XTL5000 P25 Programming

[W0RS]

I have the XTL5000 and I am encountering a problem with the P25 (Astro) side. The radio is being utilized with amateur radio P25 repeaters. I am not able to bring up any of the digital repeaters. I have programmed the radio with the appropriate NAC access codes, talk group numbers, C4FM, repeater frequencies, etc. I have looked at the personalities to be sure my Astro settings are correct but nothing seems to work. I have programmed several GMRS repeaters and conventional UHF repeaters and they all work!

I have checked the power and SWR levels and all checked out fine. I just don’t know what else to check, so I hope someone who has done this type of programming can tell me what I might have missed?

 

[DeoVindice]

When is the last time it saw a service monitor?

 

[W0RS]

When is the last time it saw a service monitor?

Not sure, as I purchased from a dealer in Colorado (Sunny Communications). It’s got a 3 month warranty…..

 

[N4DES]

When was the last time you were able to confirm that a digital conversation took place on the repeaters, and do you have another radio to confirm that someone didn't turn off the P25 capabilities of the repeater?

 

[nokones]

Are your channel configuration setting correct?

In the 70 cm band the lower frequency of the off-set is the mobile transmit frequency and the higher frequency the mobile receive freq. and the off-set is 5 Megs, and with 2M band the mobile transmit is the lower freq with a 600 KHz off-set?

 

[N4KVE]

Are your channel configuration setting correct?

In the 70 cm band the lower frequency of the off-set is the mobile transmit frequency and the higher frequency the mobile receive freq. and the off-set is 5 Megs, and with 2M band the mobile transmit is the lower freq with a 600 KHz off-set?

That’s not correct. Most UHF ham radios are set to low in, high out. In some states it’s the opposite, but they’re the exception. As for VHF, below 147.000 it’s 600 down, & above 147 it’s 600 up. 147.0, 03, 06, & 09 could go either way.

 

[GTR8000]

That’s not correct. Most UHF ham radios are set to low in, high out. In some states it’s the opposite, but they’re the exception.

Maybe in your neck of the woods that's how things are, but up here in the northeast that's not correct at all. Out of 276 UHF ham repeaters listed in the RRDB for NY, 188 have the output on 440-444 while 129 have the output on 445-449. NJ is split 65/72. That's a pretty even split for two states, so it's certainly not "most" radios setup the way you describe.

 

[nokones]

Isn't that what I said not considering a few exceptions, the mobile transmit on the lower freq of the UHF freq pair and receives the higher freq?

As for the 2M freq pairs I'm just going by what they do here in Arizona. Maybe Arizona is one if those exceptions.

In any case, I am not wrong at least for here in Arizona. And why can't people follow a standard band plan and people make up stuff. Can't some people just do things right?

 

[N4KVE]

Maybe in your neck of the woods that's how things are, but up here in the northeast that's not correct at all. Out of 276 UHF ham repeaters listed in the RRDB for NY, 188 have the output on 440-444 while 129 have the output on 445-449. NJ is split 65/72. That's a pretty even split for two states, so it's certainly not "most" radios setup the way you describe.

Yup. In Florida I can’t find a low in, hi out repeater, but I knew there were exceptions somewhere in the country. But I looked for the total US comparison of low in, hi out, vs hi in, low out. Anybody know?

 

[nokones]

Any idea on what the ARRL band plan calls for. Just curious.

 

[DeoVindice]

Isn't that what I said not considering a few exceptions, the mobile transmit on the lower freq of the UHF freq pair and receives the higher freq?

As for the 2M freq pairs I'm just going by what they do here in Arizona. Maybe Arizona is one if those exceptions.

In any case, I am not wrong at least for here in Arizona. And why can't people follow a standard band plan and people make up stuff. Can't some people just do things right?

Yes, you're entirely wrong. Arizona has a significant number of 440 repeaters with the input on a higher frequency than the output. It's not quite 50/50, closer to 70/30. 2m is similar. If the band plan prevents unintentional interference, I'd consider that hard evidence that it's right. Everything doesn't need to be standardized.

In any case, that's not relevant to the original poster's issue beyond ensuring that he's programmed his radio correctly. N4DES has a good point as well.

 

[nokones]

Yes, you're entirely wrong. Arizona has a significant number of 440 repeaters with the input on a higher frequency than the output. It's not quite 50/50, closer to 70/30. 2m is similar. If the band plan prevents unintentional interference, I'd consider that hard evidence that it's right. Everything doesn't need to be standardized.

In any case, that's not relevant to the original poster's issue beyond ensuring that he's programmed his radio correctly. N4DES has a good point as well.

Well, you are incorrect on your wrong. The only thing you stated correctly, is "Arizona has a significant number of 70 cm repeaters" but not as you cited. Where did you get your information for the 70 cm repeaters in Arizona?

My information is dated as of August 2023, and I doubt that the tables would have been turned around since that update.

There are 403 70 cm repeaters listed in Arizona. 107 of them are configured with the mobile transmitting the high freq of the pair to the repeater and receiving the lower freq of the pair to the mobile, just as the Part 90 & 95 (GMRS) freq pairs are configured. The remainder of the 403 listed repeaters comes to 296 repeaters that the mobile transmit the lower freq of the pair to the repeater and receives the higher freq of the pair from the repeater which make it 73% on the lower freq going up to the repeater to the fact that only 27% of the higher freq is going up to the repeater.

