2 way Guru?

[N_Jay]

You missing the fact that your radio is not legal on those frequencies, even if modified to go there.

1 . . . I'm sure we all know what's legal and what's not. . . . .

2 . . . Even if we didn't, you need to come out of the closet and take a look at what a lot of people in emergency management and law enforcement use.

3 . . . There is a lot of opened up ham rigs in government use right now, and there always will be. It costs thousands vs. hundreds of dollars to get the "legal" radio equipment. The higher up's don't always want to pay for the equipment a person needs to do a job, so, the person improvises. I don't see a lot of harm in this practice.

1) I think that is a bad assumption. (As shown many times right here)

2) I do, and ALWAYS inform my clients when I come across this in their operations.

3) Lots of people break lots of laws, that does not make it legal.
a) Everyone does it
b) The legal way is too expensive
c) I'm not hurting anyone

Anyone with kids every hear those excuses?

No flame, why not just say "I don't care if I am breaking the law."
At least that is the truth!

 

[N_Jay]

A long time ago I read where the 2-way radio industry was upset about
losing business and got a rule passed that the GSA will only allow the federal
government to buy Part 90 type accepted radios.
Anybody know if this is really true?

Tom

Sounds like bunk to me.

I am confident that the GSA like most governement purchase agrements has a requirment for "Fitness for use", as in you cant sell the government a product that is not fit for the intened use.

If the intended use is part 90 frequencies, then it must be part 90 certified.

 

[colheli]

The company I work for is the fuel contractor for several commercial airlines...with that said, rather than carry 4 radios from different airlines I would like to use my vx 5r. I have the frequencies that I need and have added them to the database here. I can recieve but cannot talk back (radio is modified to talk on all freq).

Southwest for instance

uplink 456.48750
Recieve 451.48750

when I set up my radio for repeter opperation with the 5mhz offset, SWA cannot hear me transmit. What am I missing? Any help would be greatly appreciated...if you know the answer or how to figure it out I would like to know that also I will have to do this for several other airlines.


Thanks in advance,


Eric

Eric,

Getting this topic back on thread: The first thing you need to do is contact SWA's radio people, and find out exactly what you need, to utilize the repeater. As some others pointed out, there may be a CTCSS/DCS tone required. Just knowing the frequencies may not be enough. Once you are sure that you have your radio programmed correctly, then try it again. If it still doesn't work, have someone take a look at it. If you are providing fueling services for SWA, then maybe their local avionics guys(if there are any there) can check out your rig, and make sure it is working. Would you really need 4 different radios to handle all of your customers? I would think that everyone there would be on either UHF (as SWA is), or VHF?

 

[jhooten]

There is a lot of opened up ham rigs in government use right now, and there always will be. It costs thousands vs. hundreds of dollars to get the "legal" radio equipment. The higher up's don't always want to pay for the equipment a person needs to do a job, so, the person improvises. I don't see a lot of harm in this practice.

Let the flames begin.

Digital and trunking are slowly taking care of this little problem. Unless you think a ham manufacturer is on the verge of releasing a full APCO 25 compliant radio anytime soon.

Edit to add:

Part 90 has nothing to do with federal govt users. The NTIA Manual of Regulations lays out the tech specs radios must meet for use in the federal service and they are much more stringent than Part 90.

 

[N_Jay]

Edit to add:

Part 90 has nothing to do with federal govt users. The NTIA Manual of Regulations lays out the tech specs radios must meet for use in the federal service and they are much more stringent than Part 90.

Silly me.

Have not worked directly with the feds in a long time.

It does seem like mostly Part 90 equipment is used.

 

[jhooten]

In 15 years (less 50 days) that I have been at my current post I have Sledge hammerd HT220, MT500, HT90, P100, HT600 (the landscape foreman did save me the trouble on one which he ran over with a tractor mounted shredder), and MT1000 because they were no longer in compliance. Mainly frequency tolerance. The HT1000s in current use will soon be surplused (I hope, I get very depressed hammering perfectly good radios) because we have to get off the wider VHF channels and go to narrower UHF. Another change in the MOR. And all that was just the portables. Mobiles have gone from Maxtrac to Spectra to Astro Spectra

 

[N_Jay]

In 15 years (less 50 days) that I have been at my current post I have Sledge hammerd HT220, MT500, HT90, P100, HT600 (the landscape foreman did save me the trouble on one which he ran over with a tractor mounted shredder), and MT1000 because they were no longer in compliance. Mainly frequency tolerance. The HT1000s in current use will soon be surplused (I hope, I get very depressed hammering perfectly good radios) because we have to get off the wider VHF channels and go to narrower UHF. Another change in the MOR. And all that was just the portables. Mobiles have gone from Maxtrac to Spectra to Astro Spectra

Why don't they surplus them?

 

[WX5JCH]

I'm wondering if it's illegal to use a commercial radio on ham frequencies? I've been using my personal 32 ch. Kenwood TK-270 for both ham and fire/ems. Since it's illegal to use ham on commercial channels wouldn't the law be the same in reverse?

