where are all the 2 meter operators?

[kayn1n32008]

The problem comes in with all this cross linking of talk groups or people jump in even on the local group with a crap radio.

The belief that we need to link every damn mode together, and ever separate network to each other drives me nuts.

If I wanted to listen to DStar, Fusion or DMR, I'd use those modes. If I'm on P25, I don't want it transcoded to DMR, Fusion, DStar and NXDN.

 

[kc2asb]

No comparison to a legitimate commercial radio. I have both the 536 and 996XT, there's no comparison. My Unications come closer but still not usually the winner.

You know what a poor receiver decoding P25 sounds like, not what P25 actually sounds like.

Very true. I have not listened to P25 on a quality commercial radio. I suppose the difference could be like comparing an AM pocket radio to the rich AM audio from the Hammarlund HQ-129X I have in my collection. (thanks to my uncle and his father-in-law!) AM can sound great when listening on a quality receiver.

Thanks for all of the information! I'm not ready to jump in yet, but I will tune around and see if I can pick up any P25 on VHF/UHF amateur bands.

 

[KQ4ZVY]

I swear, one of the former tecknishuns that was in our club, had a fetish for green painters tape for labeling EVERYTHING. but label makers are expensive.

did that person have any training in academic science labs? sharpie and colored masking tape are the labeling tools of choice there

 

[K9KLC]

The belief that we need to link every damn mode together, and ever separate network to each other drives me nuts.

If I wanted to listen to DStar, Fusion or DMR, I'd use those modes. If I'm on P25, I don't want it transcoded to DMR, Fusion, DStar and NXDN.

Exactly. There's a system connected to a DMR repeater (the only one I can hit on an HT from home) and it drives me nuts when that's blabbing this that and the other at multiple different volume levels. Now then, this is when it's working. Often the case it's not all working as they think and if you go in on "this mode" then it won't come back out on "that mode" or it's going one way and not the other or what have you. I honestly wish they'd take that one off Static on the DMR repeater, it ties up a time slot when there's no need to.

 

[MTS2000des]

Linking analog FM to any digital mode is a great trigger of Misophonia.

 

[alcahuete]

...and it drives me nuts when that's blabbing this that and the other at multiple different volume levels.

Motorola radio with audio leveling...absolutely life changing.

 

[K9KLC]

Motorola radio with audio leveling...absolutely life changing.

Garbage in = garbage out. If my 7550 won't cut it I just won't listen there. As stated above, if I wanted to be on other digital voice modes I'd go there. It's so i frequent I use any repeater that has that stuff on it, it's not worth spending more money on anyway.

 

[alcahuete]

Garbage in = garbage out. If my 7550 won't cut it I just won't listen there. As stated above, if I wanted to be on other digital voice modes I'd go there. It's so i frequent I use any repeater that has that stuff on it, it's not worth spending more money on anyway.

You were referring to "multiple different volume levels." The 7550 will level that out and you never have to worry about it. I don't even know if the volume knobs on my 5550s or 7550s work anymore. I literally haven't touched them in years. Well...okay, I have to turn the power on using the volume knob on the 7550.

 

[K9KLC]

You were referring to "multiple different volume levels." The 7550 will level that out and you never have to worry about it. I don't even know if the volume knobs on my 5550s or 7550s work anymore. I literally haven't touched them in years. Well...okay, I have to turn the power on using the volume knob on the 7550.

Pardon my poor wording. Perhaps different audio types or distortion levels may have been better. At any rate, my comment stands, the mixing of audio on the TG I'm talking about is simply horrible with trying to link P-25, Yaesu's version of C4FM, D-star, DMR, and now echo link simply isn't for me.

Yes the 7550 does great at "different volume levels" when everyone is on DMR. Perhaps some of the problem is the way it's mixed all together at the server side, since I actually have little interest in internet stuff on my radio, I'm not sure how all that works honestly.

 

[K9KLC]

you will wonder why you are suffering using DMR

Because we already have the equipment and infrastructure for it. At 70 I'm not apt to suddenly spend more time and money to invest in yet another digital mode I rarely use anyway. I have an Older P25 VHF HT and mobile I've had for about 5 years now. Neither have been on in well over 3 years. Truthfully guess what? We have activity on analog and DMR in my area. I'm happy to just keep that alive.

 

[DeoVindice]

Interesting. I know what P25 sounds from listening to my Uniden 536HP/996T. My ear has always preferred analog, which I guess makes me a bit of a dinosaur.

Never thought about using P25 for 2M/440/etc and had not planned to buy any new equipment right now. Are you using surplus commercial radios? It's certainly worth listening first to see how much P25 is being used around here.

Primarily surplus EFJ and Motorola, as well as some new Viking gear. It's worth a look through Repeaterbook; simplex will probably need to be arranged with operators you already know.

 

[K9KLC]

It's worth a look through Repeaterbook; simplex will probably need to be arranged with operators you already know.

Exactly. We have a couple repeaters in our area that say they do P-25 none of which I can hit on an HT. The simplex contacts we made were pre-arranged via texting on the phone which seemed counter productive, but hey, we wanted to test. I'm not going to tie up my VHF antenna on a radio (the mobile radio whether on the base or mobile) I cannot FPP if needed. I do 95% analog on VHF/UHF and a lot of that is simplex. Lately we've had a 1.25 meter repeater come back to life in our area and we're messing with some 33cm stuff. I have most of hte digital voice modes, frankly D-Star is my favorite again, simplex. Next would be DMR used both simplex and thru the DMR repeater about 20 miles out which I can usually hit and work from most my HT's. I have a Yaesu FTM-300 that sits in the box, don't care for the radio or Yaesu's implementation of C4FM I also have C4FM on my 991A and again, unless it's some kind of event, rarely sees any C4FM usage.

