Why go encrypted

[VPD24193]

When I first got my scanner the only town I ever really wanted to listen to but it was digital and they were using encryption. It was the Kearny NJ PD. My question is why use it it's not like there the FBI. Also has anyone ealse ever experienced something where they really wanna monitor a frequencies but can't cause of dumb problems like encryption/digital or just
Being to far away

 

[Danny6569]

encryption

some towns just dont want us to hear them its as simple as that i have a couple local towns near me that are encrypted too and theres really no way to get around it either it seems like just certain towns do it and not too many whole counties

 

[n5ims]

I'm not saying that everything should be encrypted, but there are some that may have a good reason to be encrypted (but currently aren't in some areas):

* An EMS unit communicating with a hospital where they must give specific medical facts that may be sensitive (and they just gave the pickup address so it's pretty trivial to find out who the patient is).

* A towing (or A/C servicing) company transmitting credit card info to their dispatch to bill for service. Please note that this info includes the full card number, expiration date, name as appears on the card, as well as the "special codes" from the back of the card. It's not too hard to see how this info can be misused.

* Communications from SWAT or Special Ops teams on active incidents, including current locations, positions, tactics, and even notifications that an officer has a "clear line of fire and head shot lined up".

* Communications from PD supervisors and an underling on what kinds of doughnuts and coffee choices to pick up.

 

[davidmc36]

Here's a reason why:

http://www.radioreference.com/forum...-almost-busted-scanning-near-crime-scene.html

 

[zerg901]

Maybe some police agencies dont want the FBI listening in. (The FBI investigates public corruption and color of law complaints.)

Federal Bureau of Investigation - Public Corruption

Federal Bureau of Investigation - Civil Rights - Color of Law

 

[C138NC]

I'm not saying that everything should be encrypted, but there are some that may have a good reason to be encrypted (but currently aren't in some areas):

* An EMS unit communicating with a hospital where they must give specific medical facts that may be sensitive (and they just gave the pickup address so it's pretty trivial to find out who the patient is).

* A towing (or A/C servicing) company transmitting credit card info to their dispatch to bill for service. Please note that this info includes the full card number, expiration date, name as appears on the card, as well as the "special codes" from the back of the card. It's not too hard to see how this info can be misused.

* Communications from SWAT or Special Ops teams on active incidents, including current locations, positions, tactics, and even notifications that an officer has a "clear line of fire and head shot lined up".

* Communications from PD supervisors and an underling on what kinds of doughnuts and coffee choices to pick up.

Now I can tell you a story about the last one you mentioned of a channel the last department, "can you pick me up a milkshake from cookout? what kind?" lol and then again the fire department has their ways too... 2 companies shopping east side and the other west side.. "what are you picking up? hey lets start a BBQ today if we dont get any calls... how about 4am?"

 

[zz0468]

Encryption is VERY expensive. It's not going to be used just to avoid the scanner-listening public. It's done because there is a perception that it will enhance officer safety and effectiveness.

I say "perception" because that is what the belief is. there is some truth and validity to that, but it ptobably also gets over stated. The bottom line is, dealing with drug cartels, organized crime, and "homeland security" issues, law enforcement feels the need to use whatever tools they have to make their jobs safer and easier. Encryption is just one of many tools...

 

[C138NC]

Then again you see people complaining the government is spending most of the money on high expensive radio systems for law enforcement and fire, hey i dont mind it one bit, if it helps everyone in that field work better, im all for it.

Then again you dont want to see nosy people come up to your calls either like those nosy news reporters... "see em all the time during my ride alongs" but a few i liked but others are just high end nosy

 

[zz0468]

Then again you dont want to see nosy people come up to your calls either like those nosy news reporters... "see em all the time during my ride alongs" but a few i liked but others are just high end nosy

Sound's like you're unaware of the fact that many law enforcement agencies actually provide radios to the press, specifically to address "open government" concerns.

Most politically savvy departments WANT those "nosy news reporters" to get the stories right.

 

[Septa3371CSX1]

As far as private businesses, they should use cell phones and Nextel to transmit any sensitive information. Much cheaper than encryption.

When it comes to public safety, I have a couple feelings on encrytion. One, I feel regular police dispatch should not be encyrpted. The public has a right to know where the cops are going and what's going on in town. If the cops feel they need to be encrypted, than an encryted dispatch channel should be provided (or you could use a P25 conventional channel with encryption capabilities). This way the public stays informed but the most sensitive stuff can be kept secure. Anything involving strike forces, SWAT, organized crime details, plain clothes, detectives, etc - all the sensitive stuff - should be encrypted. I have a bone to pick with the city of Philadelphia on this one - they insist on encrypting fire ground channels for BS reasons yet all the sensitive police stuff is digital but in the clear (such as drug survelliance). I also feel some towns use encryption as a cover up. I feel Brick Township, NJ has all the police stuff encrypted as part of a cover up so they can continue to get recognized as the best place to live in NJ. My girlfriend knows somebody who lives in Brick and she told me they covered a lot of stuff up in order to get that recognition. Thus I feel the encryption is employed so nobody knows what's going on in terms of crime.

In conclusion, encryption is a good tool but it needs to be used wisely. Routine law dispatch should be in the clear but anything sensitive should be encrypted. That's my feeling.

 

[bootsfirst]

As a dispatcher, I'd prefer everything be encrypted so scanner nuts can't listen to it.

But then again, I'm kind of a scanner nut. So I prefer no encryption.

 

[K8TEK]

Then again you see people complaining the government is spending most of the money on high expensive radio systems for law enforcement and fire, hey i dont mind it one bit, if it helps everyone in that field work better, im all for it.

Then again you dont want to see nosy people come up to your calls either like those nosy news reporters... "see em all the time during my ride alongs" but a few i liked but others are just high end nosy

They are just doing their jobs. That is kind of like belittling a doctor for being helpful, a firefighter to be fast or a rocket scientist for being knowledgeable about rockets.

 

[gewecke]

Re ;encryption...

There is a local taxi cab company in my area which is actually licensed 0n 464.050mhz.but they are encrypted,or actually just scrambled using single inversion...all the time.
Still chuckling over the idea that their license doesn't allow that perk.

 

[mondaro]

I'm not saying that everything should be encrypted, but there are some that may have a good reason to be encrypted (but currently aren't in some areas):

* An EMS unit communicating with a hospital where they must give specific medical facts that may be sensitive (and they just gave the pickup address so it's pretty trivial to find out who the patient is).

* A towing (or A/C servicing) company transmitting credit card info to their dispatch to bill for service. Please note that this info includes the full card number, expiration date, name as appears on the card, as well as the "special codes" from the back of the card. It's not too hard to see how this info can be misused.

* Communications from SWAT or Special Ops teams on active incidents, including current locations, positions, tactics, and even notifications that an officer has a "clear line of fire and head shot lined up".

* Communications from PD supervisors and an underling on what kinds of doughnuts and coffee choices to pick up.

I been an EMT for 20 years and on the job for 28 years never had to give a patients name over a radio
really no need to.

Tony M.
Harrison, NJ

 

[n5ims]

I been an EMT for 20 years and on the job for 28 years never had to give a patients name over a radio

The name isn't the key piece of info in the following traffic:

"Medic 2 to dispatch. Code 3 from 1234 Main St. to Central Hospital."

"Medic 2 to Central Hospital"

"Go Medic 2"

"I have a 23 yr old male with a history of heroin use that's unresponsive with CPR in progress. Vitals are ..."

Not too hard to figure out to those that know the area or after a little Google use that Bob & Mary Smith live at 1234 Main St and now we know that Robbie their son (presumably) has probably just had a heroin OD. This is especially easy if you live a few blocks away and turned on the scanner after hearing the siren. You probably already know that Bob & Mary live there and that they have a son in his mid 20s.

If you were Bob or Mary, would you like it to be public knowledge that your precious son Robbie had a serious drug problem?

 

[K8TEK]

I been an EMT for 20 years and on the job for 28 years never had to give a patients name over a radio
really no need to.

Tony M.
Harrison, NJ

Not only that, it is illegal per HIPPA even if it is encrypted.

 

[Septa3371CSX1]

Many times, a lot of that info is given via cell phone / Nextel. While some areas still use radio to contact hospitals, it tends to be secondary use with HIPPA regulations.

 

[N_Jay]

Not only that, it is illegal per HIPPA even if it is encrypted.

Not quite.

 

[SCPD]

Not quite.

Care to elaborate... rather than respond from the Great Land of Ambiguity?!?

"I have a 23 yr old male with a history of heroin use that's unresponsive with CPR in progress. Vitals are "... [snip]... had a serious drug problem?

I monitor that particular type of talkgroup on my local system, and I have never heard anything like that. More along the lines of "enroute code 2 to your facility, on board a 23 year old male, A&Ox4, concious, chief complaint is shortness of breath, BP 87 over 54, and we'll see you in about 4, how do you copy..."

Never have I heard medical history over the air.

 

[N_Jay]

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