What's going on with 2m?

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N4JKD

Amateur Extra
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Apr 22, 2010
Messages
360
Location
Coffee County, Tennessee
It is hit and miss here in midle Tennessee. In our area, 2 meters is usually very well monitored and can usually kick up a QSO by throwing your call out. 2 meters and 70cm really come to life during severe weather. We have a linked repeater system here that connects from east to west and North to south, the whole state is covered. Sad thing though is it usually stays quiet when no weather going on. Sure, you get the occasional burst of activity and there is a net on Mondays, but like I said, it is come and go, and surprisingly, there is more activity during the summer months than the winter.
 

Howdy_All

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Don't feel bad Grumpy i live in Snyder county pa and i am the only one in the county that is a licensed operator.

http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?ctid=2295&tab=ham
Not to sound combative - but actually that is not true. You are just the only ham in your zip code...

You might be the only active amateur radio license holder - but you are not the only licensed amateur in your county.

About 10 or 20 years ago, the government got the bright idea that all county EOC employee's had to have a license. That included the dispatchers for the county and the people responsible for the towers....
The bottom line was - those people were taken into a room, given a test, told to raise their right hands and say I'm a Amateur Radio Operator.. Kind of like how Boss Hogg would deputize the Dukes and others on the Dukes of Hazzard...

Most counties got government money to put up a amateur repeater in each county on the counties towers and at least one person had to be licensed so they could be the trustee of the repeater.
In my county, the repeater trustee is a person that is on the board for the townships in the county that held a license. The repeater sat idle for so many years, no one actually even knew if it still worked anymore. It would identify every 15 minutes but no one was using it.
So one tower technician took it upon himself to start a EMS net for himself and his amateur radio buddies who were licensed when he was. They incorporated the local population - and their call signs after the EMS peoples and their typical No Traffic in the once a week net.

The repeater is in a good location - talks well in all directions for 30 - 50 air miles in all directions, so the WAN repeater people took it over for themselves, and now it still has the once a week nets, but the rest of the time it is used for the purpose of filling in a big hole the WAN people had between Warren PA and Somerset PA...

NG3F is your section emergency coordinator I think - QRZ.COM
http://www.bucksares.org/ARRL Eastern PA Section Emergency Plan-2.pdf

N3RU the trustee of the repeater lives in Fredreick MD - QRZ.COM
I have spoke with him before - he seems nice, but a ladder climber...

What about Chris Snyder - chris.snyder@nrcev.org
Phone: (866-466-7969

Its comical because they combined the ARES and RACES nets here - because of a lack of participation.
ARES and RACES are two entirely different entities.
They had a couple of nets locally on a 2 meters repeater ( Derry PA )- ( 80 meter phone and traffic net ) and they couldn't get any participation.
They have weekly nets on the 80 meters.
I live in the country with no covenants or antenna restrictions - but my yard is so small, it prohibits putting up a antenna large enough and high enough to participate on 80 meters.
When I suggested that they continue having the nets on the 2 meters - they said it sucks to be me.
They wanted to have some type of convention this spring, but in order to have the convention they need 100 people to participate - out of 16 counties in Western Pennsylvania.
Because of their poor attitude - they only have 36 people signed up so far.

Now think about it, you have the county coordinator and one other member, plus a couple of others participating out of 16 counties.
As far as I am concerned, they can fall back into the hole they crawled out of.

I have no time for most people who talks on 80 or 160 meters.
A bunch of LIDS who only goes there to cuss and swear and participate in nets and buddy clubs.

The bottom line is - when they wrote all those licenses 20 years ago, they quit having VE Test sessions and they stopped recruiting new hams into the hobby here - because there was a buddy club in place and all those people were - were out for themselves and in time the one thing that drew them all together - a bunch of CB'rs looking for a quiet place to talk on the radio without free banding, then became the doughnut club.

Now - most clubs here do not even have a club house or a working radio in their shack if they do have a club and they meet in the local EOC - if they have not already been thrown out, and they have breakfasts at the local Eat n Parks. God bless anyone that gets between them and the endless soup and salad bar.

Ham radio needs to be more about HAM RADIO, and less about eating.

Putting up the beam antenna and a amplifier for 2 meters will only net you more repeaters that no one uses anymore.
You have to be responsible for your actions - and it was your job when you were first licensed to recruit new members into the ham radio community - as is the job of all amateurs. If you have no one to talk to - it is because you stopped doing ham radio activities and you were all out for yourselves and now you are paying the price.

I just have to wonder what is going to happen when Bill Edgar and Kay Craigie dies - who is going to take over.
 
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MTS2000des

5B2_BEE00 Czar
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Jul 12, 2008
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5,942
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Cobb County, GA Stadium Crime Zone
I find this all unfortuneate...

Well.............I WILL NOT BE DETERRED (dammmmit) :lol::D !!!

I have too many good memories tinkering with my stuff and enjoying my radios back then. I still remember the first time I figured out how to get an SWR reading off of the antenna I put on my roof and realizing that it was working GOOD.... Heck, I even got out my soldering iron and started playing again. Lost my touch a little bit, but it seems to come back fast.