Now, is very possible that you incorrectly interpreted a repeater frequency pair configuration as opposed to the mobile frequency pair configuration? Maybe glasses and reading the list carefully would be your best bet or maybe staying off the substances, its healthier .

I take it that you must be one of those typical amateurs that knows it all, and I don't mean amateur in the sense of being a HAM operator in the Amateur Radio Services.

Oh, by the way, documentation of the aforementioned information is available, and you can search for the information, view, and count the repeaters just as well as I did. Enjoy

 

[ramal121]

Jeez. Why can't you just say you'll probably find either configuration no matter where you go and leave it at that?

 

[KevinC]

OR....we could get back to helping the OP.

And 70/30 vs 73/27???? I'd say that was a pretty darn good guesstimate.

 

[W0RS]

Ok, what I have is 444.575 RX and 449.575 TX in Missouri. The only issue I see is that there is no place in the CPS for an offset that I can see, perhaps someone can tell me if there is a place for it?

I have talked with a local radio technician who works for the state maintaining Motorola infrastructure. He is also a ham that maintains the amateur radio repeaters located at many of the state tower locations. He brought up the P25 repeater yesterday with a handheld, so the repeater is up and running.

Perhaps the radio needs to be re-flashed, I don’t know! The other option is to return to the vendor I bought it from, so they can put it on a service monitor to see what the problem is. 🤔

 

[mmckenna]

Ok, what I have is 444.575 RX and 449.575 TX in Missouri. The only issue I see is that there is no place in the CPS for an offset that I can see, perhaps someone can tell me if there is a place for it?

Commercial radios don't do offsets like amateur radio.
You have to program in your TX and RX frequencies, just like you did. Some softwares will automatically do the TX frequency 5MHz higher, since that's what is used in the LMR industry on the UHF band. Since ham swings both ways, it probably doesn't. 700, 800MHz gear will automatically do the correct offset usually..

I have talked with a local radio technician who works for the state maintaining Motorola infrastructure. He is also a ham that maintains the amateur radio repeaters located at many of the state tower locations. He brought up the P25 repeater yesterday with a handheld, so the repeater is up and running.

That's a good sign for the repeater, not for your radio.

I'd check your TX output power, make sure it's good.
Check the radio against another known good analog UHF repeater, or simplex with another UHF radio, and see if it works. That'll tell you if your frequency is close enough.

Usually/often in situations like this, it's the programming. Spend some quality time just starting at it, click on the 'help' button for anything that isn't clear. Usually the help function in CPS is pretty good. Have another set of eyes look at your file, might be something easy. Check your NAC's to make sure the are set correctly. Set your RX NAC to $F7E, which is like carrier squelch in P25, just to confirm.

Perhaps the radio needs to be re-flashed, I don’t know! The other option is to return to the vendor I bought it from, so they can put it on a service monitor to see what the problem is. 🤔

The "reflash" term usually is used for firmware updating. Unlikely that is your issue. I've had good luck with usedradios.com in the past, but it's an option. They may check it, but having it realigned may come with a charge. I think them, or one of the others, used to charge extra to buy a used radio and then have them do a factory alignment on it.
I'd check your power output and test simplex to another radio before mailing anything back. It would suck to get it back and it still not work due to it being a programming issue.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Ok, what I have is 444.575 RX and 449.575 TX in Missouri.

So is that the Repeater Transmit and Repeater Receive? Or Mobile Transmit and Mobile Receive?

 

[kayn1n32008]

Isn't that what I said not considering a few exceptions, the mobile transmit on the lower freq of the UHF freq pair and receives the higher freq?

Unfortunately, hams won't actually follow a band plan. It's not uncommon to see it either way. There is no hard and fast rule for ham repeaters input/output being high/low.

Locally, where I live, UHF repeaters are more commonly Mobile receive is low, and mobile transmit is high, BUT there are mobile receive high, mobile transmit low repeaters.

 

[W0RS]

So is that the Repeater Transmit and Repeater Receive? Or Mobile Transmit and Mobile Receive?

449.575 is repeater input

 

[W0RS]

Commercial radios don't do offsets like amateur radio.
You have to program in your TX and RX frequencies, just like you did. Some softwares will automatically do the TX frequency 5MHz higher, since that's what is used in the LMR industry on the UHF band. Since ham swings both ways, it probably doesn't. 700, 800MHz gear will automatically do the correct offset usually..





That's a good sign for the repeater, not for your radio.

I'd check your TX output power, make sure it's good.
Check the radio against another known good analog UHF repeater, or simplex with another UHF radio, and see if it works. That'll tell you if your frequency is close enough.

Usually/often in situations like this, it's the programming. Spend some quality time just starting at it, click on the 'help' button for anything that isn't clear. Usually the help function in CPS is pretty good. Have another set of eyes look at your file, might be something easy. Check your NAC's to make sure the are set correctly. Set your RX NAC to $F7E, which is like carrier squelch in P25, just to confirm.

I am able to bring up UHF repeaters with no issue. I checked power levels and they are where they should be. How important is the $ in the NAC? I tried placing it in the CPS but it would not take it…..I will continue plugging along, and also have someone else look at my settings.

The "reflash" term usually is used for firmware updating. Unlikely that is your issue. I've had good luck with usedradios.com in the past, but it's an option. They may check it, but having it realigned may come with a charge. I think them, or one of the others, used to charge extra to buy a used radio and then have them do a factory alignment on it.
I'd check your power output and test simplex to another radio before mailing anything back. It would suck to get it back and it still not work due to it being a programming issue.