Will Military baseses or depots go to secure all???

[rescue161]

Sure there's AES, but DES/DES-XL is still being used.

All three can be used in digital format with no degredation of signal quality/range.

And it really doesn't matter which form of encryption is used, a scanner will still not be able to pick these up.

 

[INDY72]

Precisely.. In fact encrypted comms on digital sound a LOT better than on analog. As I posted in another thread- there used to be a sample on the RCMP system using an Motorola XTS3000 of analog, then DES-OFB on analog, then digital, then DES-OFB on digital..

And the quote used to demonstrate was: "You get what you pay for"

 

[800crazy1]

it figures , i get 2 scanners and finally can listen to MILAIR , and now i might not be able to listen a year or so from now or down the road ! i live outside of westover AFRB and they recently went digital , non encrypted , im sure encryption capability , but for now operating in the clear. damn i really hope it doesnt come to that, they should have some sympothy on us scanner people , who recently spent a lot of money on all the latest digital scanning equipment lol....like they care !

 

[INDY72]

Well the new radio system that would have killed your monitoring mil coms was put on hold.. Specs not up to par with DOD standards... So count your blessings... Give it time and they will fix it.. then its lights out for mil coms till scanner tech catches up.

 

[800crazy1]

listening while i can , and counting my blessings...thanks

 

[poltergeisty]

One bureaucracy conflicting with another while the manufactures listen and stare with evil greedy eyes like a thief in the night, you see the world by candle light. Say good bye Oh oh oh say good bye.

My personal little remix of the song Seconds, by U2, Album War. :lol:

Don't think it make a good song though but just happened to associate with the issue, some how. :wink:

The FCC is the puppet master, the puppet master who pull the strings.

 

[grem467]

AFIAK the FCC doesnt issue licenses for the federal govt.

 

[poltergeisty]

I know, but these are words in the song that I used. And I belive they have regulatory over them. The -FCC- is the puppet master for defiantly everyone else though.

 

[N_Jay]

I know, but these are words in the song that I used. And I belive they have regulatory over them. The -FCC- is the puppet master for defiantly everyone else though.

Some would say the FCC is just the puppet!

 

[poltergeisty]

I know, but these are words in the song that I used. And I belive they have regulatory over them. The -FCC- is the puppet master for defiantly everyone else though.

Some would say the FCC is just the puppet!

True.

 

[kikito]

Re: re:

I think it's crazy every base going encrypt because of possible terrorist and what not. If they're going to do something, they're going to do it regardless of the traffic of the radio.

I couldn't agree more; they want to spend several hundred $$$ more per radio (it adds up for hundreds, if not thousands of radios) just to get encryption to use here at "home" while the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan that are battling the "enemy" are relying on $30 FRS radios to communicate. And many of those FRS radios were donated from civilians over here....

 

[rescue161]

Those FRS radios that you see our guys using overseas are not your common FRS radios. They use the 380 MHz band. Yes, they suck, but that's not the only radios they use.

What I was saying in an earlier post is that the military radios (that I have put my hands on) have always had encryption, it just never was used (range/audio problems). Digital changed all of that.

It's not like they are paying any 'extra' for the modules, it's a standard price through FED LOG.

Plus the FED LOG price for these radios is a hell of a lot cheaper than list or what Motorola will quote a civilian agency.

 

[N_Jay]

Those FRS radios that you see our guys using overseas are not your common FRS radios. They use the 380 MHz band. Yes, they suck, but that's not the only radios they use.

What I was saying in an earlier post is that the military radios (that I have put my hands on) have always had encryption, it just never was used (range/audio problems). Digital changed all of that.

It's not like they are paying any 'extra' for the modules, it's a standard price through FED LOG.

Plus the FED LOG price for these radios is a hell of a lot cheaper than list or what Motorola will quote a civilian agency.

Thank you!! :wink:

But don't worry, the application of knowlege and logic to this thread will not change the discussion. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

 

[rescue161]

LOL!

 

[kikito]

Those FRS radios that you see our guys using overseas are not your common FRS radios. They use the 380 MHz band. Yes, they suck, but that's not the only radios they use.

YES THEY ARE regular FRS radios most of the time, is nothing new and no secret. Here's one of a thousand links you get when you do a search on the web about it. The new radios on the 380 band came about because of this illegal FRS use. So now they might not be as many in use but they still do.

http://www.fcw.com/fcw/articles/2004/1220/web-iraq-12-23-04.asp

The article, which is from past December, even talks about the current "radio shortages".

It's not like they are paying any 'extra' for the modules, it's a standard price through FED LOG.

What I was saying in an earlier post and I still stand by my "logic", even if it was about $100 extra on the total price for a crypto enabled radio, after just 2,000 radios that's an extra $200K. And for what, so that nearby citizens (in the U.S.) can't hear them talk about where they're going to lunch today, etc.