It may get lonely, but, hey, SOMEONE'S gotta keep trying......:wink:

Plus, call me crazy/old school/old-fashioned, but, I kind of pride myself in trying to get my license back/reinstated/renewed/retested. Any monkey can send a text, but, I like the feeling of self-sufficiency and the feeling of developing some expertise "over and beyond." And, did I mention it is fun and satisfying?

I could still kick myself for letting my ticket expire, but, it was a turbulent time some years ago, and I had my hands full with my job and other stuff like moving overseas for a bit.

Heck, when they announce American Idol winners there's no open cells on my phone to be had as it is.....:twisted:

hang in there, when I come to Cincinnati to pick up a friend of mine this summer, I'll stir up the silence on any 2m or 440 machine I can hit. And I'm sure CPD will enjoy seeing some guy from GA with a ton of Moto stuff in his car flying through town- of course I see some of CPD's TG's are encrypted so you may not hear anything about it.

In all seriousness, activity may have fallen off, but I hear BETTER quality of discussions now during drive time then what I used to hear in the 90's on 2m. Gone are the truck drivers with their overdriven audio, and such. The new group of hams I'm hearing in the ATL are younger, driven and ready to learn and have fun.
 

ranger821

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Jun 10, 2006
Messages
644
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Fort Walton Beach, Florida
Go for it Grumpy. Glad to hear you are getting back into it. Like one poster said. Get the General Class and that opens up the HF bands to you. Still activity there. 2 meters and 440 here has been like most areas. Was thriving about 5-7 years ago but has died done a lot. Here there is a group of about 15 that are on 2 meter simplex most of the time. About half of us are retirees that have military backrounds. The area within about 50 miles has a lot of activity on 2 meters, some on 440, some on D-star and a few on digital. Quite a few on HF. I had a 10 year layoff myself but did not let the old license lapse. Enjoy the hobby!!!!!
 

grogan

Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2006
Messages
85
Amateur Repeater Los Angeles Area 147.435mhz Live Scanner Audio Feed
2 meters is alive in Los Angeles Ca. give it a listen it will shock you,Warning use your headphones adults olny.
2 meters died for the most part in my area there is a local club with members who pay dues to monitor the repeater. the last time I went to a meeting the group screamed about some one who timed out the repeater and someone who went just a wee bit to long between call sign ID.I remeber years ago the same bunch got a govt.grant and used club money to buy several radios for the club house,Several years of complaints finally got the equipment from private use to club use.you won't get a key and as I was told they olny unlock for meetings of a private nature as the regular meeting is at another location.

Get your ticket and stir up all the repeaters,Somebody will answer you.and it can be fun. HF didn,t thrill me unless you want to exchange call signs and signal reports.There is a nice group on 10 meters that moved up from CB to be legal get out further but with the solar cycle sometimes communications on 10 is tough..and there is another group of hams that have taken over the cb chanel 38 LSB just to have fun and use lower priced equipment, but beware they don't always talk like ham operators. Also if you buy a nice dual band HT and the arrow handheld beam antenna you can try satelite work. Check some of the videos on you tube, It looks fun and chalangeing.
 

W5KVV

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May 15, 2011
Messages
198
Location
S.E. Oklahoma
Some of you guys make it sound so worthless. All of the time, money & effort that's been put into 2M/70cm over the years putting up repeaters & what not. If you really want to talk, get on 2M & work the piss out of it. Someone WILL answer.

I can get on any of our local repeters & put out "KF5LCH monitoring" & have someone to talk to within 30 seconds. Some of them clear across the state. & we don't talk about gout.

2/70 is still very much alive in my area. The repeaters get cooked on a daily basis.
 

reedeb

Member
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Sep 14, 2006
Messages
849
Location
Dallas Texas
Here in North Texas 2 and 70 are quite active year round and really get going when bad weather starts up. I don't understand many out here moan and whine that ham is dead [unless it's the way YOU want it]. I wonder how many who turn on the radio and it's quiet even throw out their all or just reach over turn the dial or shut it back off..
 

zz0468

QRT
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Feb 6, 2007
Messages
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...there is a local club with members who pay dues to monitor the repeater. the last time I went to a meeting the group screamed about some one who timed out the repeater and someone who went just a wee bit to long between call sign ID...

There's always some club around that's like that. It's a waste of time to try to attend. There are plenty more good radio clubs out there that actually do stuff. And if there isn't a good club in your area, make one.

QRZ can do a zip code search. Pay a little money and send fliers out. Rent the banquet room at the local IHOP for one Saturday morning and see who shows up. They guys that do are the ones interested in actually doing something. Pick some sort of technical interest and focus on it.

Every decent club out there, every decent repeater group, started out with a couple of guys who decide to organize something instead of sitting there lamenting how the hobby is dying. Tuning around on 2 meters is a piss poor measure of what's really happening. The interesting people are on different bands.
 

zz0468

QRT
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...Putting up the beam antenna and a amplifier for 2 meters will only net you more repeaters that no one uses anymore.

Turn the beam horizontal and go SSB. People need to lose their focus on 2m FM. Go to a mode where you have to work for it a bit. The people working the weak signal modes are still out there, still having fun.
 

Howdy_All

Completely Banned for the Greater Good
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Turn the beam horizontal and go SSB. People need to lose their focus on 2m FM. Go to a mode where you have to work for it a bit. The people working the weak signal modes are still out there, still having fun.

