Active Shooter in Las Vegas

[allend]

Also, the killer reportedly installed cameras outside his room so that he could monitor the hallway visually, even if he couldn't hear what was going on.

After reading this post above and then hearing on the news that this crazy nut job installed cameras outside of the hallways and his room the ratchet has clicked up a notch. Makes me believe now that scanners are a novel item when it comes to homegrown terrorist attacks for mass murder.

Let me first point out that this is a horrible situation and a tragedy but installing wireless cameras and mounting them down the hallways and at the front door just blows my mind. Technology has grown beyond using radio communication to hear when the po po is coming to get you. So outlaw cameras is something that will be impossible to band. So it would be safe to say at this point that scanners are a non isuue item when it comes to the public wanting to listen. This is old school now.

Something really interesting

 

[APX8000]

Encrypt SWAT, Detective, Surveillance , etc. all day in my opinion. But routine dispatch needs to remain open. And when a Chief says it's for officer safety, ask "Wouldn't you rather have all those people listening so they know where the shots are coming from so they know where to run to or see cover?" Isn't that why Departments tweet out info, or use reverse 911, etc.


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[br0adband]

At one point when I fired up Scanner Radio Pro to listen in on the activity and couldn't get connected but it was showing me there were over 49,000 listeners which was the most I've ever seen on any feed, period. That number stayed "static" for a long period of time because I'm guessing there was just that overload mentioned earlier and the feed info wasn't being sent out. It did take some time before I got actual audio and that's when the number began to come down a bit but even so hours later there were still thousands of listeners which was not surprising.

As for the encryption aspects on the comms, I would hope this thread doesn't derail into the encryption debate since we all know that will just mean it gets locked fast.

Also: people don't need "police scanners" anymore considering the fact that streaming of such audio is readily available in dozens upon dozens of apps on smartphones nowadays regardless of the platform (iOS, Android, Windows Phone, BlackBerry OS10, etc). The laws with respect to monitoring have never really changed on the actual physical receiver/scanner side of things, but after this incident I would almost be willing to bet that some changes will be under strong consideration for the LVMPD communications system.

It's entirely possible that they could flip that switch and encrypt everything and there's really nothing that anyone outside of the city government and the LVMPD administration can or will be able to do about it if that's the decision.

 

[Markb]

...and the feed should of been taken down for respect and safety of all.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. I had family there at the concert who narrowly escaped and barricaded themselves in the basement at the Tropicana. I was able to text them valuable updates throughout the incident.

 

[bfperez]

They patched it to the Nevada Shared Radio System, so everything came out there in the clear as well.

Com501 confirmed https://forums.radioreference.com/nevada-radio-discussion-forum/359827-manaly-bay.html that it was on LV2 up North.

 

[APX8000]

Sorry, but I have to disagree. I had family there at the concert who narrowly escaped and barricaded themselves in the basement at the Tropicana. I was able to text them valuable updates throughout the incident.

Exactly my point.


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[n4njj]

I don't see them going encrypted for events like this. First of all, you had nearly every law enforcement agency in the area respond (it appears as though Boulder City PD and the Paiute Nation PD were the only two that didn't respond)... California Highway Patrol even responded. Those are a ton of different officers responding. The encryption simply won't work. Additionally, they need to be able to pipe it thru SNAAC, NSRS, etc.

Secondly, LVMPD is one of the most transparent, if not THE most transparent departments in the country. Going encrypted hurts that reputation, and at what gain?

Lastly, breaking encryption is illegal and difficult; however, it is not impossible. If someone is going to go thru the hassle that this guy went thru, it's not that hard to acquire the radio and equipment to make it happen. If someone is willing to kill thousands of people, I doubt they care about the repercussions of decrypting police radio chatter.

 

[Harold]

Where do you think those streams for the app. originate? From "Police Scanners" owned by scanner hobbyists, who provide the streams for Boadcasify to which most of those apps. connect. Also remember the Terms of Service for those streams exclude any tactical and other similar type channels from being streamed. Thinking that a police scanner app. is all you need is laughable.

 

[fredva]

Lastly, breaking encryption is illegal and difficult; however, it is not impossible. If someone is going to go thru the hassle that this guy went thru, it's not that hard to acquire the radio and equipment to make it happen. If someone is willing to kill thousands of people, I doubt they care about the repercussions of decrypting police radio chatter.

Considering that you can't "guess" a very complex encryption code, even with a computer trying guesses 24/7, I'm curious what wouldn't be hard about making it happen. Unless hardware or inside info is taken directly from the agency. But that's not "breaking" encryption.

 

[br0adband]

Where do you think those streams for the app. originate? From "Police Scanners" owned by scanner hobbyists, who provide the streams for Boadcasify to which most of those apps. connect. Also remember the Terms of Service for those streams exclude any tactical and other similar type channels from being streamed. Thinking that a police scanner app. is all you need is laughable.

My point being people were asking if the gunman/perp of this incident had a "police scanner" in the hotel suite with him at the time this incident took place and so far we don't have a yes or no on that aspect of the situation.

For the record: I don't own a physical scanner anymore, I haven't for some time - I did own a Pro-668 for a week or two earlier this year when I was still living in Las Vegas - and I use an RTL-based USB stick aka "a cheap USB TV tuner" to monitor such comms. I could easily set up a stream in 5 minutes of my current living area (but there already is one, so that's not really useful I suppose) and I don't need a physical scanner to do it.