In other words, here at home, for day to day use, the bases and troops should get good solid plain working radios without much bells and whistles (like encryption) and leave the "fancy" radios for special ops or places like Iraq. Or you're saying that next time they put an order through FED LOG for 10,000 radios, is going to cost the same to buy plain HT1000 as it cost to buy loaded XTS5000?

The original thread starter, poltergeisty, was wondering if bases, depots, etc were eventually all going to be encrypted. I would say if they keep buying top of the line radios for even the janitors, then most likely one day it'll be too easy to "throw the switch" and go completely secure, so unfortunately, it might be possible. Of course, that would be at the expense of an already depleted budget and resources in MY opinion....



Don't worry N_Jay, I won't take it any farther from the topic to bother YOUR kind of thinking and logic. :twisted:

 

[rescue161]

Read all the links you want, but our unit is forbid to use anything other than authorized comm gear. That is limited to 380 MHz FRS (for small unit comms), green gear (I won't go into that), MBITRs and comercial gear as in Motorola.

I never said that HT1000's can't be bought in place of an XTS5000. What I said was that all of the military gear that is capable of encryption that I've had my hands on over the past 13 years has had the modules installed - EVERY ONE OF THEM. If the goverment has already bought them, then why not use them?

Sure they can buy an HT1000, they just won't have a radio capable of encryption, BUT if a unit purchases a secure capable radio through FED LOG, you can bet your ass that it will have a module in it STANDARD, i.e. no discount for leaving the module out...

So, unless you're buying non-secure radios (like the HT1000), then there is no price difference.

HT1000 won't do digital anyway, so the point is moot.

Also, most of the radios I was involved with were on TRS, so that also would leave out the HT1000.

Not too many trunking capable radios that are NOT capable of encryption out there. When you calculate in which ones are authorized for use in the military, it kind of narrows it down.

 

[N_Jay]

What I was saying in an earlier post and I still stand by my "logic", even if it was about $100 extra on the total price for a crypto enabled radio, after just 2,000 radios that's an extra $200K. And for what, so that nearby citizens (in the U.S.) can't hear them talk about where they're going to lunch today, etc.

In other words, here at home, for day to day use, the bases and troops should get good solid plain working radios without much bells and whistles (like encryption) and leave the "fancy" radios for special ops or places like Iraq. . . .
. . . .
Don't worry N_Jay, I won't take it any farther from the topic to bother YOUR kind of thinking and logic. :twisted:

And if the unit gets deployed, or has need for encryption?
Oh, then just leave all those radios behind and get new ones for the mission?
That your plan? :roll:

Its not a matter of my "kind of thinking and logic. :evil:

What I was implying is that rescue161's KNOWLEGE (EXPERIANCE) matches what I have seen. :wink:

You may have some "ideas" about what is done, and maybe some "ideas" about what should be done. but none of that changes what is REALY done and WHY! :?

 

[rescue161]

AMEN!

I don't agree with the encryption band-wagon that everyone is jumping on, but arguing on here isn't going to stop it from happening. I'm just pointing out that it is easier than ever for any government entity to go "secure". They've always been able to do so, as the equipment was always there. It's just easier to do so now.

I don't even know why we're arguing. If they're going to go secure, nothing you or anyone else says is going to stop them.

 

[kikito]

Read all the links you want, but our unit is forbid to use anything other than authorized comm gear.

I wasn't talking about YOUR particular unit. It's not just the links I hear stuff like that. I live in a small town between two military bases, facts and rumors get around....

I never said that HT1000's can't be bought in place of an XTS5000.

No, I said that, me. It was more of an actual question/comment since I'm not familiar with your ordering system.

What I said was that all of the military gear that is capable of encryption that I've had my hands on over the past 13 years has had the modules installed - EVERY ONE OF THEM. If the goverment has already bought them, then why not use them?

And that's exactly my point, they're STILL buying stuff like that. Not everything and everyone needs a top of the line encrypted radio. My own agency has had their budget reduced for 5 years consecutively, I can't help to think of cutting down on expenses not needed like all the bells and whistles on day to day equipment used.

I brought up the HT1000 because is a good all around radio for the many uses and people that really don't need digital, trunking and encryption. Your unit might needed or use it and that's fine. But there's quite a lot of day to day functions on bases, especially contractors like Public Works in my area, that really don't need a loaded XTS5000. If the contracts or ordering services for buying equipment don't give you much choice of the options you want, then maybe it's time for a change.


I know, the latter is like trying to move mountains and waiting for Social Security.... :wink:

 

[kikito]

And if the unit gets deployed, or has need for encryption?
Oh, then just leave all those radios behind and get new ones for the mission?
That your plan?

Again, like I said earlier, I'm mostly referring to day to day activities and operations like Public Works, Janitors,etc.

You may have some "ideas" about what is done, and maybe some "ideas" about what should be done. but none of that changes what is REALY done and WHY! :?

Yes, that's the unfortunate truth

But I can always hope that "ideas" eventually find their way to people that can make changes....