Well the problem is - where I live there are no ELMERS.
So a person goes out on their own and they study and they get their license and then the clubs hangs them out to dry.
Even just advice - as per which radio would suit a persons needs best.
The radios I own only does FM - not SSB.

I bought two Yaesu 8900R - Quad Band radios and never realized that they did not have SSB.
I bought a used Alinco - with no mic at a hamfest for $50.00 and have been fighting with it ever since.
A club member gave me a old ADI mic. It was falling apart and wouldn't transmit half the time and when it did - it sounded like crap.

I spent 5 hours the other day trying out mic's until I found one that I could get to work with the ADI 146 radio I bought at a SK auction.

Still trying to get another mic to work with the Alinco.
Wasted another 6 hours today trying to wire a old junk mic from parts I had laying around and I forgot how to wire the element to the board and it was all for nothing.

When a person only has a limited amount of funds to spend on Amateur Radio, and when the swap meets are full of junk no one wants - its hard for any green horn to start out with nothing these days.
Its no wonder why these people resorts to buying a cheap $100 handheld.

So you ask - why are the repeaters dead?
Put the shoe on the other foot.
Why doesn't people sell good used equipment at hamfests in Pennsylvania?
Or why don't more clubs have hamfests?
Or - why is it that the vultures circles the houses of the dead and dying, trying to be the first in line to walk in the door and steal the ham radio equipment of the dearly departed?
And you never hear of anyone getting rid of someone's equipment - until after - the people who calls themselves real hams - has had a chance to go through everything, stealing all the good stuff for themselves and then telling the owners family what a good job they are doing of appraising the junk at a higher price for them so they can recoup their loses.

You get to the point of where you wonder - where does all this new ham radio equipment go?
You see it for top dollar all the time on Ebay - but you never see it for sale in a local newspaper or a club newsletter.

Without affordable equipment - what is the use of trying to recruit new hams, especially when the only thing you have to offer them is the advice to get a J Pole to increase their range and that it will save them a lot of money....

It isn't just the fault of new hams who gets a license and doesn't talk, it is also the fault of old hams who has this junk laying around and refuses to help others - because they are so busy fishing at the top of the dam - they refuse to look down at the cracks that are destroying the dam - because the fishing is so good. Only when the dam breaks - then they stand around pointing fingers at everyone else, trying to pass the blame on to everyone else.

20 more years and all these " " Old Hams are going to be dead.
Who have they recruited to take over the hobby after they are gone?
The same vultures who are rounding up everyone elses equipment and selling it on Ebay?
The people who call themselves hams - but never talks on radios except when there is a local net once a week - where they can say their call sign and no traffic? Or every morning where they can crow like a rooster on the HF!

Even the CB radio people doesn't want to be bothered with Ham Radio anymore.
 

902

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Nov 7, 2003
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Downsouthsomewhere
I have two repeaters. The 440 repeater is what we use to coordinate the activities of 6 people. We use it pretty heavily every day and a handful of friends also pop up on it at various times. The 2 meter repeater is like any other 2 meter repeater around here. You can hear the grass growing on it (or in my case, turning brown). We use it once in a while to make sure it still works. When we're on the road, we "guard" 146.52 CSQ. Sometimes it's active, sometimes it's not.

So what happened to it all? I remember back in the day a lot of guys would join the repeater club to use the autopatch. That was "cool" to make phone calls from the car. Now anyone can do it. A lot of the guys who used to drive around talking about nothing have retired and don't drive around as much. Kids are distracted by other things like texting. But ham radio was the original social network. The repeater was where it all came together. Today, you have places like Facebook and here. Twenty-four years ago, this conversation would have been taking place on the repeater. We didn't change, the mediums we use did. Instead of the 35 mile radius my original repeater in NJ had, RR is more or less worldwide.

After we moved, I waited a few months and listened around. I have a couple of clubs around here. When we were ready, my son and I went to a club meeting and now the whole family are members. They have all sorts of activities, not necessarily all amateur radio related. The last one was "kite day." There's bunny hunting (with all sorts of insidious hiding places), and traffic handling. I guess we're lucky. It's what you make it and people just say, "I'm going to... anybody want to come along?" and it happens.

I love zz0468's idea about going horizontal and doing weak signal work. I'm on 6, 2 and 432 with 2 DEMI transverters (those things are great!) and an Icom IC-910H. Working toward a DXCC or WAS could be more fun if you try it on 6 meters - and it takes more skill than HF. When it's not tuned to something specific on-band, it's all listening to VHF low band, high band, and UHF.

I'm convinced that I picked the right hobby. After 34 years of hamming, I've only scratched the surface and there's still much, much more for me to play with before I'm done - for as much or as little money as I choose to spend.

Welcome back. We've been waiting for you! :)
 

zz0468

QRT
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Well the problem is - where I live there are no ELMERS.

So, where do you live? No elmers? Try on-line forums. The help is there, the hardest part is finding it. And it might not be local.

I bought two Yaesu 8900R - Quad Band radios and never realized that they did not have SSB.

Some basic technical background should help you understand the advertised specifications. Do you have an ARRL handbook?

