XTS/XTL Firmware updates

[Giddyuptd]

Door stop. Book shelf book prop. Too many fail 01/80 01/90 or the other odd ball eprom loop boot error it had. I forget what it was most time the head would show it and youd just shut the vehicle off and it would boot back up knock on wood but eventually it required a trip to the depot once the luck ran out if it hadn't been upgraded.

 

[middleofAKTB]

Door stop. Book shelf book prop. Too many fail 01/80 01/90 or the other odd ball eprom loop boot error it had. I forget what it was most time the head would show it and youd just shut the vehicle off and it would boot back up knock on wood but eventually it required a trip to the depot once the luck ran out if it hadn't been upgraded.

So you’re talking on the XTL line not the xts?

 

[middleofAKTB]

Door stop. Book shelf book prop. Too many fail 01/80 01/90 or the other odd ball eprom loop boot error it had. I forget what it was most time the head would show it and youd just shut the vehicle off and it would boot back up knock on wood but eventually it required a trip to the depot once the luck ran out if it hadn't been upgraded.

Also do by chance know what model numbers they were?

 

[n3obl]

That version 17 firmware affected all model radios. It had a bug in it that cause the radios to lock up and throw error codes.

 

[middleofAKTB]

That version 17 firmware affected all model radios. It had a bug in it that cause the radios to lock up and throw error codes.

Ok thank you clearing that up. Been talking to my sales rep and now Motorola is starting to retract that they can provide the firmware updates for us. When a few weeks ago they quoted us prices for them. Just been very frustrating knowing this needs to be done.

 

[MTS2000des]

Ok thank you clearing that up. Been talking to my sales rep and now Motorola is starting to retract that they can provide the firmware updates for us. When a few weeks ago they quoted us prices for them. Just been very frustrating knowing this needs to be done.

Imagine that. Because MSI wants you to buy APX or APX NEXT and not keep your 15 year old radios current. Think about it, they'd much rather sell your agency $6000-9000 portables and "value added services" especially the NEXT line's required Radio Central add-ons versus a few hundred bucks o'refresh dongles for an officially off support and nixed product line.

 

[middleofAKTB]

Imagine that. Because MSI wants you to buy APX or APX NEXT and not keep your 15 year old radios current. Think about it, they'd much rather sell your agency $6000-9000 portables and "value added services" especially the NEXT line's required Radio Central add-ons versus a few hundred bucks o'refresh dongles for an officially off support and nixed product line.

I understand where they’re coming from because they want to make money and not deal with older equipment. But it also seems like they’re not trying to take care of the customers needs. Sorry but if a customer needs something to be maintained because their budget cannot support a major change over to the APX line (like allot of departments can’t) or if a department can do increments of purchase then Ma M should be able to provide to the needs of the customer. I know I’m not the only one who feels that way and it’s frustrating for allot of agencies.

 

[MTS2000des]

I understand where they’re coming from because they want to make money and not deal with older equipment. But it also seems like they’re not trying to take care of the customers needs. Sorry but if a customer needs something to be maintained because their budget cannot support a major change over to the APX line (like allot of departments can’t) or if a department can do increments of purchase then Ma M should be able to provide to the needs of the customer. I know I’m not the only one who feels that way and it’s frustrating for allot of agencies.

Motorola is in business to stay in business. They're doing exactly what Apple does. Oh, you have a 5 year old iPad/iPhone? Sorry, no new iOS updates for you. No more battery changes for you. But we'll give you a few bucks off a new iPhone/iPad/Macbook.

You have other options besides piecing together decades old radios. Other vendors like Harris, EFJ/Kenwood, Relm and Tait (now owned by Harris) all sell affordable P25 subscribers. If the system you're utilizing has approved those subscribers, you should investigate all options available to your agency. Most of those vendors will be more than willing to supply demo units if requested.

 

[middleofAKTB]

Motorola is in business to stay in business. They're doing exactly what Apple does. Oh, you have a 5 year old iPad/iPhone? Sorry, no new iOS updates for you. No more battery changes for you. But we'll give you a few bucks off a new iPhone/iPad/Macbook.

You have other options besides piecing together decades old radios. Other vendors like Harris, EFJ/Kenwood, Relm and Tait (now owned by Harris) all sell affordable P25 subscribers. If the system you're utilizing has approved those subscribers, you should investigate all options available to your agency. Most of those vendors will be more than willing to supply demo units if requested.

Like I said in the previous post, I understand that mother M wants to make money. But our area can’t deviate from Motorola.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

I understand where they’re coming from because they want to make money and not deal with older equipment. But it also seems like they’re not trying to take care of the customers needs. Sorry but if a customer needs something to be maintained because their budget cannot support a major change over to the APX line (like allot of departments can’t) or if a department can do increments of purchase then Ma M should be able to provide to the needs of the customer. I know I’m not the only one who feels that way and it’s frustrating for allot of agencies.

You don't really understand though. In spring of 2014 Motorola announced cancellation of the Astro 25 line. With that announcement came the End of Support notice which gave a date (December 31, 2018 for XTx5000 products and December 31, 2019 for XTxx500 products) upon after which the product would no longer be supported. Over 5 years to prepare...

