WSP King County/District 2 VHF Simulcast

[k1sah]

Anyone familiar with this situation…
I know Division 2 is migrating to a phase 2 P25 system. I have a Uniden 536 that is absolutely deaf on phase 2 systems unless I’m VERY close to a tower or pointing a yagi at one. Mobile is just a non starter. I know why this particular radio can’t handle it. It’s made me hate digital simulcasts. I love the ability to use the app as a “remote head” though and it plays well with the analogue Snohomish County system. As limited and under-developed the app is I wish they’d offer that connectivity on the SDS200. I’m considering some good options to “remote head” it though, also I hear Scanner Master will have a hardware solution soon, I’m sure I’ll have to take a second mortgage on the house to pick it up… but it looks, at this early stage, to be a viable option. I can’t wait to see when it’s available and the cost.

I didn’t intend to tell you my whole story… but there it is.

Back to my original question. Since WSP Division 2 is/has migrated to phase 2 is the VHF simulcast gone? I haven’t tried to monitor it in a few months. But I’m sitting here in Bellevue/Factoria with an excellent and very capable XTS5000 programmed perfectly and there’s absolutely no traffic in either King North or South. I’m hearing Snohomish County Division 7 just fine from the same location.

My head has been scratched… a lot.

 

[nessnet]

I have - on occasion in the past, heard the same traffic on both the 700 and VHF systems up here at the north end of the lake.
It isn't consistent and I haven't been able to discern any pattern to it, but VHF (remember, it is also P25II) is still (sometimes) used in District 2.

 

[dachs494]

Anyone familiar with this situation…
I know Division 2 is migrating to a phase 2 P25 system. I have a Uniden 536 that is absolutely deaf on phase 2 systems unless I’m VERY close to a tower or pointing a yagi at one. Mobile is just a non starter. I know why this particular radio can’t handle it. It’s made me hate digital simulcasts. I love the ability to use the app as a “remote head” though and it plays well with the analogue Snohomish County system. As limited and under-developed the app is I wish they’d offer that connectivity on the SDS200. I’m considering some good options to “remote head” it though, also I hear Scanner Master will have a hardware solution soon, I’m sure I’ll have to take a second mortgage on the house to pick it up… but it looks, at this early stage, to be a viable option. I can’t wait to see when it’s available and the cost.

I didn’t intend to tell you my whole story… but there it is.

Back to my original question. Since WSP Division 2 is/has migrated to phase 2 is the VHF simulcast gone? I haven’t tried to monitor it in a few months. But I’m sitting here in Bellevue/Factoria with an excellent and very capable XTS5000 programmed perfectly and there’s absolutely no traffic in either King North or South. I’m hearing Snohomish County Division 7 just fine from the same location.

My head has been scratched… a lot.

I hear D2 traffic broadcasted 24/7 on 155.580 (Seattle North) and 154.680 (Seattle South). Mostly the same story on 700MHz - Seattle North is broadcasted 24/7 on the King Lake site, but if you also want to have Seattle South 24/7 it's best to listen to the King Simulcast site. I think they stopped expanding the 700 system a while ago, so I wouldn't expect them to ditch VHF to make 700 their "main" communications system anytime soon. As you know, though, 700 is Phase 2 and you seem to have some problems with that.

Also, you could get away with listening to D2 on JIWN (Justice Integrated Wireless Network Trunking System, Various, Multi-State), although when exactly D2 traffic is carried is sort of random. Despite the Radio Reference page and numerous people stating JIWN mostly carries Phase 2 voice traffic, I have never heard any Phase 2 transmission on there. It's always been Phase 1.

I have - on occasion in the past, heard the same traffic on both the 700 and VHF systems up here at the north end of the lake.
It isn't consistent and I haven't been able to discern any pattern to it, but VHF (remember, it is also P25II) is still (sometimes) used in District 2.

I have never seen D2 operate in Phase 2 on VHF. That goes for both conventional and JIWN. But I guess I could be missing something. Where have you seen this?

 

[ad7th]

WSP still use the conventional channels but also the Trunk System. I use a G5 pager and APX 4000 VHF in my travels in the area as a truck driver. This is where I here them on. I have both running on the area I'm in so I get good coverage, some times I don't hear the truck system but VHF and vice versa when traveling.