I bought a used Alinco - with no mic at a hamfest for $50.00 and have been fighting with it ever since...

Sometimes it's cheaper and easier to just buy a new microphone. Random mics frequently don't work right when attached to random radios.

When a person only has a limited amount of funds to spend on Amateur Radio, and when the swap meets are full of junk no one wants - its hard for any green horn to start out with nothing these days.

I understand the problem. This is where knowledge can help sort through the crap. There are some bargains to be had at swap meets, to be sure, but when you're looking in the cheap pile, the risk of getting something that's beyond your particular skill level is greater. That's just the way it is, and the answer is to raise your skill level to meet the challenge.

Its no wonder why these people resorts to buying a cheap $100 handheld.

Indeed. And they end up with the perfect radio to kerchunk an unpopulated repeater.

So you ask - why are the repeaters dead?
Put the shoe on the other foot.

The answer is, all of the above. Snooty repeater groups, lack of elmers, lack of ready to use quality used equipment, boredom with the whole repeater scene... I could go on, but I won't.

Why doesn't people sell good used equipment at hamfests in Pennsylvania?

They probably do. But the good stuff is expensive. And why not? The sellers probably paid a lot for it, and if it's actually good, selling it at a fair price is, well... only fair.

Or why don't more clubs have hamfests?

Because someone would have to work at it. Many clubs are just lazy. Find one that isn't. They're out there.

Or - why is it that the vultures circles the houses of the dead and dying, trying to be the first in line to walk in the door and steal the ham radio equipment of the dearly departed?

Because ham radio has it's fair share of cretins and ghouls.

And you never hear of anyone getting rid of someone's equipment - until after...

Which is one reason I stay away from estate sales.

You get to the point of where you wonder - where does all this new ham radio equipment go?

eBay.

You see it for top dollar all the time on Ebay - but you never see it for sale in a local newspaper or a club newsletter.

Have you checked Craigslist?

Without affordable equipment - what is the use of trying to recruit new hams, especially when the only thing you have to offer them is the advice to get a J Pole to increase their range and that it will save them a lot of money....

Thing is, there IS affordable equipment out there. There's tons of it. But the cheaper it is, the more work you're likely to have to do to get it going. And you have to hunt it down. It's not gonna come banging on your door and say "Here I am". BTW, the hunt for equipment is 3/4 of the fun!

It isn't just the fault of new hams who gets a license and doesn't talk, it is also the fault of old hams who has this junk laying around and refuses to help others...

Absolutely true. Which is why I tend to help other hams here with radios and parts, and test equipment. I sometimes NEED to recover my money from a specific piece of equipment, but sometimes I give it away. I have a standing offer for a number of people that, if they get their ham licenses, I'll GIVE them a radio. (local friends and family only, please. I can't extend that offer to internet acquaintances).

20 more years and all these " " Old Hams are going to be dead...

Yep. So stay away from 2 meter FM and HF nets. But there's HF QRP, HF mobile, CW, DX'ing, VHF experimentation, 6 meters, moonbounce, ATV, microwave, UHF/SHF tropo, meteor scatter, 10 meter SSB, 900 MHz repeaters, homebrewing, and... and... and...

Even the CB radio people doesn't want to be bothered with Ham Radio anymore.

A sad commentary, indeed. The point I'm trying to make is, the hobby is whatever you want to make of it. But YOU have to make it. For those willing to acquire the knowledge and do the work, there are few limits. For those looking for a cheap 2 meter radio to talk on the local repeaters, well, you get what you pay for.
 
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k3cfc

Silent Key
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Feb 27, 2011
Messages
715
Location
Beavertown Pa.
When i started out in ham radio i was lucky. there is a man here in lycoming county that is a true Elmer. he will help anyone that needs it. i have seen him go to Philadelphia to put up an antenna and didn't charge him a dime for anything. in my book this is beyond an Elmer. now on the the money part. if you are good at electronics then you can deal with crappy equipment. when i started out i bought two adi 147 radios and an icom t7h handy talky. then on the advice of Elmer i bought a kenwood ts430s that i have today along with a kenwood ts450s. you mentioned a j pole. well i built one and i have it today and it works just fine but of all of the information i see on the construction of one of these antennas they don't mention you need to make an eight inch loop three turns of the coax at the antenna to match the impedance if you make a j pole with exact measurements they will preform very well. you say you wasted many hours working on junk equipment it is not wasted it is a learning experience. if you are looking for elmers to help you look no farther than right here.

Good luck and keep on plugging away.
 

902

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Downsouthsomewhere
Why doesn't people sell good used equipment at hamfests in Pennsylvania?
Hang on there! Pennsylvania used to have the BEST hamfest I've ever been to - There was a time when Packrats in Warrington had just about anything. I walked away with a 33 MHz Motrac base station (and probably got a hernia carrying it to the parking lot, but...) and a whole bunch of VHF weak signal stuff back in the day. Come to think of it, the Knight Raiders had a great hamfest in East Rutherford inside a church. Rows and rows of tables. LIMARC in Islip Long Island had a wonderful hamfest. There was another one in South Jersey where I bought my 6 meter beam and FT-620B (both used); I've talked to Central and South America on them, as well as to Europe. There was one up in Westchester where I bought my prized Zenith Transoceanic 3000 for $20. The Bergen Amateur Radio Association hamfest in Paramus was pretty cool. These are all an hour or two drive from eastern PA.

