Active Shooter in Las Vegas

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KC4RAF

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Lindsay34654, as others have noted, has posted what happens in incidents such as the shooting. Witnesses at auto crashes have had conflicting observations with other witnesses. It's the nature of humans.
Was there other shooters at the concert? I highly doubt it.
 

Wilrobnson

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There's a HUGE difference between believing and seeing. They say they SEE shooters.... They don't say, we believe this, or we believe that... If they believed such things, that is what they'd have said.... That's not what professional trained police officers said though....

I've attended, facilitated and instructed active shooter training, from local stuff to ALERRT and LASER. In one of the most memorable instances I can recall, I had a 23-year veteran patrol officer put 3 sim rounds into his beat partner at a distance of 20 yards. His beat partner was wearing a normal patrol uniform. During the hotwash, I asked why he had shot his partner- his response was "I honestly just saw his gun and thought he was the bad guy".

I watched my own bodycam of response to a minor active shooter situation last year. I heard myself muttering that there were possibly 2, maybe 3 shooters in the structure...There was one guy with a gun.

Human-powered means potential for human errors. Don't get swept into the conspiracy tardstorm of the Internet.
 

br0adband

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If you were to stand at the point on LV Blvd where the festival concert was taking place, with LOS to the windows of the suite at the Mandalay Bay where the shooter was stationed, and one single shot was fired from that suite (let's say a blank round for this example) - just one single shot - by the time the sound of the blank being fired reached you at your position, within a few milliseconds of that first audio report of the weapon being fired you'd probably hear at least 10 other reports because of the layout of that area with all the reflections of the audio happening and hitting your position (no pun intended).

So, I have no issue whatsoever with the situation when it was happening in real-time and being reported as multiple shooters by several LVMPD personnel, festival security, witnesses and participants. It's just common sense, folks, that in such a situation and with multiple rapid weapon fire the capacity to echo-locate the exact point of origin of the weapons fire would be effectively impossible and it would have to rely on visual cues more than anything else or the report that was made by the Mandalay Bay security personnel since we now know the security guard was shot before the actual fire on the festival crowd began.

There were several released body cam videos from LVMPD officers on the scene and they were coming up on the Mandalay Bay from the side road that runs perpendicular to the hotel itself on Mandalay Bay Road (runs East/West) and even though they were completely out of the visual range of the windows to that suite it was pretty clear from the audio portion of those videos that the reports (and by reports I mean the audio of an actual round being fired) were coming literally from every angle around them possible. No, they don't wear stereo mics on the body cam assemblies but if you simply listen to the audio with your eyes closed (so you can focus on the audio portion exclusively) and try to imagine yourself in that situation it's pretty easy (unfortunately) to realize all hell was breaking loose around them.

No matter how bad this turned out, no matter how many people have died from this, no matter how many lives have been destroyed or severely damaged for years and decades to come, the situation could have been much much worse and thankfully it ended as quickly as it did. If the shooter hadn't decided for whatever reason to end his own life at the point he did, who knows how long it would have taken the LVMPD to properly breach the door and get inside and end it.

While I'm no longer a resident of Las Vegas, I did live there for almost 12 years until recently and never had any issues with the LVMPD and I know they went through some trying times in the recent past but as we all know there was no way to truly plan for this kind of incident, and even with it having happened and with all the changes to come there's still no way such an incident can be prevented if someone has the will to make it a reality.

I commend the LVMPD and all the emergency services on every level as well as the participants that attended the festival who found themselves in a war zone through no fault of their own. I hope all parties involved are able to move on and recover soon and make the best of the lives they still have a chance to live.

Even though I've only been away from Las Vegas about 2.5 months so far, I miss the place already and I hope to return someday.
 

sean_

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I was at Mandalay Bay on Sunday evening for an event at the HoB. The outside stage is still setup, police tape is still around various parts of the facility, and police are still in key parts of the crime scene. If nothing were to have happened that night, I'm sure that stage would be packed up hours after the Route 91 event ended.

Seeing how there's only two broken windows for one suite, I don't understand the multiple shooter discussion. Watching/listening to the videos from the people at the concert, I also only hear one set of gunfire at a time. I don't think the LVMPD will speak to this much more, as if this is truly a coverup, they'll want to hide it. I imagine it would be pretty hard to hide with as much footage as we've seen, though. Police cameras, hotel cameras, concert goers cameras, etc.
 

sean_

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Is MACTAC this?
Multi-Assault Counter Terrorism Action Capability

How's it pronounced over the radio - MAC TAC?

What regional police agencies didn't respond?
 

prplehz

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If you were to stand at the point on LV Blvd where the festival concert was taking place, with LOS to the windows of the suite at the Mandalay Bay where the shooter was stationed, and one single shot was fired from that suite (let's say a blank round for this example) - just one single shot - by the time the sound of the blank being fired reached you at your position, within a few milliseconds of that first audio report of the weapon being fired you'd probably hear at least 10 other reports because of the layout of that area with all the reflections of the audio happening and hitting your position (no pun intended).

So, I have no issue whatsoever with the situation when it was happening in real-time and being reported as multiple shooters by several LVMPD personnel, festival security, witnesses and participants. It's just common sense, folks, that in such a situation and with multiple rapid weapon fire the capacity to echo-locate the exact point of origin of the weapons fire would be effectively impossible and it would have to rely on visual cues more than anything else or the report that was made by the Mandalay Bay security personnel since we now know the security guard was shot before the actual fire on the festival crowd began.

There were several released body cam videos from LVMPD officers on the scene and they were coming up on the Mandalay Bay from the side road that runs perpendicular to the hotel itself on Mandalay Bay Road (runs East/West) and even though they were completely out of the visual range of the windows to that suite it was pretty clear from the audio portion of those videos that the reports (and by reports I mean the audio of an actual round being fired) were coming literally from every angle around them possible. No, they don't wear stereo mics on the body cam assemblies but if you simply listen to the audio with your eyes closed (so you can focus on the audio portion exclusively) and try to imagine yourself in that situation it's pretty easy (unfortunately) to realize all hell was breaking loose around them.

No matter how bad this turned out, no matter how many people have died from this, no matter how many lives have been destroyed or severely damaged for years and decades to come, the situation could have been much much worse and thankfully it ended as quickly as it did. If the shooter hadn't decided for whatever reason to end his own life at the point he did, who knows how long it would have taken the LVMPD to properly breach the door and get inside and end it.

While I'm no longer a resident of Las Vegas, I did live there for almost 12 years until recently and never had any issues with the LVMPD and I know they went through some trying times in the recent past but as we all know there was no way to truly plan for this kind of incident, and even with it having happened and with all the changes to come there's still no way such an incident can be prevented if someone has the will to make it a reality.

I commend the LVMPD and all the emergency services on every level as well as the participants that attended the festival who found themselves in a war zone through no fault of their own. I hope all parties involved are able to move on and recover soon and make the best of the lives they still have a chance to live.

Even though I've only been away from Las Vegas about 2.5 months so far, I miss the place already and I hope to return someday.

Can you or anyone explain the Taxi video? The one NBC edited to fit their narrative. The woman driver really says there's gunshots, why aren't people running? On NBC though they changed it to say there's gunshots, people running or something similar. I can't remember exactly, but it was NOT what she really said. The same video, you can hear gunshots in the distance, then all of a sudden there are clearly gunshots very close to the Taxi. NBC left that part out too. NOW WHY WOULD THEY DO THIS? All this fits what the police are saying. It's all on youtube for your viewing pleasure. Yes there would be some confusion, but not every single thing they say... Also explain the shot security guard and how the timeline keeps changing..
 

smfeather

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Does anyone have a list of LVMPD radio unit designators (call signs)? For example 2-Nora-24, what does each character represent? Am I correct in assuming 2 would be AGENCY, N would be SHIFT, and 24 would be BEAT? Any assistance is appreciated.
 

Ghstwolf62

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If you listened to the audio they were getting multiple reports of active shooters at multiple hotels/locations and multiple reports of people down from gunshot wounds at multiple locations.

The key word here is "Reports"

They dispatched Tac teams to those locations and found no active shooters. The closest was one panicked officer saying there was an active shooter at her location and once the dispatcher clarified if the officer had heard actual gunshots or people telling her about gunshots she came back and said security was reporting gunshots to her but she didn't actually hear any herself. Command even wondered if the officer was fake and someone got a hold of a radio. Dispatch quickly confirmed the officer as real.

A supervisor who I believe was IC got on the radio and said these reports might well be diversionary tactics and respond accordingly.

More than likely in this chaotic situation you had thousands of people many injured running every which way to take cover wherever they could do so including running into hotels everywhere etc.

Seeing injured, bleeding people etc. caused others to panic and "Assume" they were being shot in these other locations hence calling in "Reports" of people down, being shot and obviously to their minds someone present shooting them there in these locations.

That is what I'd logically think would explain a great deal.

I, of course, may be completely wrong.

The utter chaos and confusion in something like this is beyond belief and add untrained and frightened people into it and it becomes a nightmare. People are scared and confused to say the least. They jump to conclusions, create non-existent threats, and much, much more.

As the other poster said even trained professionals have issues.

Creating conspiracy theories is nice but unproductive to say the least. Its worse because no clear cut motive has been found or hasn't been released which allows some people to come up with wild and ridiculous ideas which only makes things worse.

The taxi video used by some conspiracy sites has been disproved by earlier video showing the same light on the fourth floor earlier in the evening and showing it to be a light and not muzzle flashes.

People just love to second, third etc guess the police and their actions. Its real nice to say later on the cops "Should have known" fill in the blank. But in real time of an event they have to figure it out on the spot as they go along. That can and often does sound like chaos but their job, which they do a tremendous job of, is to sort through said chaos and make some kind of order out of it and they do this every day of the week for big things as well as little ones.
 

Ghstwolf62

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Lindsay steadfastly refuses any non-official delays. He refuses to say why, saying it has been discussed in the past, and refuses to direct/link to those conversations.

I have no idea what might make him open to discussion, if anything.

Sent via Tapatalk

Lovely.

Thanks for the information. Considering what happens if comments are made on this subject I guess I'll refrain but you can probably guess what they would be..........
 

Wilrobnson

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Can you or anyone explain the Taxi video? The one NBC edited to fit their narrative. The woman driver really says there's gunshots, why aren't people running? On NBC though they changed it to say there's gunshots, people running or something similar. I can't remember exactly, but it was NOT what she really said. The same video, you can hear gunshots in the distance, then all of a sudden there are clearly gunshots very close to the Taxi. NBC left that part out too. NOW WHY WOULD THEY DO THIS? All this fits what the police are saying. It's all on youtube for your viewing pleasure. Yes there would be some confusion, but not every single thing they say... Also explain the shot security guard and how the timeline keeps changing..

Explain NBC editing video?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin#Deceptive_audio_editing_by_NBC

Can you explain why, when I first heard about this incident (a few minutes after the initial reports), when I looked at SnapChat Maps and narrowed the area down to the scene. I saw video of people huddled next to what appeared to be a hot dog cart with multiple gunshots heard while a male in the background kept repeating "It's not guns, it's coming from the speakers". NOW WHY WOULD THEY DO THIS?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normalcy_bias

Timeline? That's a political agenda-driven problem. You conspiracy theorists spout off and the police, in an effort to provide information, proclaim things like that before they verify them. They're trying to give info out to assuage a public hue and cry, then, when they have to change details as they narrow them down to an absolute, get heckled as liars and cover-up artists.

/derail
 
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Ghstwolf62

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Explain NBC editing video?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin#Deceptive_audio_editing_by_NBC

Can you explain why, when I first heard about this incident (a few minutes after the initial reports), when I looked at SnapChat Maps and narrowed the area down to the scene. I saw video of people huddled next to what appeared to be a hot dog cart with multiple gunshots heard while a male in the background kept repeating "It's not guns, it's coming from the speakers". NOW WHY WOULD THEY DO THIS?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normalcy_bias

Timeline? That's a political agenda-driven problem. You conspiracy theorists spout off and the police, in an effort to provide information, proclaim things like that before they verify them. They're trying to give info out to assuage a public hue and cry, then, when they have to change details as they narrow them down to an absolute, get heckled as liars and cover-up artists.

/derail

You are exactly right. Oh and get used to people whining about things on here. Its a frequent occurrence. :)
 
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