XTS/XTL Firmware updates

[middleofAKTB]

I've Been dong some research but still cannot find a strait answer. Right now the agency I work for is running older firmware on our XTS/XTL's. (XTS 17.01.01) All I'm looking for is the pros and cons for updating to the latest firmware for the radios. Right now the area I work in runs our primary zones in conventional analog but in the near future will be switching to digital (non Trunking). We do have trunk channels on our radios with 9600 baud on some of our primary zones and in our secondary zones. If I can get some help with this i would greatly appreciate it.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

Firmware updates for XTL and XTS series radios are NLA.

If you want a newer firmware than what you currently have, you have to upgrade to new radios.

 

[middleofAKTB]

Firmware updates for XTL and XTS series radios are NLA.

If you want a newer firmware than what you currently have, you have to upgrade to new radios.

I spoke with my sales rep and I can still purchase the firmware updates. I'm just looking for the pros and cons of getting the updates before purchasing.

 

[n3obl]

I do believe there was a bug in 17 that corrupted some radios.

 

[Giddyuptd]

I don't believe there is any cons.

Being dept radios and if you're not planning to upgrade anytime soon it would be good to throw latest firmware in there since they said they can.

I dont have the release notes but I dont recall any cons.

 

[middleofAKTB]

I do believe there was a bug in 17 that corrupted some radios.

That’s what I’m trying to figure out is what the firmware is going to fix.

 

[middleofAKTB]

I don't believe there is any cons.

Being dept radios and if you're not planning to upgrade anytime soon it would be good to throw latest firmware in there since they said they can.

I dont have the release notes but I dont recall any cons.

I didn’t think there was any cons except I’ve see/heard that there may be issues with jumping from old firmware to new the newest firmware. But I was trying to find the release nots but can’t find any.

 

[Giddyuptd]

If they were were below 7 or 12 that is correct.

You're suppose to step in at increments as the structure changed.

Maybe someone can shed more light but I think being 17 there wasn't much of a structure change in the versions 17 to 20.

I do know 17 did infect have issues specially with the mobiles throwing fails at power up.

 

[middleofAKTB]

If they were were below 7 or 12 that is correct.

You're suppose to step in at increments as the structure changed.

Maybe someone can shed more light but I think being 17 there wasn't much of a structure change in the versions 17 to 20.

I do know 17 did infect have issues specially with the mobiles throwing fails at power up.

That’s good to know because we’re starting to get some of those fails the last year or so. But once you turn it off and turn back on it will go away.

 

[Giddyuptd]

That’s good to know because we’re starting to get some of those fails the last year or so. But once you turn it off and turn back on it will go away.

Definitely sounds like the r17.01ish firmware bug. I noticed this more with xtl1500s, pm1500s.

I know around 15 to 17 there was fail 01/82 head sync issues in the bricks to heads on the xtl2500, 5000s.

Many had to send them off to Motorola during Warranty on those some were able to recover syncing a new head and updating the firmware on those ones.

Since it sounds like you won't get newer apx anytime soon I'd have that dealer flash them with the latest firmware being agency radios.

If it was personal use I'd say there isn't much to need to bump their firmware.

As you know firmware contains improvement and bug fixes (thought mother M I'll add has been known to create new issues is the tech joke), there was feature fixes in the final version for trunking if I recall. It also updates the ucm, host and other areas if done legitimate. Worth it in a fleet of public safety.

I've seen conventional subs still at r12 out there.

When upgrades do come with a new platform it is handy to get the firmware and observe the notes with line you have.

I've seen some places still using type 2 mts radios such as Santa fe nm while some have xts portables and apx. Being type 2 analog they have maintained the older equipment and had those back then bumped to latest.

The xts xtl will do p25 and if you're not using or needing tdma phase 2 etc it'll buy time to have those later do p25 conv or phase 1 (if equipped in flash code). The user may cry they want a new radio but oh well. If it works, is tuned why replace it. Keep it going until it fully flops then issue out a replacement model.

 

[MTS2000des]

I spoke with my sales rep and I can still purchase the firmware updates. I'm just looking for the pros and cons of getting the updates before purchasing.