As for the exclusion of tactical and similar type channels, all THOSE specific channels in Las Vegas for LVMPD ARE already encrypted and these comms during this event, because of things going so haywire so fast with all the events happening all over the place in that area on LV Blvd, were not being broadcast over those encrypted comms for obvious reasons (interagency comms, support, etc).

I can absolutely assure you that during all of this investigation that's now going on there is also a major review happening of the radio comms during the incident start to finish and they will ultimately make some drastic changes for the future which could lead to encrypting even more content.

This was a terrible tragedy but there simply wasn't going to be any way to prevent it and in the future there still isn't going to be any way to prevent it from happening when someone puts themselves on a course of action like what happened.

There's no fix for Humanity, never will be.

 

[Ghstwolf62]

I am and have always been anti-encryption but when this went down some moron in Texas listening in was on Twitter texting every bloody thing going over the scanner at the time it went out. Including the females name and the address of the suspect. That was from the SEB unit that breached the door of the hotel room. The world knew when the dispatcher knew and that's bad in this type of situation. Its a miracle that some idiot didn't decide to go check out the house in Mesquite or something equally stupid before cops could even begin to think of getting up there.

It makes me reassess my thinking on the subject. That is dangerous on multiple levels.

I wonder if there is something in the system that allows RR or the broadcaster to implement an on the fly delay onto the stream when something like this takes place? It would solve many concerns I would think.

There are also laws about divulging anything you hear on a scanner to any party not physically present hearing said traffic. I wonder how these streamers get away with violating that law.

 

[krokus]

I wonder if there is something in the system that allows RR or the broadcaster to implement an on the fly delay onto the stream when something like this takes place? It would solve many concerns I would think.

Lindsay steadfastly refuses any non-official delays. He refuses to say why, saying it has been discussed in the past, and refuses to direct/link to those conversations.

I have no idea what might make him open to discussion, if anything.

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[prplehz]

Am I the only one that can see there is for sure more than one shooter involved after listening to the audio? Unless officers were hallucinating, they clearly state they see shooters in different places.. People that were there also confirm this. The police say they SEE shooters in several different places throughout the audio.. That isn't possible if there is just one guy in a hotel room. Not to mention video collaborates with a lot of what they say as well. These officers are trained professionals and their safety depends on what they say... Why would they be saying they see shooters in different places if they didn't? Yet we are being told there was one? Come on now...

 

[richee2000]

i heard the same thing.. police said :"multiple shooters" coming from the hotel, and coming from within the fair grounds

 

[lindsay34654]

Active shooter

During an incident of this magnitude there is a large Panic mode tat kicks in NO ONE is checking to see where the shots are coming from or how many shooters there are. (common sense) also no one knew what direction the shoots were coming from. everyone is guessing. So COMMON SENSE say's everyone was guessing and that is it GUESSING. If anyone can state for a fact that during a total panic what they hear is truth and not a guess needs to step back and think about it.

 

[mule1075]

During an incident of this magnitude there is a large Panic mode tat kicks in NO ONE is checking to see where the shots are coming from or how many shooters there are. (common sense) also no one knew what direction the shoots were coming from. everyone is guessing. So COMMON SENSE say's everyone was guessing and that is it GUESSING. If anyone can state for a fact that during a total panic what they hear is truth and not a guess needs to step back and think about it.

+1

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[fredva]

Almost always during mass shootings, there are initially believed to be more shooters than there actually are.

 

[Hooligan]

In addition to the public safety stuff, I listened to Mandalay Bay's two LMR systems (starting about 30 min after the first shots) and other than a couple custodian types that kept making lengthy transmissions, the various department managers were pretty damn cool on the air. Employees not needed for guest safety & security were instructed to calmly evacuate to a location I'll not mention. 1000+ people were in the Michael Jackson Theater at the time, watching the performance of ONE, and theater staff did a great job of trying to keep them calm & as comfortable as-possible while they sheltered in-place for several hours. You can imagine how some of the audience were getting panicky after seeing the social media reports of active shooters right there at & around Mandy.

One freq where there was some sheer terror & semi-panic (understandably so) was one of what I think was the CSC Event Security channels -- "Either find cover, or get the hell out of there!" is a paraphrase of what I heard.

I wasn't initially monitoring my LV Banks, but I heard a Henderson PD Patrol Supervisor advise all units to respond Code-3 to a staging-area at the M Resort, where they'll then don their MACTAC gear & deploy from there. Hearing MACTAC mentioned for a real-world scenario gets your attention...

 

[prplehz]

There's a HUGE difference between believing and seeing. They say they SEE shooters.... They don't say, we believe this, or we believe that... If they believed such things, that is what they'd have said.... That's not what professional trained police officers said though....

 

[krokus]

During an incident of this magnitude there is a large Panic mode tat kicks in NO ONE is checking to see where the shots are coming from or how many shooters there are. (common sense) also no one knew what direction the shoots were coming from. everyone is guessing. So COMMON SENSE say's everyone was guessing and that is it GUESSING. If anyone can state for a fact that during a total panic what they hear is truth and not a guess needs to step back and think about it.

This pretty much nails it. Just think about how many times there have been different, sometimes conflicting, reports, even from trained observers.

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