudgeonly old farts are a vocal minority. Find the more technically inclined groups and the science and physics becomes more important than gall stones and politics.

...I was following their conversation about some radio equipment, when one of them made an off-color and pretty blatant homophobic remark...

This was made especially bad because I myself am homosexual, and there seems to be plenty of hate for people like us flying around here...

Again, it's a vocal minority. Get in with the right crowd, and they're more interested in getting a new ham going, then what they're particular orientation is. This is a hobby where that's not supposed to matter. So, forget the people who that matters to. You don't need their help.

...I just think that we should all be open and welcoming of new members.

Indeed. So, start by finding a supportive and interesting club, plan on getting a modest start with older, cheaper gear, and work your way up to the more complicated and expensive stuff. Trrust me... it's better that way.
 

Ed_Seedhouse

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Messages
570
Location
Victoria B.C. Canada
Two meter single band radios are going for under a hundred bucks these days, most of them easily capable of hitting repeaters in any largish city. Don't know how much it is for a license down in the USA, but cost is really no obstacle until you decide to get into serious hf. VHF and UHF are downright cheap, even up here in Canada. I got an ICOM T70A for under $250 Canadian including tax and shipping. Once you have a VHF and up license you can talk to the world via IRLP or echolink.

I'm a retiree and not exactly rolling in wealth, but I could afford a decent new dual bander. Get to know a few hams and you might even get a radoio given to you once you get your ticket. Happened to me.
 

gewecke

Completely Banned for the Greater Good
Banned
Joined
Jan 29, 2006
Messages
7,452
Location
Illinois
I'm pretty much all but soured on 2 meter and even some 70cm repeaters anymore due to all the bleepin, bloopin speak n' spell happy repeaters I'm subjected to! :(
I own watches so they don't need to tell me the time every 30 minutes when they blab their id in some sexy french or hal 2000 like voice!
Just a plain old 2.5 khz. cwid once every hour would suffice, but noooo! Good ol' simplex sounds mighty nice lately.
Ok ,sorry rant mode is off now.

73,
n9zas
 

Token

Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2010
Messages
2,472
Location
Mojave Desert, California, USA
As a young person who is just getting into the amateur hobby, let me explain why I think there are so few new users coming in, because it's the hurdle I have to deal with.

Expense. It's as simple as that.

zz0468 pretty much hit the nail right on the head.

Cost has always been an issue towards getting into ham / hobby radio if you are going to buy new equipment. It is no more an issue today than it was in the 60’s when I took the plunge. Sure, the equipment cost more today in dollars than it did back then, but not in spending value or relative cost.

I was in radio for many years before I got my first new radio. Shoot, it was a couple years before I got my first working manufactured radio (used), instead of something I built myself or scavenged off a junk heap and brought back to life.

When I bought my first used and working manufactured communications receiver I think I paid $25 for it (a Hallicrafters SX-99, low middle class RX, and how I scraped for that $25). In today’s dollars that would be like spending $170. Pretty comparable to what I find used similar performance level communications receivers going for today, at least when you find them at a hamfest/swapmeet/flea market. Of course, places like Ebay are a bit higher priced.

I'm interested in becoming a ham because I love to play and experiment with new technology and devices. Radio tech is my newest interest and I would love to dive in and play with all the cool radios, antennas, SDRs, and other stuff. But I can't.

Sure you can, you just cannot start out playing at the top of the heap. Just like all the young hams before you (with few exceptions) you have to start small and work up.

Want to play with SDRs? Try something like the Softrock Ensemble II (or any one of several similar sound card based SDRs). $75 to $100 (depending on what power supply and box you get for it) and you get a piece of hardware that was beyond even a well heeled hams dreams just 15 years ago at any price. Sure, it is not as good as a wiz-bang DDC SDR, but it is a heck of a value for the money. Never in the history of the radio hobby could you buy so much new receiver performance for so little relative expense.

Want to play with antennas and learn about them? No better way than to build them yourself. Except for mobile applications antennas can often be built for a fraction of the cost of buying them new. And even mobile antennas can be built cheap sometimes. I think I had been in the radio hobby maybe 10 or 15 years before I bought my first manufactured antenna, every one prior to that was home built. Today the majority of my general purpose antennas are still home built.

I can't afford to run around and buy $2-3,000 worth of equipment. I have school to worry about, I have food, and other expenses. I cannot tell you how much I would LOVE to have one of those XTS5000s (or any P25 radio for that matter). That would be the greatest thing ever, and I just can't afford the $5-600 plus $300 software.