But that was years ago.

The hamfests I've been to now are more social events to go see people you haven't seen in years. People either sell their stuff on eBay (because they can and someone might pay what they're asking for) or just dumpster it or sell it for scrap metal.

This is very much what you choose to make it.
 

Token

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Jun 18, 2010
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Mojave Desert, California, USA
Well the problem is - where I live there are no ELMERS.
So a person goes out on their own and they study and they get their license and then the clubs hangs them out to dry.
Even just advice - as per which radio would suit a persons needs best.
The radios I own only does FM - not SSB.
So the modern US ham radio licensing rules have resulted in the highest number of ham licenses in US history (last numbers I saw were over 700,000)…and on AVERAGE less informed ham radio operators. Note that this is not a code vs no-code issue, it is much deeper than that, although the code requirement does play into it…not quite the same way some people claim though.

You touched on part of the problem in your post, Elmers, or lack there-of. But also, the lack of a perceived need for Elmers.

Today a person can decide they want a ham license, for whatever reason, and spend two weeks or less studying the testing pool and taking online test until they repeatedly pass, go to a VE session, walk away with a pass, and have the callsign on the server in less than 2 weeks. If they have a good memory and no technical background at all they can do this to the highest licensing level, Extra. Realistically go from never knowingly talked to a ham radio op to being licensed and “legal” to use ham radio in every legal mode, every legal band, and really significant power levels in less than a month and the only time they might have talked with another ham could be the VEs at the licensing session. Now, what does that ham know about ham radio? If it was not a question on the test to be remembered by rote then the answer is quite possibly nothing.

Yes, I know I have presented the worst case scenario here, but one that is easily possible, indeed if you take the one month time line and stretch it to say three months to allow for scheduling conflicts I can point to real life examples that I have talked with.

Prior to the current no-code, simplified test, test pool online for free trial testing until you can pass, system you would realistically never run into a ham who did NOT have an Elmer of some kind who got him to the license. When even the lowest class license (Novice) required code, reading simple schematics, and drawing simple circuits, the effort required was “more” than today. Of course, more effort does not always mean “better” or more “knowledgeable” hams, but it does tend to weed out the less dedicated. The rest of the story is you essentially NEVER saw a ham, under the code required system, get a license without help from another, more knowledgeable, ham, an “Elmer”.

While it was possible to teach yourself code, and read books to gather the information needed to pass the test, it just never really happened that way. Most who tried it that way got exasperated and bailed on the whole thing. A very, very, few succeeded.

IMPORTANT POINT HERE - But it is just as much the duty of the newbie to find an Elmer as it is for an Elmer to find the newbie, it is a friendship, not a requirement. In the past with things like Boy Scouts, youth organizations, Ham Radio clubs in High Schools (wow, how many of those still exist in today’s budget strapped school systems?), and other personal contact activities that did not involve online living, the newbie had more of an option to “find” an Elmer. The relationship with an Elmer should start BEFORE the newbie is licensed.

And the Elmer does more than help a ham to learn the minimum to pass a test. He/she teaches operating practices, etiquette, how to spot good gear at a hamfest, advice gained from his/her own past. How to apply the theory that was learned to pass the test, like the fact that 80 M is a great regional and local band at night…but what does that mean? 6M is VHF, just like 2M and 222, but has some interesting propagation at times, so you might want to make sure your gear on 6M does SSB and CW. And 2M may be a good band for FM repeater ops but weak signal work is a blast also…if you have a horizontal Yagi and weak signal modes.
I bought two Yaesu 8900R - Quad Band radios and never realized that they did not have SSB.
I bought a used Alinco - with no mic at a hamfest for $50.00 and have been fighting with it ever since.
A club member gave me a old ADI mic. It was falling apart and wouldn't transmit half the time and when it did - it sounded like crap.
What made you think the 8900’s had SSB? The specifications sheets and brochures are pretty clear on what modes they do support. There are a lot of things those radios do not do…but very few radios in history have had so much capability in such a small package and at such a low cost.

When you got that Alinco, did you know it did not have a microphone? My assumption is yes, and so you purchased something second hand that was incomplete, and took it upon yourself to make it complete. And, if the radio is otherwise working, except for the mic, $50 is not a bad deal at all, not a deal of a lifetime, but not bad.

Hmmm…complaining about something you were given for free?
When a person only has a limited amount of funds to spend on Amateur Radio, and when the swap meets are full of junk no one wants - its hard for any green horn to start out with nothing these days.
Its no wonder why these people resorts to buying a cheap $100 handheld.
In most cases people have had limited funds to spend on ham radio. I did a LOT of chores for people in the neighborhood and around the house to get the money to buy my first transmitter that was not scratch built. And it came from a swap meet…it was junk that someone else did not want, and I had to fix it before I could turn it on.

