Will Military baseses or depots go to secure all???

[kikito]

I don't agree with the encryption band-wagon that everyone is jumping on, but arguing on here isn't going to stop it from happening. I'm just pointing out that it is easier than ever for any government entity to go "secure". They've always been able to do so, as the equipment was always there. It's just easier to do so now.

Yes, I agree with that. Just like all this "security" didn't prevent stuff like 9/11 from happening nor will it in the future.

I don't even know why we're arguing. If they're going to go secure, nothing you or anyone else says is going to stop them.

I didn't take it nor I was trying to argue, It's actually good to talk about stuff like this as long as we don't end up insulting each other.

Like I said earlier also, some "ideas" discussed or "argued" here might eventually make it to somebody that can do something about it.

If anything, at least we're exercising the rights that our military (encrypted or not) is protecting.

 

[poltergeisty]

Hmmm. looks like the encryption will be used for all the military bases full time. What a dirty rotten shame. We need more technology to aid in a war rather then this horse crap.

All while Rumy wants to turn the military into small fast little gangs. :x

In the words of John Stosel. " Give ma a break!!!"

 

[rescue161]

I didn't take it nor I was trying to argue, It's actually good to talk about stuff like this as long as we don't end up insulting each other.

Like I said earlier also, some "ideas" discussed or "argued" here might eventually make it to somebody that can do something about it.

If anything, at least we're exercising the rights that our military (encrypted or not) is protecting.

Good deal! I didn't want it to turn into an insult war. I'm glad we see each others views.

 

[poltergeisty]

Group hug every body group hug. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[kikito]

Group hug every body group hug. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I wouldn't go that far! :wink:

 

[kikito]

Hmmmm.... Interesting....

The March 2005 cover story on Popular Communications called: "Radios from Home Fill the Void", talks about (among other things), a fathers' mission in getting CB radios from the USA to send out to some troops in Iraq that don't have any kind of communications to support their mission....

Imagine that.... :wink: :roll:

So let me update my original post on this thread:

I couldn't agree more; they want to spend several hundred $$$ more per radio (it adds up for hundreds, if not thousands of radios) just to get encryption to use here at "home" while the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan that are battling the "enemy" are relying on $30 FRS radios and CB radios to communicate. And many of those FRS radios and CB radios were donated from civilians over here....

I'm not trying to re-start the argument but keep this in mind: Just because they're not supposed to, doesn't mean it doesn't happen...., especially in the kind of situation they're in. Remember, they're not supposed to torture prisoners of war either....


And my bottom line is still the same:

The USA needs to stop buying so much top-of-the-line encrypted crap for using at Home and start sending the Troops out there MUCH NEEDED equipment.

 

[N_Jay]

Hmmmm.... Interesting....

And my bottom line is still the same:

The USA needs to stop buying so much top-of-the-line encrypted crap for using at Home and start sending the Troops out there MUCH NEEDED equipment.

The problem with this thread, and why it starts so many arguments is because people here are mixing two very different issues. :roll:

The money spent on equipment here has very little (read; NOTHING) to do with the availability or capability of the equipment used over there.

The reason the radios provided to the troops are limited in their ability to communicate is BECAUSE some "brilliant person" decided that it was the right radio for the job.
It has nothing to do with lack of funding.

The radios implemented here are the same. Some "brilliant person" decided that those radios are apropriate for their mission.

Yes, you could take a (overly) simplistic view and say money is money, and radios are radios, but that is not the way the government works.

If you want to change the world, then go into the millitary, specialize in communications, work your way up the ranks, and then YOU can be the brilliant person who fixes it all! :wink:

 

[northzone]

The word I got was that as the Military moves their base support radio systems to the 380-399 mhz range everything will be encrypted all the time. This is base support (police, fire, public works, etc.) not tactical. Almost all tacitical radios already support secure, they just don't use it much in conus.

The switch to 380 band with full time encryption for all is well under way for 120 bases in the national capital region.

 

[kikito]

The reason the radios provided to the troops are limited in their ability to communicate is BECAUSE some "brilliant person" decided that it was the right radio for the job.It has nothing to do with lack of funding.

It does have to do partially with funding, that was one of the excuses given in the past for this issue of lack of radios.

Yes, you could take a (overly) simplistic view and say money is money, and radios are radios, but that is not the way the government works.

Is better to be simplistic than unnecessarily complicate matters as usual, especially by adding politics. Maybe that's the government's problem. And yes, I DO know how the (federal) government works, for 12 years now I've seen it and lived it first hand.... Every year the government gives out monetary awards to people for a lot more simplistic and stupid ideas on how to save the government money which ends up costing more in the long run.

If you want to change the world, then go into the millitary, specialize in communications, work your way up the ranks, and then YOU can be the brilliant person who fixes it all! :wink:

That's an interesting analogy I have to remember for when I hear people *****ing about the President. If they don't like it, then they should work their way up to the Presidency and have it their way! :roll: It's going to be interesting seeing half the country running for President! :wink:

I'm a productive member of this society, I pay taxes, I vote and I abide by the laws and regulations of this country. I should have at least an opportunity to suggest and express my opinion and ideas on how to solve a problem that affects everyone. Even if it's (over) simplistic.... :wink: And doing so it's a lot better than just saying: "That's just the way things are" or "That's not the way the government works". Yeah, that mentality is going to solve a lot more problems.... :roll:

 

[N_Jay]

The reason the radios provided to the troops are limited in their ability to communicate is BECAUSE some "brilliant person" decided that it was the right radio for the job.It has nothing to do with lack of funding.

It does have to do partially with funding, that was one of the excuses given in the past for this issue of lack of radios.

Most of the articals I have read have talked about the fact that the soldiers did not like the short range of the radios they were given.

This is why they wanted FRS/GMRS radios from home.