Ham radio is what you, the operator make of it. Get out there and have fun.

 

[Spider255]

I don't mind when there is a local FM repeater linked to Freestar, it can be enjoyable having Freestar on my old Tait T2015 ex-business transceiver. I agree with audio levels, it can get annoying having to adjust the volume when one station has very quiet audio and another has very loud audio but it doesn't happen often and can also happen with analog FM. I noticed this more on DMR.

I enjoy analog because its point to point communications without the aid of the internet. I wouldn't want analog being totally replaced with digital modes/internet linking.

 

[kc2asb]

I don't mind when there is a local FM repeater linked to Freestar, it can be enjoyable having Freestar on my old Tait T2015 ex-business transceiver. I agree with audio levels, it can get annoying having to adjust the volume when one station has very quiet audio and another has very loud audio but it doesn't happen often and can also happen with analog FM. I noticed this more on DMR.

I enjoy analog because its point to point communications without the aid of the internet. I wouldn't want analog being totally replaced with digital modes/internet linking.

I agree. When a connection to the internet is involved, it's no longer radio. In an emergency/disaster situation, it's even more important to have point-to-point ability without relying on an internet connection.

Digital modes are great, and I would like to experience a QSO using P25 on a quality radio. However, I hope analog will still have a place in the hobby for some time to come.

 

[K9KLC]

I have done point to point on D-Star, P-25, DMR and last and certainly least is Yaesu's implementation of C4FM. Using simplex it is just another digital mode. In day in and out usage I run a Kenwood 741 and mobile 641 both with 2 meters, 1.25 meters, and 70cm. Ya I hope analog is around a long time too. I guess if I was ever confined to a nursing facility (hey @70 anything is possible) I'll revisit some of the hotspot stuff. Until then just not for me.

 

[KQ4ZVY]

I think internet backed modes present an interesting thought experiment for exploring what you value about the hobby.

For example, if I get on an HT and talk to a repeater, there's other radios in the mix receiving and rebroadcasting me in real time. The broadcast radio is physically right next to the input system, but there's a conceptual separation between the two. I'm fine with that, it still feels "real" to me.

Okay, so what about the linked repeater system we have here in NC, the C440 network? I can get on that to talk to people on repeaters I'd never be able normally because physics, and it's happening because of linked UHF repeaters. (they also have setups for connecting to digital modes but setting those aside for now). It still feels "real" to me, even though major portions of the transmission path have nothing to do with my own radio.

So, internet-backed digital modes, they're really not that different from the user's perspective. You have an expensive device that you talk into and it connects to other devices and lets other people talk back to you. So why does it feel different?

I think for me, what makes the difference is knowing all the pain in the ass work that goes into building and maintaining a repeater system. There's something satisfying about knowing that I'm interacting with systems that had to be created - maintained, built, funded, etc - with nontrivial effort. If all I wanted to do was just talk to someone, we have phones and the internet, I have internet friends in Europe and Canada I can call on Discord with better fidelity than I'd ever get with a radio. What I like about the hobby is the collective tinkering aspect and the challenge of overcoming things with minimal resources, and going over the internet feels too easy for me.

Maybe I'm just hopelessly romantic.

 

[kc2asb]

I have done point to point on D-Star, P-25, DMR and last and certainly least is Yaesu's implementation of C4FM. Using simplex it is just another digital mode. In day in and out usage I run a Kenwood 741 and mobile 641 both with 2 meters, 1.25 meters, and 70cm. Ya I hope analog is around a long time too. I guess if I was ever confined to a nursing facility (hey @70 anything is possible) I'll revisit some of the hotspot stuff. Until then just not for me.

It was the hotspot stuff that I was thinking of, not P25, D-Star, DMR, etc. The more variety, the better. Using a hotspot would not "feel" like radio, IMHO. However, if the hobby is to remain relevant and grow, we need to be accepting of alternate ways of participating in it.

We still hear AM on the HF bands, long after SSB came to dominate. FM will continue to be used on VHF/UHF (and 10 meters) for a long time to come.

 

[K9KLC]

However, if the hobby is to remain relevant and grow, we need to be accepting of alternate ways of participating in it.

I am accepting of it, and if it's someone's thing that's great!! It's just not for me at this time. Ham radio is a widely diversified hobby, there's something for everyone.

 

[nokones]

I agree. When a connection to the internet is involved, it's no longer radio. In an emergency/disaster situation, it's even more important to have point-to-point ability without relying on an internet connection.

Digital modes are great, and I would like to experience a QSO using P25 on a quality radio. However, I hope analog will still have a place in the hobby for some time to come.

P25 sounds great. It is crystal clear and awesome sounding audio. No static, hissing, and squelch tails. I use P25 on my Motorola XTS/XTL mobile and portable radios.

 

[MTS2000des]

IP and "internet" are not synonymous. IP linked digital radio (both ham specific like D-Star and YSF) can exist on private networks as does P25, NXDN, DMR and TETRA do. A robust IP linked network using it's own back haul for part 97 is just as resilient and robust as a P25 commercial network. Don't write off digital radio with the misunderstanding that "it needs the internet to work" when real hams with real skills can construct their own private IP based backhaul using microwave or even in band RF to get it done.