It is no harder today for a “green horn” to start out then it has ever been. And some would argue it is easier. When something like a SoftRock Ensemble II (complete HF coverage, all band, all mode) can be combined with a low power transmitter kit or scratch built CW transmitter and get a person on HF with FAR greater capability than a newbie of the past, and all for under $150 in new gear ($22 spending value when I put my first station on the air), that is pretty sweet. Of course, few want to go that route today, who wants to build a transmitter or do CW, but that would have been pretty standard in the “old” days of the hams you are comparing to.

There are three major groups of ham equipment at any swap meet, just as it has always been. “Junk” that the seller does not want any longer (might be something good, but the seller sees it as junk he does not want), good equipment being flipped for profit (why sell something good at a loss if you can help it?), and every once in a great while someone selling something good that they do not know the value of….most generally picked up by one of the people who will flip it at the next swap meet, because they see it first.

Why doesn't people sell good used equipment at hamfests in Pennsylvania?
Or why don't more clubs have hamfests?

You think this is a new problem? Hamfest everywhere have always not had enough good used equipment. There is a limited amount of good used equipment out there that the people who own do not want, you can’t “make” more. Most hams want clubs to have more hamfests, but they often are quite an effort to put on…do you help organize and man one?

T!
 
K

kb0nly

Guest
Linked repeaters has been good to us here, so i can't agree with your analogy of it being a terrible thing. I can sit in my living room and bring up my repeater on my HT which is linked via the internet to another pair of repeaters that are RF linked, with a fourth one that can come online as well.

Its hit or miss hearing someone around here as well, but its more related to the time of year. Seems like winter time the radio stays pretty busy, bad weather equals radio days... What some people seem to overlook is we live busier lives now days as well. I remember ten years ago 2m would be active day and night, but then also there was times that the band was open all day long and distant repeaters were new and fun and it kept a lot of guys on the air, simplex would be rattling on all night in the summer, etc... Now days its go go go, and radio when you have free time. I am lucky to get 4-5 hours in the shack in a week now days, i used to spend that much per evening sitting there monkeying around with the radios. So its just a sign of the times and lifestyles more than anything, doesn't mean its dying off, as a matter of fact our numbers are at an all time high!
 

902

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2,636
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Downsouthsomewhere
Linking?

Linked repeaters has been good to us here, so i can't agree with your analogy of it being a terrible thing. I can sit in my living room and bring up my repeater on my HT which is linked via the internet to another pair of repeaters that are RF linked, with a fourth one that can come online as well.
I played around with Echolink and IRLP, too. I thought they were the greatest thing, but wish there was some kind of quality control. For example, someone on Echolink would connect into my repeater randomly. People would call, and that was fine, but they'd forget to drop the link and leave it up. Then they'd get into a local QSO with no pauses. My repeater would now be playing the hang time, courtesy tone beeps, CW ID (or talking ID), in addition to whatever else was going on. There were many times where I couldn't access my own repeater, or break the link because the control station was pretty much locked in transmit. Even if I wanted to join the QSO, I couldn't because their hang times and beeps were keeping my system keyed consistently. So, the Echolink server eventually became a buddy list of people and systems we knew didn't lock ours up. I scrapped Echolink and then went to IRLP, but it was more difficult to use with CentOS Linux command line requirements. I thought IRLP was a much better system, had better quality control because it had rules for how it got hooked up, and better audio.

What bugs me are spectrum inefficient local systems. These are RF linked repeaters that operate on dozens of frequency pairs and backbone frequencies carrying the same one conversation over a very wide area. That's not so much an issue these days with lean usage, but when repeaters were crowded and pairs were scarce, it was frustrating to tune through and hear the same thing in 15 different places (much like AM radio is today). It's a neat trick and it takes a lot of work and investment, but it's a whole lot less impressive than doing the same thing on one frequency pair, using simulcast transmitters and a voting comparator and having that one repeater pair covering 100,000 miles. Best scheme I ever saw for that was WB2MAZ's 6 meter repeater, which hopscotched NJ's Garden State Parkway alternating 53.47 and 53.49 as outputs. When you get too far out of 53.47, switch to 53.49 and you're receiving loud and clear. The input frequency was the same for each of the two pairs, so the only thing you were switching was the repeater output channel. The input side was the same and was voted from each site. So, 3 frequencies gave you just about statewide coverage. :cool:
 

Howdy_All

Completely Banned for the Greater Good
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Messages
36
I think that some people here are missing the point entirely that I was trying to make and I also think that maybe some of the thieves out there - monkeys in the trees that I shook a little too hard are now falling to the ground and are making a lot of noise because they don't like people shaking their trees.

I will start off by saying that my family has been involved in communications since about 1964 or there about's.
Television since the 1950's
I have been around communications - two way communications since about 1970 and amateur radio since about 1978.

When I was in high school, one of the classes I took was called Power Technologies.
The teacher was a OLD HAM - having been a ham and in communications since about the late 1930's.
The town was FULL of OLD HAMS - but you never seen a single piece of their equipment ever being advertised in the local newspapers.

The Citizens Band people were always the first in line.
Looking for the Yaesu FT 101's and the amplifiers, because it was much easier to modify amateur radio equipment for use on the 11 meters then to actually go out and buy the illegal stuff, and if you could find someone to make it or sell it to you and the quality was never there from a stand point of filtering, harmonic's and rejection.

When I was a kid - unless you had a Sponsor - you couldn't get into the local high school ham radio club and I was not from the right side of the tracks.

Ham radio people back then were all educated and for the most part SNOBS - who built clubs to keep others out - not let others in!

When I bought my radio - I had no knowledge of SSB 2 meters.
I didn't have any books or anyone to talk to.
Even the locals were nothing more then over glorified cb radio operators - because they only got their license because they were looking for a quieter place to talk - other then the 11 meters and probably someone amongst them had got caught at one time or another freebanding and decided not to do it anymore.
It was safer for them to get a license and to operate legally on the ham bands then to use a band which back then was still being used by the government for one thing or another. All the REAL / old hams in my part of the world are now DEAD!

I never said I knew it all, what I did say is that I went and asked many people and none of them were willing to say anything good or bad about any radio or to give any advice because none of them were hams around here and there still isn't any hams around here.

I bought the Yaesu FT 8900 rig because it afforded me the luxury of being able to work 4 bands, 9 10 / 6 / 2 / 440 ), being able to use it for APRS / Packet and a whole list of other things such as cross band repeat.

WESTERN Pennsylvania - where I live, only has a couple of hamfests per a year - Butler Fairgrounds, Butler - fire company, Somerset, North Pittsburgh, McKeesport etc - maybe even Sharon PA - I do not know anymore.

The point is - those people are only there to pawn off the stuff that does not work and the stuff that is unusable and that they keep the stuff that does work, even when they do not have a use for it - just to keep someone else from getting it and selling it at a profit.
It's hard to sell anything when the stuff you are trying to sell is no good and there is no one to repair it for you and even if you did repair it - it wouldn't be cost effective as opposed to just going out and buying new and having a warranty...

I have a ELMER that is famous in ham radio circles.
Only - to see my Elmer, I have to drive 120 miles away.
When I say my ELMER knows Kay Craigie - I mean he KNOWS Kay Craigie personally - I think he was once involved with the Frankfort Radio club... Can't quite remember.
When I say he knows Bob Heil - it isn't like these other people who says they know Bob Heil, it is that he picks up the telephone and calls Bob personally on his cell phone the way you call your kids or your brothers or sisters.

The problem is - there was no VE test sessions in my neighborhood for 20 years .
SO - there is no new hams in my area 9 20 square miles ) my own age or younger then me - that I can do things with or even talk to....
There is maybe one real HAM in each community - if you were really lucky.
More then likely - there is one HAM in each county, and in some counties there is only one HAM that owns a HF radio - I can use Potter County as a example for this one. McKeon county as another.
I know there is only one ham in Bradford PA and it isn't Bill Edgar - even though he is the representative for this district for the ARRL....
I talk on the radio every day and I have never heard him on the radio.

I see this kind of mentality going on in every community.
Even worse - I see the leaders of the local clubs, some of which has not even been a licensed ham for more then 5 years running the show because no one else wants to do it.
There is no intelligence anymore in amateur radio.
There is no one like me who will stand up on his or her soap box and is willing to let people sling arrows at them when they tell these new hams that it is not acceptable to buy a handheld radio as a good first radio - because it doesn't do anything where I live except get into one or two repeaters.

It isn't acceptable to put up a J Pole or a mag mount antenna on a rain gutter and expect it to be your primary source of communications - because it doesn't talk anywhere / except to the local repeater....

It isn't good to buy cheap 8X coax or cheap connectors - because they are lossy on the upper bands and because it is a waste of money if you are trying to work DX and want to keep all the signal your antenna can get you.

I will say - the manufacturers do offer some acceptable mobile rigs which can be used as base stations for UHF and VHF.
In the grand scheme of things - I am more then pleased with the range my radios can get me - even with my meager antenna's.
My antenna ( Diamond X 50 ) and a (Diamond Discone ) is only 16' and 32' off the ground.
My goal is to get A Diamond X 510 up about 40' AGL this summer and to purchase a better antenna / antenna's for all bands and to help as many hams into the hobby as I can before I die.

Just in the last year - I have encouraged 10 people to either get a upgrade or a ham radio license. How many people did you bring into the hobby?
I am not one of those guys who is just out for myself.

Thinking about it - I have to admit there is no cheap base stations for sale for UHF / VHF only which can be bought by an average person just wanting to get into amateur radio.
Actually there is not a lot of base station set ups to be had - just looking at the AES and HRO catalog.

Where I live at - most everyone of the guys in the club I belonged to owns a ICOM 746 Pro which does 2 meters and the HF.....
The problem is - when I got on the internet - I found that it was a piece of junk and a lot of people who actually used it - had problems with it and they paid once or twice to have them fixed and then they tried to sell them for almost as much as what they paid for it.

HAMS - TENDS NOT TO GET RID OF ANYTHING UNLESS THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH IT.

I tried my darnedest to save my money last summer and I scoured the Ebay / Craigslist trying to find a acceptable radio for use as a good first radio and none were to be had at a reasonable price.

The radio I did settle on is a Kenwood TS 590S - which is now the benchmark by which all other radios will be compared to - in my opinion - because it does so much for the mere $1800.00 that I paid for it.

The downside is - I have had problems with it ever since I purchased an amplifier shortly after I bought the radio. The amplifier is a Ameritron ALS 600 - which has sat on the floor because it doesn't work right.

