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Trunker program ran on Seymour SAFET Site

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del1964

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#1
I ran a trunker program tonight for about 45 minutes and found these frequencies:
856.2875
856.3375
866.4625
868.9875
867.4125
867.8875
868.3625
868.9125
866.1250
866.1750

856.3375, 866.1250, 866.1750 & 856.2875 are not on RR for this site. RR site frequencies came up right away as unitrunker was running but the others slowly came up along with "ENC" communications on these it looked like unlisted ID's = 35896, 18800, 39984, 39992 and 19504 couple of these might have been listed actually on RR but others were not. New to the Unitrunker program and SAFET and all that so was hoping someone "in the know" might be able to give me some answers. Also, I programmed these "other" trunk frequencies in along with these unidentified TGID's but so far have got absolutely nothing when I actually scan them. Does the new BCD396XT not receive ENC hits at all? Also, who actually inputs the information on RR? Members? I'm willing to help!
 
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#2
along with "ENC" communications ... Does the new BCD396XT not receive ENC hits at all? Also, who actually inputs the information on RR? Members? I'm willing to help!
When you see "enc" displayed in the service column, it indicates encryption is in use. The program knows this from the information sent out on the control channel at the time of the voice channel grant.

I don't know about the Uniden radios, but the GRE-built radios will ignore a channel grant using encryption on a Motorola Type II (3600 baud) system, even if you have the talkgroup in your scan list or have programmed a wildcard (500 and 600) or open bank on the older radios (96 and 2096). Note that this is not true for P25 systems (9600 baud) such as MECA. On a P25 system, they'll tune to the voice channel even if the group is encrypted and all you hear is garbled mess.

There's no point for the scanner to tune to the voice channel for an encrypted group because you're not going to understand any of what's being said. If you really want to listen to the garbled mess, you can manually select the group and hold on it, and when an encrypted grant comes up, you'll hear audio, but nothing even remotely understandable.

Encryption is available on various talkgroups across the state. In my area, I've only heard it used by ISP on the major drug, governor security detail, and special detail talkgroups. Often times traffic is in-the-clear, with the exception being the governor security group, which I've never heard in-the-clear. It may not be possible for radios to operate in-the-clear on some groups, depending on how they are programmed. I've heard that Bedford PD uses encryption full-time on SAFE-T. Otherwise, I'm not sure where else its in use.

If you ran UT on one site, then your window should populate with the control and voice channels for that site as the program learns them. I would recommend importing the system from the RR database for a good start in identifying groups.

Information for the database is submitted via the submission form in the database, and put in by a database administrator who works the ticket as it is assigned to them.
 

DaveIN

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#3
When you use the BCD396XT by itself, you only need to program the control channel. The radio will follow all the correct voice channels from the data it sees on the control channel using the control channel only method. If you have another P25 capable scanner, keep an eye on the voice channels and see if the same frequencies are being displayed on UniTrunker to be sure what your seeing is actually correct. Also remember that the SAFE-T system is a Motorola Omnilink mixed mode system, which means it can have analog and P25 talkgroups and any encrypted talkgroups will be skipped by the the 396, display "ENC", and will not open the squelch to play the encrypted (noise) audio.
 

del1964

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#4
Very informative, thank you very much. Should I submit frequencies that I found on the Seymour that are not shown on RR?
As far as enc messages, I think it's neat "just knowing" that it's being used even if I can't understand what's being said. I'll try the holding on a channel thing and see if I can even pick up the "enc" message actually on the scanner display. Also, does it or would it make any difference if I have selected "ALL" under the voice instead of "digital only" or "analog" only even if the radio operator switches between digital or analog?
 

del1964

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#5
So you can"t "force" the scanner to show OR open the squelch on a ENC channel? I'm assuming if it can't open squelch, that it wouldn't stop on that channel during scan. but if you held on that channel, would it display the "ENC" on the display? Just curious.
 