Your sales rep must have special powers. The XTL5000 was EOL'ed from support back in December 2018. XTL2500s ended in December 2019.
The date to order flashport upgrades ended in 2016/2017. The refresh dongles may still be available as a service part, but getting the firmware files on your MOL account may be a production.

Back in 2017, an agency tried to order a Flashport upgrade to add ISSI roaming to their XTS5000s and Motorola said "SORRY". They want you to buy APXs as the XTS/XTL is just shy of two decades old at this juncture.

The bottom line is these are discontinued products and Ma M wants them gone. As far as incremental upgrades, it's a crap shoot. I've uplifted some R5 XTLs via iButton to current release R20.50.10 without issue using OEM serial (not USB) J2 cables without a problem. Again, these radios are considered legacy products, so if one bricks during the process, even using legitimate cables and software (not ebay aftermarket garbage), MSI will tell you that you are on your own, and the depot will send them back non-repairable as they are no longer supported.

 

[Giddyuptd]

Out of curiosity how is the dealer going to upgrade the firmware?

I know there is a few out there with flashes left who stocked up but they are far and few between now.

I also know of the other method that goes on and the Russian whacks button deal some are privy to. Just curious.

Any how the apx4000 seems to be what most are going to that had xts2500s. A few went with the single knob 1000 or 2000 variants.

 

[middleofAKTB]

Definitely sounds like the r17.01ish firmware bug. I noticed this more with xtl1500s, pm1500s.

I know around 15 to 17 there was fail 01/82 head sync issues in the bricks to heads on the xtl2500, 5000s.

Many had to send them off to Motorola during Warranty on those some were able to recover syncing a new head and updating the firmware on those ones.

Since it sounds like you won't get newer apx anytime soon I'd have that dealer flash them with the latest firmware being agency radios.

If it was personal use I'd say there isn't much to need to bump their firmware.

As you know firmware contains improvement and bug fixes (thought mother M I'll add has been known to create new issues is the tech joke), there was feature fixes in the final version for trunking if I recall. It also updates the ucm, host and other areas if done legitimate. Worth it in a fleet of public safety.

I've seen conventional subs still at r12 out there.

When upgrades do come with a new platform it is handy to get the firmware and observe the notes with line you have.

I've seen some places still using type 2 mts radios such as Santa fe nm while some have xts portables and apx. Being type 2 analog they have maintained the older equipment and had those back then bumped to latest.

The xts xtl will do p25 and if you're not using or needing tdma phase 2 etc it'll buy time to have those later do p25 conv or phase 1 (if equipped in flash code). The user may cry they want a new radio but oh well. If it works, is tuned why replace it. Keep it going until it fully flops then issue out a replacement model.

Awesome, that’s what I needed to see. Thank you!

 

[middleofAKTB]

Your sales rep must have special powers. The XTL5000 was EOL'ed from support back in December 2018. XTL2500s ended in December 2019.
The date to order flashport upgrades ended in 2016/2017. The refresh dongles may still be available as a service part, but getting the firmware files on your MOL account may be a production.

Back in 2017, an agency tried to order a Flashport upgrade to add ISSI roaming to their XTS5000s and Motorola said "SORRY". They want you to buy APXs as the XTS/XTL is just shy of two decades old at this juncture.

The bottom line is these are discontinued products and Ma M wants them gone. As far as incremental upgrades, it's a crap shoot. I've uplifted some R5 XTLs via iButton to current release R20.50.10 without issue using OEM serial (not USB) J2 cables without a problem. Again, these radios are considered legacy products, so if one bricks during the process, even using legitimate cables and software (not ebay aftermarket garbage), MSI will tell you that you are on your own, and the depot will send them back non-repairable as they are no longer supported.

I was able to get price quotes from them so that dealer may have a stash of upgrades. And I agree with the statement of non eBay Aftermarket, we only use Motorola products for our mobiles and radios. But once I get all the upgrades I’ll be going to our area guru to insure that it’s done correctly then re-tune the radios. Thank you for the help.

 

[middleofAKTB]

Out of curiosity how is the dealer going to upgrade the firmware?