And I see some hams on here say things like "Oh, I just bought my fourth one along with a $500 SDR" and they're sitting on a treasure trove of radio tech while I'm sitting here fussing with the Baofeng UV-5R I just managed to save enough scratch for. I walk into an HRO for a scanner antenna and I ask their opinion, and they point to this $75-80 discone I sure as hell can't afford.

Have realistic goals and you will not be disappointed. If you can’t afford to drop $900 on a radio and software then stop worrying about it or lusting after it. Get what you can afford and make the best of it. This is how it has always been.

$80 for an antenna that will work decently on all common scanner bands is not a bad deal. You have to be realistic about cost, value, and what you need. Sure, a $30 antenna might do the same thing, but will it do it as well and as seamlessly? Seriously, before spending $80 on a discone why not try and build a quarter wave ground plane VHF antenna and see if that works well enough for your scanner needs? You can build one using hardware store parts for less than $15. With a little thought and another buck or two you can build a VHF/UHF single feed point ground plane antenna.

Cost seems to be FAR more prohibitive to someone trying to get into the hobby than anything else to me. Though I will admit I'm not looking for ham radio for communication but more for experimentation.

I've stuck to it regardless but I can see how easy it would be to just look at the price tag and say "nevermind."

As I said at the beginning of this post, cost is an issue…but it always has been, this is nothing new. As such it is no more a limiter to new hams / radio hobbyist entering the hobby today than it ever has been in the past. Other than maybe the new ham has so much technology clamoring for their cash…iPods, iPads, smart phones, gaming consoles, etc, etc, etc. But that is just a matter of priorities, not actual cost.

I can remember looking at the advertisements in QST or the back of the ARRL Handbook and seeing things like the Hallicrafters SR-2000 Hurricane, but at $1100 (more than $7300 in today’s money) of course that was not going to happen for the average young ham. Those kinds of things were (and similar cost points today are) for hams / radio hobbyist that are well established in their lives, probably with a good career and other life costs (like school, housing, etc) out of the way and behind them.

T!
 
Last edited:

rapidcharger

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2012
Messages
2,382
Location
The land of broken calculators.
I fully understand it's an expensive hobby. (What does HAM stand for?, Is it Hand me All your Money?)

But come on. $60 will get you a baofang. If you're real frugal, you can buy a Puxing for $50 or a used wideband commercial radio from ebay for $10 or $20. You can get on the air with a mobile mag mount antenna if needed. You can make a j-pole antenna for $20 in misc hardware. It's never been cheaper to get into this hobby, at least the local bands. Comfortably under $100.

Granted, I'd see why someone wouldn't want to pay a lot if you're just into tinkering but if you want to get on the air, sure it's more expensive than many hobbies, but it's cheaper than ever before and equipment is more readily available than ever before. It's also easier than ever to get a license. Normally when you take an activity and tear down all the barriers to entry, it becomes more popular. That hasn't happened.
 

W2IBC

Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
134
Location
Anderson,Indiana
I'm pretty much all but soured on 2 meter and even some 70cm repeaters anymore due to all the bleepin, bloopin speak n' spell happy repeaters I'm subjected to! :(
I own watches so they don't need to tell me the time every 30 minutes when they blab their id in some sexy french or hal 2000 like voice!
Just a plain old 2.5 khz. cwid once every hour would suffice, but noooo! Good ol' simplex sounds mighty nice lately.
Ok ,sorry rant mode is off now.

73,
n9zas


I never understood the hal 2000 giving the current time every x amount of minutes.. (nice tool honestly but set it where idk #3 gives the time so if you need to know you can press #3 or something)

My Machine only has a 700hz cw id which goes off every hour or two (and every 10 minutes when the machine is being used)
 

N7BOO

Newbie
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
1
Location
Tombstone, AZ
What's Going On With 2 Meters?

I came across the open discussion in this forum regarding “What’s Going On With 2 Meters?

The above language is quite often used by many Hams, especially new hams.

There are numerous reasons why repeaters are quite often silent most of the time, all of the issues for this problem can’t be answered on the forum, however, I wanted to contribute to just a few of the reasons why 2 Meters and VHF/UHF frequencies silent most of the time.

First of all, I’m 67 and earned my first ticket in May of 1980, so I’ve been licensed for roughly 32 years and now hold an Advanced Class License. Being 67 quite often tags me, as are so many older hams, as being an “Old Fuddy Elmer”, further, older hams are quite often categorized as being part of the aging amateur radio population.