KD4YGG

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#6
I ran the Unitrunker program tonight with my new BCD396XT for about 45 minutes and found these frequencies on the Seymour, IN SAFET Smartzone II P25 Omnilink site:
856.2875
856.3375
866.4625
868.9875
867.4125
867.8875cc
868.3625
868.9125
866.1250
866.1750

856.3375, 866.1250, 866.1750 & 856.2875 are not on RR for this site. RR site frequencies came up right away as unitrunker was running but the others slowly came up along with "ENC" communications on these it looked like unlisted ID's = 35896, 18800, 39984, 39992 and 19504 couple of these might have been listed actually on RR but others were not. New to the Unitrunker program and SAFET and all that so was hoping someone "in the know" might be able to give me some answers. Also, I programmed these "other" trunk frequencies in along with these unidentified TGID's but so far have got absolutely nothing when I actually scan them. Does the new BCD396XT not receive ENC hits at all? Also, who actually inputs the information on RR? Members? I'm willing to help!
UNITRUNKER is very sensitive to signal levels.
If you don't have a good signal, a lot of funny stuff can show up.
 

del1964

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#7
Looked like I had a very strong signal. I live in downtown Seymour so I assume the tower is right there somewhere. I was also wondering if there was a correlation between the unpublished frequencies and the talkgroup(s) that were showing up as "enc" on those frequencies?
 

DaveIN

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#8
So you can"t "force" the scanner to show OR open the squelch on a ENC channel? I'm assuming if it can't open squelch, that it wouldn't stop on that channel during scan. but if you held on that channel, would it display the "ENC" on the display? Just curious.
Yes, that's correct.
 

KD4YGG

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#10
I was also wondering if there was a correlation between the unpublished frequencies and the talkgroup(s) that were showing up as "enc" on those frequencies?
Yes... it's all noise.

Unitrunker is a good tool, but not bullet proof.

Trust me... you're not missing anything:
1) If you have the correct control channels programmed in, the scanner tunes to the right frequencies.
2) If it IS encryption, you can't decode it anyway so why bother or worry about those?
 

del1964

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#11
Last question

Ok....so if I scan with "C-CH only" turned ON and I DID NOT have the other voice channels all programmed in (let's say I missed one), would the Control Channel still let me hear and tune to the proper frequency to hear the traffic on a frequency that was not programmed in for that system? see what I'm asking...What if the site had additional frequencies that RR did not yet have? Would I be SOL?
 

KD4YGG

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#12
Ok....so if I scan with "C-CH only" turned ON and I DID NOT have the other voice channels all programmed in (let's say I missed one), would the Control Channel still let me hear and tune to the proper frequency to hear the traffic on a frequency that was not programmed in for that system?QUOTE]

Yes... you would be fine.

Use C-CH only and use talkgroup ID-Search versus talkgroup ID-Scan and you'll hear everything.
 
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#14
Seymour SAFE-T

I think thier tower is located at the police headquarters. Also does anyone know if Seymour Fire is on Safe-T yet. I still here them on the old setup. Also what about Jackson County EMS, FIre departments???

Thanks
 

del1964

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#15
Yes, I can confirm that Jackson County EMS, Fire, Police & County Sheriff are all on the SAFE-T system. They are also using the old system...at least EMS and Fire are.
 

jerk

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#16
Looked like I had a very strong signal. I live in downtown Seymour so I assume the tower is right there somewhere. I was also wondering if there was a correlation between the unpublished frequencies and the talkgroup(s) that were showing up as "enc" on those frequencies?
Seymour Tower is at the State PD Post, Brownstown is near Brownstown
I believe Seymour's tower is directional towards I-65
 

del1964

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#17
I'm about maybe a mile from the State Police post up the street from me....Tipton Street. I wonder what's going to happen when they close that post down?
 

jerk

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#18
I'm about maybe a mile from the State Police post up the street from me....Tipton Street. I wonder what's going to happen when they close that post down?
Probably nothing, the State will still own the property... so it will remain a tower site.
they'll just find another way to waste tax dollars with it.
 
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