I know there is a few out there with flashes left who stocked up but they are far and few between now.

I also know of the other method that goes on and the Russian whacks button deal some are privy to. Just curious.

Any how the apx4000 seems to be what most are going to that had xts2500s. A few went with the single knob 1000 or 2000 variants.

Like I said in the other comment, I was able to get a price for flash upgrades for the XTS/XTL also because we have a hand full of XTLs that are not capable of going to W heads to O5 heads and was able to get conversions kits for them. Which is what started this whole adventure. But I’m not going to the Russian whacks, not going to chance the agency’s radios with that.

We have a hand full of APX4000/6000 and love them but at 4K (for the APX4000) a pop it’s a slow transition to phase out the XTS’s (which won’t be anytime in the near future). Probably will take us about 5 years to phase them out. But with the XTS’s still working just fine in Phase 1 P25 it makes sense to me to keep them updated. I’m just doing my research to justify to the powers above me that we need to do this to maximize our inventory and our small comms budget. Which I really appreciate everyone’s input and it’s going to help me out.

 

[middleofAKTB]

Definitely sounds like the r17.01ish firmware bug. I noticed this more with xtl1500s, pm1500s.

I know around 15 to 17 there was fail 01/82 head sync issues in the bricks to heads on the xtl2500, 5000s.

Many had to send them off to Motorola during Warranty on those some were able to recover syncing a new head and updating the firmware on those ones.

Since it sounds like you won't get newer apx anytime soon I'd have that dealer flash them with the latest firmware being agency radios.

If it was personal use I'd say there isn't much to need to bump their firmware.

As you know firmware contains improvement and bug fixes (thought mother M I'll add has been known to create new issues is the tech joke), there was feature fixes in the final version for trunking if I recall. It also updates the ucm, host and other areas if done legitimate. Worth it in a fleet of public safety.

I've seen conventional subs still at r12 out there.

When upgrades do come with a new platform it is handy to get the firmware and observe the notes with line you have.

I've seen some places still using type 2 mts radios such as Santa fe nm while some have xts portables and apx. Being type 2 analog they have maintained the older equipment and had those back then bumped to latest.

The xts xtl will do p25 and if you're not using or needing tdma phase 2 etc it'll buy time to have those later do p25 conv or phase 1 (if equipped in flash code). The user may cry they want a new radio but oh well. If it works, is tuned why replace it. Keep it going until it fully flops then issue out a replacement model.

Also what is part of the phase 1 P25? Is it the narrowbanding with the other options of going full digital and 9600 baud trunking? I know that Phase 2 can only be gone with the APX line. But also what’s the main difference between them? Done some research but the lack of understanding the terminology can sometimes hinder what’s really being said.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

Also what is part of the phase 1 P25? Is it the narrowbanding with the other options of going full digital and 9600 baud trunking? I know that Phase 2 can only be gone with the APX line. But also what’s the main difference between them? Done some research but the lack of understanding the terminology can sometimes hinder what’s really being said.

Phase 1 is FDMA. Phase 2 is TDMA and only works with trunking. A Phase 2 system can be backwards compatible with Phase 1 but not all systems are set up this way.

 

[middleofAKTB]

Phase 1 is FDMA. Phase 2 is TDMA and only works with trunking. A Phase 2 system can be backwards compatible with Phase 1 but not all systems are set up this way.

ok so the P25 is only in trunking then?

 

[GTR8000]

ok so the P25 is only in trunking then?

No. P25 refers to "APCO Project 25", and is the overall name for a set of standards defining a particular type of digital communications methods.

P25 can be conventional (non-trunked) or trunked. Conventional P25 is always FDMA, often referred to as Phase I. Trunked P25 can be either FDMA Phase I or TDMA Phase II.

Project 25 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[middleofAKTB]

No. P25 refers to "APCO Project 25", and is the overall name for a set of standards defining a particular type of digital communications methods.

P25 can be conventional (non-trunked) or trunked. Conventional P25 is always FDMA, often referred to as Phase I. Trunked P25 can be either FDMA Phase I or TDMA Phase II.

Project 25 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ok makes sense now. But the TDMA Phase II only works with the APX line?