District 2 Seattle Co. - Here them on the 700 Mhz System for Dispatch and Car to Car. VHF system Just the Dispatch and Feild Units.
District 1 Pierce/Thurston Co. - Pierce Co Uses the South Sound 911 System for Comms and Car to Car. VHF hear Dispatch and Feild Units.
Thurston Co. Uses the WSP 700MHz System for Dispatch and Car to Car. VHF system for Dispatch and Feild Units.
District 7 Snohomish/Skagit/Whatcom Co. - VHF is what I hear them on and the Car to Car.
District 5 Lewis/Cowlitz/ Clark Co. - Lewis and Cowlitz here them on VHF. Clark Co. here them on CRESA 911 System for Comms and Car to Car.
District 8 - Kitsap/Mason/Jefferson/Callam/Grays Harbor Co. VHF all

JIWN system I hear crickets, don't hear WSP anymore on the system like I use to.

 

[N7AZD]

here in Tacoma, I hear Seattle, Tacoma and Olympia on the 700 mhz Tacoma simulcast site for wsp

 

[nessnet]

I hear D2 traffic broadcasted 24/7 on 155.580 (Seattle North) and 154.680 (Seattle South). Mostly the same story on 700MHz - Seattle North is broadcasted 24/7 on the King Lake site, but if you also want to have Seattle South 24/7 it's best to listen to the King Simulcast site. I think they stopped expanding the 700 system a while ago, so I wouldn't expect them to ditch VHF to make 700 their "main" communications system anytime soon. As you know, though, 700 is Phase 2 and you seem to have some problems with that.

Also, you could get away with listening to D2 on JIWN (Justice Integrated Wireless Network Trunking System, Various, Multi-State), although when exactly D2 traffic is carried is sort of random. Despite the Radio Reference page and numerous people stating JIWN mostly carries Phase 2 voice traffic, I have never heard any Phase 2 transmission on there. It's always been Phase 1.

I have never seen D2 operate in Phase 2 on VHF. That goes for both conventional and JIWN. But I guess I could be missing something. Where have you seen this?

 

[dachs494]

View attachment 165750

What I'm seeing in this screenshot is the WSP Phase 2 trunked system on 700MHz and two conventional VHF P25 frequencies. Conventional P25 can operate only in Phase 1 mode, and Phase 2 is supported only on trunked systems.

 

[devicelab]

Conventional P25 can operate only in Phase 1 mode, and Phase 2 is supported only on trunked systems.

This is not a true statement.

 

[dachs494]

This is not a true statement.

If we're speaking in terms of what is documented as a P25 standard, it does hold truth. Maybe I could have worded it differently, but while P25 Phase II TDMA operation on a conventional frequency is entirely possible, and some have spent time getting it to function, it's a very uncommon practice and not standardized at all. Just pointing out that WSP is not going to do that and very few agencies across the country actually will.

 

[devicelab]

If we're speaking in terms of what is documented as a P25 standard, it does hold truth. Maybe I could have worded it differently, but while P25 Phase II TDMA operation on a conventional frequency is entirely possible, and some have spent time getting it to function, it's a very uncommon practice and not standardized at all. Just pointing out that WSP is not going to do that and very few agencies across the country actually will.

This has nothing to do with WSP. Motorola has been using/testing P25 Phase 2 conventional firmware for months. In certain areas, it's being used full-time.

 

[dachs494]

This has nothing to do with WSP. Motorola has been using/testing P25 Phase 2 conventional firmware for months. In certain areas, it's being used full-time.

That is news. I did not know that Motorola was finally diving into that. Well, it would be interesting to see how that will be adopted in the future and eventually accepted as a standard. Thanks for the information.

 

[icom1020]

JIWN system I hear crickets, don't hear WSP anymore on the system like I use to.
[/QUOTE]

Pretty much an E Washington thing as D3 multicasts on JWIN Selah and Rattlesnake (Sunnyside). Occasionally Kennewick and Walla Walla (Joe Butte)

I drove across I 90 this past week and most of those sites were silent. It's not a robust system for coverage.

 

[Littledude]

Hopefully I can give some helpful information on this.

I work with WSDOT as part of the incident response program and I am a daily user of the WSP radios in King County. In D2 King County there are 3 different systems we use that are all connected together in a patch or something. We have the JWIN system, the WSP 700 system, and the good ol' trusty conventional channels. The JWIN is not a very reliable system in King county.

For normal day to day operations in D2 most everyone uses the WSP 700 trunking system and it works pretty much everywhere in King County. Like any radio system there are areas where it does not work the best. The conventional channels are often used as you get out further east and into the mountain passes. Recently our radio techs had to remove the JWIN system completely from our new harris XL200 mobiles because it was causing issues.

I have heard rumors recently about WSP in King County also partnering with PSERN and using that system much like WSP does with the local radio system down in Pierce County.

Hope this helps in some way.