When I became involved in Ham radio, the hobby was still very active and attractive, we were bread-boarding lots of our gear, involved in the beginnings of Packet Radio, involved in fox hunts, Field Day activities, emergency communications (ARES & RACES), provided West Link Reports on our repeaters (assuming we owned one), allowed general chit chat on the repeaters, had monthly meetings, joint projects, and much more. We welcomed everyone, and we encouraged the amateur radio population in our area to use the repeater. Our repeaters were “Open” not “Private”, they were a focal point for area Hams, and we just had a lot of fun, including a few laughs, and enjoyed helping others ….. period.

When I lived in Wisconsin I erected and owned the N9BKJ 2M repeater on 146.925/146.325, built and provided the Central Wisconsin Packet Hub, was involved in ARES/RACES as both the county EC and RACES Officer, provided weekly WestLink Reports, however, that didn’t make me any more special than any other Ham. I enjoyed providing the repeater and services to the local Ham population and always promoted “open and free access” to the system, including auto-patch. I didn’t provide these services for gratification, I did it because I wanted to contribute to the Ham community.

Over time, several issues started to evolve that were detrimental to repeater activity on area repeaters:

1. Many repeaters became “private”, you had meet the repeater owner’s special stringent criteria and fulfill his particular expectations of what he/she expected of you, determined what was appropriate in order for you to use his/her repeater, another words, a personal operational “guideline / constitution of sorts”, if you didn’t meet his/her specific guidelines of what “proper was”, you were banned from the repeater, some even went so far as to require that you fill out a questionnaire that would be reviewed by the repeater owner / administrator, and hopefully approved.

2. A large majority of repeaters became “clicks”, and if you weren’t part of the “click”, you weren’t welcome.

3. If you dared talk about anything other than “technical electronics subject matter”, you became an outcast and tagged as an idiot … did any of these so-called experts ever think about helping Hams not so gifted and help them with electronics education?

4. Almost every state, county, and local community became flooded with repeaters that fit into the description outlined above. All you have to do is purchase a repeater directory, or go online and get a list of repeaters in your state or county, it’s as big as the Yellow Pages, there’s an overwhelming population of repeaters that just sit silent 99% of the time. I guess it’s just became a self gratifying ego thing to have a personal repeater with no activity.

Now I’m not against a repeater every 20 feet of geography, that’s fine, but what’s the point of expending considerable resources to erect repeaters if they lie silent 99% of the time due to what I have outlined above, you’re better off to go fishing?

Amateur radio, especially repeaters, can be a wonderful enticement to both young and old Hams, and to those that would like to become part of the Ham community.

Now I don’t want anyone to get me wrong on this subject, there are many, many dedicated Hams who have committed substantial resources and time to providing repeaters, inviting the local Ham population to use and enjoy the services they provide, and encouraging young and old to become Hams, however, there’s definitely been a down turn in the wrong direction in making the Ham population at large feel welcome to use these systems.

The subject matter I have touched on here, is only a small part of the over problems affecting Amateur Radio.

I challenge every Elmer, repeater owner, and licensed ham in America to do their part in growing the amateur radio population, let’s make everyone welcome, and let’s hear those repeaters come alive again, not just an ID every 10 minutes. Repeaters are a great place to revitalize the growth of Amateur Radio, and dare I suggest, just maybe, we’ll see a revitalization of CW on the bands, that microphone isn’t going to do a damn thing for you when there’s no other way to communicate. Remember those sailors at Pearl Harbor that tapped out Morse Code on the hulls of ships sunk in the harbor with a wrench, that was the real art of emergency communications that saved lives, an art has saved lives over and over again over the years.

I know that there will be some criticism regarding my post, that's OK, I just wanted to help with a little insight on the issue being discussed. I'm not necessarily the sharpest knife in the drawer, just a Ham that wants to see Amateur Radio succeed in the years ahead and make it fun for everyone.

N7BOO
 

kb2vxa

Completely Banned for the Greater Good
Banned
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
6,100
Location
Point Pleasant Beach, N.J.
You guys are STILL at it?

I watched you suffer a dull aching pain,
Now you decided to show me the same.
No sweeping exits or off stage lines,
Could make me feel bitter or treat you unkind.
Dead horses, piled up sky high,
Dead, dead horses, the stink brings tears to my eyes.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top