Can you honestly blame a manufacturer who set a hard date a full half service life cycle into the future and notified their customers so they could begin budgeting alternatives? Or do you blame the customer who failed to heed the notice?

 

[Outerdog]

Like I said in the previous post, I understand that mother M wants to make money. But our area can’t deviate from Motorola.

You'd have a much easier time trying to change the policy than trying to change Motorola.

 

[prcguy]

Meanwhile the Motorola guy on the phone saying all this is probably sitting on hundreds of the upgrades you want or need but he is holding them back to make a sale on new radios.

Motorola is in business to stay in business. They're doing exactly what Apple does. Oh, you have a 5 year old iPad/iPhone? Sorry, no new iOS updates for you. No more battery changes for you. But we'll give you a few bucks off a new iPhone/iPad/Macbook.

You have other options besides piecing together decades old radios. Other vendors like Harris, EFJ/Kenwood, Relm and Tait (now owned by Harris) all sell affordable P25 subscribers. If the system you're utilizing has approved those subscribers, you should investigate all options available to your agency. Most of those vendors will be more than willing to supply demo units if requested.

 

[middleofAKTB]

You don't really understand though. In spring of 2014 Motorola announced cancellation of the Astro 25 line. With that announcement came the End of Support notice which gave a date (December 31, 2018 for XTx5000 products and December 31, 2019 for XTxx500 products) upon after which the product would no longer be supported. Over 5 years to prepare...

Can you honestly blame a manufacturer who set a hard date a full half service life cycle into the future and notified their customers so they could begin budgeting alternatives? Or do you blame the customer who failed to heed the notice?

No I do understand and I appreciate everyone’s views and opinions but I’m not here to argue over the perspectives. I’m trying to find solutions to the problem. The comms was put in my lap not very long ago. So to those of you that have been in the position long enough to have all the notices from Motorola back in 2014 to present, more power to you. I haven’t had that luxury of all of the announcements and notifications from Motorola. You may not agree with my opinion that Motorola should aid the customers in some fashion because the funds for a tone of departments are not there to provide switchover to the latest and greatest APX or whichever dealer is out there.

So that being said, my problem is that the radios were not maintained before myself getting handed this position. Yes, it’s my problem now and I’m trying to give solutions to the problem. If you do not have a solution or in some way to aid me in guidance then there’s no need for a response. I appreciate everyone constructive input in my original questions. Thank you

 

[middleofAKTB]

Meanwhile the Motorola guy on the phone saying all this is probably sitting on hundreds of the upgrades you want or need but he is holding them back to make a sale on new radios.

Lol We all know that..

 

[Project25_MASTR]

My suggestion, contact someone like Sunny Communications (they specialized in refurbished radios). See if they can help you out. If not, use them to keep you running on a budget.

I had a customer last year who made the decision that they wanted to migrate off their private VHF trunking system to a regional 800 MHz system. They had begun purchasing new APX7x000s and a new APX8500 before they decided they didn't have the budget for a full fork lift of new radios. So they concentrated their budget on upgrading from the XTL5000 based consolettes connected to their MCC5500 to APX8500 consolettes (which would give them dual band functionality without having to purchase additional consolettes). To round off the migration they would essentially trade in their other Astro 25 radios to Sunny for 800 MHz versions at $150 delta per radio. Grand total was somewhere around $65,000 (including labor). Our MR was pissed that they went and bought used radios but we happily did the labor.

The year before, this customer's neighbor had made the same migration (off the VHF system to 800 MHz). They were sold APX8x00s. 32 mobiles and 80 portables plus a new MCC7100 console (literally the last one Motorola shipped) with APX6500 consolettes. What they had was a mix of XTS1500's and XTL1500's. They were sold on the 8k's "for interoperability". To be fair, they did need a new console but they did not need the 8ks. In fact, once the cutover was finished (which it took me 2 hrs per vehicle to convert dash mount XTLs in GamberJohson consoles) to the remote mount 8500's on 32 vehicles) the radio's never went back to VHF. Two years later less than 5 SU's have had any operation on VHF and it certainly wasn't anything that couldn't be handled over a temporary patch. All together that one cost them something like $650,000.

My real point, given adequate notice I've yet to meet a small agency (even volunteer) which could not budget a radio upgrade. Unfortunately you were thrown in to a situation where your predecessor (or lack of) didn't pay attention and plan ahead and now you are having to deal with it. It's not just a Motorola thing though. I've had Kenwood tell customers with 5 year old radios that they needed to buy new radios too...so there's that.

 

[MTS2000des]

Sunny Communications is a great resource if one wants to keep legacy equipment going. They certainly aren't the cheapest route, but they have competent folks and a stock of parts. At the end of the day, many of us understand your plight. Two and a half years ago, I was handed the task of maintaining our agency CAD and implementing a replacement. I literally stepped into a fire. The old CAD was long off support (you know it's bad when you contact the vendor and they use the words "classic" to refer to your product, and there is ONE GUY left who had any knowledge of the product, let alone your implementation), while building a new CAD out and trying to get data conversion done. It was what I was given.

That being said, I can't blame the old vendor for not wanting to step up and assist with me implementing a competitor's product. Essentially asking a vendor to ramp up support which was has ended and plenty of notice given is no different.

The third party support option may be the best route.