The radio is only showing 60 watts on the output and the amplifier needs about 75 to produce 500 watts output. The " HAMS " around here all told me not to drive the amp with more then 45 watts drive, which made my signals less then when I was using the Kenwood by itself, if that makes any sense.

The "hams" around here - all offered to "GIVE" me $100 for my amplifier.
One ham even offered to "GIVE" me a used Icom 2 meter mobile radio (IC 2100) in exchange for another amplifier I own - a Dentron GLA 1000B... Lot's of nice people around here willing to help me out - carry away the one or two good deals that I did manage to find.

The other thing I am going to say is - NO - you cannot work on your own equipment anymore when it comes to modern equipment.
All the crap in my radio is surface mount technology and if you try to work on it by yourself - you will probably ruin more then what you will fix.
Out of the two Yaesu's I own , one is broke and I sent it to be fixed by a family member that does that kind of stuff for a living and it has been in his shop for 4+ months and I have not seen it since.- when times are good - you are making money and you don't have time to fix things for others.


As far as repairing or buying a factory stock microphones goes - when it is a off brand such as ADI or Alinco - good luck.
Do a internet search and the only thing you will find is a pin out.
I have found sites that has other mic's in it - but nothing that is a direct replacement.
If you added up all the time that I have spent - ( 3 days ), trying to make them ( two microphones for two radios ).
I could have went to work and bought 2 brand new radios and not had the aggravation..
Sometimes it just isn't worth the bother to mess around with old junk, because when I am doing those things, I am not reading or learning code or doing other ham radio things and my time is really limited when it comes to ham radio and being able to do ham radio - because I have to look for a job a couple of hours a day and my life has gotten so complicated that between being sick all the time and trying to help out others - I don't get a lot of my own stuff done.

Sun shine days it just kills me when I am in the house and when it rains, I can justify not doing anything outside.
If I had a garage, at least I could clean up tower and do things constructive.

I am going to continue trying to do REAL ham radio type things - even if those around me gets mad because I am not the best person when it comes to tact - I am a good person when it comes to teaching how not to do things. If I can turn even just a couple of these LIDS into real hams - my job is done.

I'm trying to start something here.
Maybe someday you will be reading your QST Magazine and you will read an article about me or my shack or my club and it will toggle something in your memory and you will remember me.
Maybe it will be the new ham I gave the old ALINCO or ADI radio to.
Maybe it will be the new ham I gave the 2 meters antenna to.
Maybe it will be the new / old ham - I went to his / her house and put up a antenna for them.,
Maybe it will be the new / old ham that I went to their house and gave them a power supply.

I am trying to break the cycle which so many people have come to expect as the rule when it comes to being a Amateur Radio person and only being out for themselves - unless you are in some kind of buddy club.

I became a VE for the Laurel VEC and for the ARRL and I have drove 100's of miles to give exam's.
I'm not done yet - but if I can rub off on some other people - maybe some people will come to realize that my way isn't the wrong way and that my way might be the right way.
In 25 years, I might get good enough that I could become a Elmer myself and pass on some of what I had learned.
The problem is - I am sick and I am not going to live that long.

If people were not just out for themselves and weren't just passing on their old junk to me, and if they were showing me how to repair things that were broke - maybe I might leave my stuff to them or to some club that wanted to be a real club and help people out.

The problem is - these kids now a days has had everything handed to them for so long that they are not willing to do anything that costs anything and are not willing to spend one thin dime on amateur radio equipment... All they want to do is get a license and talk.
Beam Me Up Scottie - There Is No Intelligence Here!
 
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pjtnascar

Member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
368
Location
Sussex County, NJ
Woah, Howdy! I got my tech license last June and upgraded to General in January. We are lucky here in Northern New Jersey to have some active repeaters. We have two clubs in the area, and yes, the guys in the one club are snobs and drive people off the repeater. Screw them! The best thing you can do is get a few local guys to get their ticket, or if they are hams, get them to come onto a repeater and QSO. I did that with a new ham friend (that I met on here in a CB forum-got our tickets a month apart) on a privately owned repeater. Slowly but surely hams gravitated to the repeater saying "wow I monitored this for a long time and it was always dead." Eventually the owner of the repeater came on and was actually a nice guy and has become sort of an Elmer.

What equipment did I buy to start out with? A TYT UVF-1 for $129.00. I have since acquired an Icom IC-718 from ebay (thanks to a guy on the repeater lookin out for me) and a used Alinco 70cm mobile radio (used) and an automatic LDG antenna tuner (used) and a bunch of other stuff.

My point is, look for used equip, but buy intelligently. QRZ.com is a great source. Ebay is great too, but be prudent, and use Paypal. Try to find local sellers who will be less likely to screw you. It also doesn't hurt to connect with people here on the forum in your area. Once you find a home repeater frequency to hang out on, bring a friend. Others will follow. I am just as poor if not poorer than you are and I did it. Sell some of that junk that isn't working for you and buy something you like. Sounds like you're on your way with the Kenwood.

BTW-You don't need an amp to work HF-I do it all the time with the Icom IC-718, stock, with an offcenter fed dipole. Plenty of QSO's on 80m, 40m, 20m with it.
 
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