The short range was intentional. (Part of the specifications decided to be "correct" by the "brilliant person"!)

If you want to change the world, then go into the millitary, specialize in communications, work your way up the ranks, and then YOU can be the brilliant person who fixes it all! :wink:

That's an interesting analogy I have to remember for when I hear people *****ing about the President. If they don't like it, then they should work their way up to the Presidency and have it their way! :roll: It's going to be interesting seeing half the country running for President! :wink:

You don't have to be President, just work your way up to be an advisor! :wink: :wink:

 

[CapnJon]

I was wondering, well there be a possibility of our listening enjoyment being hampered by possible secure coms. at bases and depots or coast guard facilitys some time in the future due to the popular and wide spread of comy. secure communication on the public systems now days and for so called "anti terrorist listing" ? :shock:

USCG is already secure...we ran the tapes thru the encryptor every Thursday at noon for the RTTY and the new Mojorola radios...we could go secure at anytime, and also had the dinosaur "Parkhill" secure radios too...Red phones we called the Bat Phone! Ha!

 

[poltergeisty]

I knew the -RTTY- is encrypted but isn't fare to say that most coms. are not?

 

[hughwsharp]

And if the unit gets deployed, or has need for encryption?
Oh, then just leave all those radios behind and get new ones for the mission?
That your plan? :roll:

Yes.

 

[hughwsharp]

Hmmm. looks like the encryption will be used for all the military bases full time. What a dirty rotten shame. We need more technology to aid in a war rather then this horse crap.

Why would that be a shame? I just got a phone call the other day from some guy who wanted the hex codes for my installation. Something that blatant worries me. I think that there's something to be said for encrypting in this fashion. I know that the RF Spectrum is everyone's resource (and US taxpayers pay for the allocation of it) but incidents like that just spur this whole thing on, even if they guy really meant no harm.

 

[GlacierClipper]

Encryption is vital for military operations. Being a former RTO "Radio Telephone Operator" in the Army. Encryption is a must at many military
facilities both here in the USA and oveseas. Without encryption the enemy
will know your complete operations and take you down! When a unit is deployed there is no reason for the security to take a few steps down. During the deployment bases should try to have stricter security, because of the lack of military personnel on the facility.

 

[DaveNF2G]

Really? Then why is use of encryption by the U.S. military so rare?

Every radio transmission tells a potential foe something. A dead carrier tells the frequency. A modulated carrier tells the type of modulation in use. Voice traffic tells the language of the users, and carries additional information to the listener who comprehends that language.

Encrypted traffic carries information about the encryption. The more (unnecessary) encrypted transmissions made, the more chances an enemy is given to decipher the pattern.

 

[rescue161]

It's no secret what range the frequencies are in on a Federal Military trunking system and they just can't change frequencies on the fly without a crap load of paperwork and time. This is why it's easier for the bases in the US to start moving towards encryption when the new 380 systems come on line. OTAR keeps changing the key whenever they want to, i.e. monthly, weekly, daily or hourly if they want.

Sure military comms in the US haven't been encrypted in the past, but that is just that - the past.

As for the deployed forces, the same applies as far as spectrum goes (not the same range as the TRSs above, but that the enemy knows what range you're in), but the SINCGARS frequency hop, so they'd have a hell of a time trying to hear what they said even if they had the encryption key. They also would have an extremely hard time jamming our signal.

As far as units using FRS radios, they are just idiots for doing that.

 

[N_Jay]

Really? Then why is use of encryption by the U.S. military so rare?

Every radio transmission tells a potential foe something. A dead carrier tells the frequency. A modulated carrier tells the type of modulation in use. Voice traffic tells the language of the users, and carries additional information to the listener who comprehends that language.

Encrypted traffic carries information about the encryption. The more (unnecessary) encrypted transmissions made, the more chances an enemy is given to decipher the pattern.

Good encryption will not be broken during its intended usefull life.

Using encryption ALL the time removes the detection of encryption from one of the pieces of valuable information!

 

[poltergeisty]

Why would that be a shame? I just got a phone call the other day from some guy who wanted the hex codes for my installation. Something that blatant worries me. I think that there's something to be said for encrypting in this fashion. I know that the RF Spectrum is everyone's resource (and US taxpayers pay for the allocation of it) but incidents like that just spur this whole thing on, even if they guy really meant no harm.

I did not intend on saying that encryption was a bad thing for the military, depots or the coast gurad. I think that encryption for most of the day to day communications that are currently not secure is a shame. Most of the communications that go on right now are not. Soooo....the need for this must not be that important here in the states otherwise, they defiantly would have gone encryption all the way a loooong time ago.

Don't worry soon enough it seems that secrecy will be full time. I know now there is work being done on a system called -JTRS- and this will put all of us hobbyist listeners to the dump! As soon as the -NSA- comes up with something for the -JTRS-. The -NSA- did not agree on the encryption process that was going to be used.

But, I have to say that bothering with encryption now under the circumstances for bases is kinda unnecessary when there is a real problem right now, that is armoring all the vehicles in Iraq. To say the least. This is the primary focus, the needs for overseas.

Ya, rumy says you go to war with what you have, mean while crap loads of money are spent for -JTRS- (tisk, tisk)

SUMMARIZATION:

Encryption during war and over seas, defiantly. For most bases day to day activities, a pity.

I belive this makes a damn good point. So don't question my opinion.

 

[poltergeisty]

Encrypted traffic carries information about the encryption. The more (unnecessary) encrypted transmissions made, the more chances an enemy is given to decipher the pattern.

This is the best damn reply I have heard. My same thoughts.

Remember people, there are people in brick buildings who can demodulate anything. Even Pro voice. Encryption is like a piece of a cupcake.

As the song goes. Time time time is on my side, yes it is. :lol: