Hello all. i am just curious. I, from time to time, will here a talk group on bellfleetnet and it will be NOT encrypted then within the same time a person will talk and it will go encrypted then when someone else replies back to the person who was encrypted it is not encrypted.. why the sporatic encryption? is it a matter of the TG suppose to be encrypted and it is not working or vice versa? and when i do hear it it shows up ENC on my scanner .
ENCryption here and there?
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EJB
20 + year membership
I have heard this also, perhaps one of the officers did not hit their encryption button. Enjoy the comms, they can get 'interesting' from time to time.
EJB said:I have heard this also, perhaps one of the officers did not hit their encryption button. Enjoy the comms, they can get 'interesting' from time to time.
Well maybe. But in the instances that i do hear it it would be like an hour of them talking in the clear then maybe someone transmits for 5 seconds and it is encrypted then it is all in the clear for an other 30 mins and then encryption for a couple of transmissions then back to normal. it makes no sense. I thought if the radios tg was encrypted it would have to be done a head of time not on the fly.. am i wrong ?
perronally, i think it is kinda cool but if they are talking about sensitive information it should be encrypted so no one that might be listening for illegal gain can figure out what is going on.
EJB
20 + year membership
Not sure, IIRC I heard mention here that there is a button that the officers press when they want to encrypt their comms.
Perhaps one officer did not remember to press the magic button???
Again, enjoy what you hear and remember the golden rule,
discrete is elite.
Perhaps one officer did not remember to press the magic button???
Again, enjoy what you hear and remember the golden rule,
discrete is elite.
I hear this in Calgary often. There are two ways to do encryption - the system manager can set a channel as full encrypted, which means everything is encrypted, period. Or users can encrypt on a regular channel, per their preference. In the latter, they have the ability to run encryption or not, as has been mentioned, using a switch on the radio (generally known as "coded" or "clear").
The thing is, the end users of the radio system don't know if they're operating in 'coded' or not, unless they look at the switch. To the person using the radio, hearing someone else sounds the same in clear or coded transmissions. So you could have one guy out of a surveillance team of 5 or 6, who has forgotten to set his encryption switch on. That's likely what you're hearing.
The thing is, the end users of the radio system don't know if they're operating in 'coded' or not, unless they look at the switch. To the person using the radio, hearing someone else sounds the same in clear or coded transmissions. So you could have one guy out of a surveillance team of 5 or 6, who has forgotten to set his encryption switch on. That's likely what you're hearing.
Jammin_Jay
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I see your point Jay, but wouldn't a dispatcher's console indicate a radio ID mode status, if a mobile or portable radio is in encryption mode or not to determine if they should reveal certain information over the airwaves, or advise the person who is using the radio to switch their status to encrypt, before transmitting. I suppose it depends on the type of encryption, and how modern the radio system is with certain new features.
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Jammin_Jay said:
As far as I know, yes, the console will display the padlock symbol instead of the speaker symbol (in the case of the Motorola consoles my center uses) if someone on that resource is transmitting with encryption. In my region, though, the channels on which encryption is used aren't even available to the dispatchers, let alone monitored by them.
Jay said:
No, i hear at least 10 people talking and i know it is pretty much all of them and it is clear as day and ONLY sometimes it goes encrypted when EITHER one person transmits or it is a matter of a minute or so of a couple of transmisions being encrypted, then normal. And yes like the other guy said "discreet is elite" soo i am not going to say where or what agency or anything but all i am jsut curious as to maybe there is a problem with the Motorola Bell FLEETNET DIGITAL system because if these people think they are running encrypted radios and actually are not and are letting out sensitive info, then that is not good.
Well, there's very little indication to the officer if they are encrypted or not. Because it's digital, there is no audio difference between the two. He/she would have to check to see if the encryption switch is enabled. There is also a programmable "clear" beep which will beep at the beginning of any transmission if it's not encrypted. However this feature isn't enabled in the Fleetnet radios that have encryption.
So it's probably just a case of the officer honestly not knowing he/she isn't encrypted.
So it's probably just a case of the officer honestly not knowing he/she isn't encrypted.
RayAir
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Jay911 said:
I know that Transcrypt and many other scramblers installed in radios will auto decode scrambled audio from another unit with matching codes even if the receiving radio is in clear mode. If the receiving radio replies back without going secure then he will transmit in the clear.
Jammin_Jay said:
It might but none of the encrypted talkgroups on Fleetnet are available to the dispatchers.
Can you give us some examples.
I still stand by my statement that no encrypted talkgroups are available to dispatch.
I still stand by my statement that no encrypted talkgroups are available to dispatch.
Mike_Oxlong said:
Well the CISO radios are not monitered by a dispatch. whether they are in the clear or encrypted, you are right about that. however, i have heard radio chatter on ONE certain TG that sometimes is encrypted and other time not ( i made a prior post about this, how they think they are running encrypted when actually i can hear them plain as day) and i can hear a dispatch from time to time, when they ask for her, so therefor she would have to be monitoring the TG
slidder said:
Once again, do you have a specific talkgoup?
Plain and simple, the investigative talkgroups that are sometimes encrypted are not monitored by the Comm Centre.
Muxlow
Super Secret
When i herd the OPP on their encrypted talk group, but it was in the clear. They were saying some very odd and funny things that if anyone els other then the 5 or so officers who were on that chann herd. they would be in trouble i think.
And when they would want to run a plate number they would use their cell and call the com center or have a portable that was on the com center TG
only herd that once thou for about a hour.
And when they would want to run a plate number they would use their cell and call the com center or have a portable that was on the com center TG
only herd that once thou for about a hour.
Muxlow said:
People using encrypted or unmonitored radios tend to be far more lax in their radio etiquette than their colleagues on open channels. I even see (well, hear) this on tactical channels for the fire service, which are clear but aren't monitored by dispatch.
nova1010
Member
slidder said:
Obviously if your hearing them then their not encrypted,plain and simple and the dispatcher is only responding to an unencrypted caller.plain and simple.
Mike_Oxlong said:
are you just referring to fleetnet?? or any type of radio system?
anyways i know what i hear and i am not going to give up the TG on a web site that MAYBE a criminal will see and will know that it is not being encrypted from time to time lol. but maybe 99.5% of them are not monitored but i can guarantee at least 1 TG is monitored in ontario
nuff said
I'm referring to Fleetnet since your very first post asked about Fleetnet.
The Investigative officers can choose whether to encrypt or not to encrypt. It's as simple as flipping a switch or pressing a button. Sometimes they forget to flip the switch and that's why you hear only half the conversation. Nothing more, nothing less.
I'll repeat it again, there are no encrypted talkgroups on Fleetnet that the dispatcher monitors.
These talkgroups are not monitored by dispatch since there's just too activity that doesn't concern the dispatcher. If they want to run a plate, they switch over to one of the regular OPS groups or call in.
The Investigative officers can choose whether to encrypt or not to encrypt. It's as simple as flipping a switch or pressing a button. Sometimes they forget to flip the switch and that's why you hear only half the conversation. Nothing more, nothing less.
I'll repeat it again, there are no encrypted talkgroups on Fleetnet that the dispatcher monitors.
These talkgroups are not monitored by dispatch since there's just too activity that doesn't concern the dispatcher. If they want to run a plate, they switch over to one of the regular OPS groups or call in.
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