 

[N_Jay]

I'm wondering if it's illegal to use a commercial radio on ham frequencies? I've been using my personal 32 ch. Kenwood TK-270 for both ham and fire/ems. Since it's illegal to use ham on commercial channels wouldn't the law be the same in reverse?

I hope you are joking. :roll:

If not please return your amateur license to the FCC immediately! :wink:

 

[jhooten]

In 15 years (less 50 days) that I have been at my current post I have Sledge hammerd HT220, MT500, HT90, P100, HT600 (the landscape foreman did save me the trouble on one which he ran over with a tractor mounted shredder), and MT1000 because they were no longer in compliance. Mainly frequency tolerance. The HT1000s in current use will soon be surplused (I hope, I get very depressed hammering perfectly good radios) because we have to get off the wider VHF channels and go to narrower UHF. Another change in the MOR. And all that was just the portables. Mobiles have gone from Maxtrac to Spectra to Astro Spectra

Why don't they surplus them?

In the past is was to keep the secret radio freqs from falling it to the wrong hands. I asked one time "You mean the ones that are published in the book you can buy at Radio Shack?" and was told I was "mistaken". They have receintly revised the policy on clearing out the progrmmed freqs and other "sensitive" info from the radio so they can be surplused. The old timers are retiring and the "new Kids" are more technically inclined and know the capabilities of the equipment better. They also realize in these days of tight budgets that auctioning the old stuff is a way to bring in cash to help with replacement cost.

At some point in the near future I am supposed to recieve a "dummy" code plug to put in the radio before it is surplused of even sent out for repair (as if I can't make up my own, but this one will be a standard agency wide).

 

[N_Jay]

In 15 years (less 50 days) that I have been at my current post I have Sledge hammerd HT220, MT500, HT90, P100, HT600 (the landscape foreman did save me the trouble on one which he ran over with a tractor mounted shredder), and MT1000 because they were no longer in compliance. Mainly frequency tolerance. The HT1000s in current use will soon be surplused (I hope, I get very depressed hammering perfectly good radios) because we have to get off the wider VHF channels and go to narrower UHF. Another change in the MOR. And all that was just the portables. Mobiles have gone from Maxtrac to Spectra to Astro Spectra

Why don't they surplus them?

In the past is was to keep the secret radio freqs from falling it to the wrong hands. I asked one time "You mean the ones that are published in the book you can buy at Radio Shack?" and was told I was "mistaken". They have receintly revised the policy on clearing out the progrmmed freqs and other "sensitive" info from the radio so they can be surplused. The old timers are retiring and the "new Kids" are more technically inclined and know the capabilities of the equipment better. They also realize in these days of tight budgets that auctioning the old stuff is a way to bring in cash to help with replacement cost.

At some point in the near future I am supposed to recieve a "dummy" code plug to put in the radio before it is surplused of even sent out for repair (as if I can't make up my own, but this one will be a standard agency wide).

If your a federal aagency (just guessing) then doesn't your surplus equipment get offered to the states for free?

 

[jhooten]

If it is deemed to be accecptable to be transferred; other federal agencies first, then other govt entities(with restrictions), then auction, then dumpster(in itty bitty pieces of course). Stays on the available list for 90 days then bumped dowm to the next list unitl finally trashed if not donated or sold.

If the agency is willing to document that there is some compelling reason why the property should not be released it can go straight to the "demil by sledge hammer" process.

 

[CommShrek]

I'm wondering if it's illegal to use a commercial radio on ham frequencies? I've been using my personal 32 ch. Kenwood TK-270 for both ham and fire/ems. Since it's illegal to use ham on commercial channels wouldn't the law be the same in reverse?

Welcome to the club. My Motorola X9000 Syntor 100W mobile in the truck and my Relm RPV599APlus walkie both do double duty. Once again, I think this is very common in public safety. I have seen it at numerous departments. Legal or not, this is the way it's done. It makes sense too. If you're licensed for both, what's the problem?

 

[N_Jay]

I'm wondering if it's illegal to use a commercial radio on ham frequencies? I've been using my personal 32 ch. Kenwood TK-270 for both ham and fire/ems. Since it's illegal to use ham on commercial channels wouldn't the law be the same in reverse?

Welcome to the club. My Motorola X9000 Syntor 100W mobile in the truck and my Relm RPV599APlus walkie both do double duty. Once again, I think this is very common in public safety. I have seen it at numerous departments. Legal or not, this is the way it's done. It makes sense too. If you're licensed for both, what's the problem?

Twobravo, are you saying that you believe it is illegal to use commercial equipment on amature frequencies (assuming you are a licensed ham)? :roll: :roll:

 

[colheli]

I'm wondering if it's illegal to use a commercial radio on ham frequencies? I've been using my personal 32 ch. Kenwood TK-270 for both ham and fire/ems. Since it's illegal to use ham on commercial channels wouldn't the law be the same in reverse?

Welcome to the club. My Motorola X9000 Syntor 100W mobile in the truck and my Relm RPV599APlus walkie both do double duty. Once again, I think this is very common in public safety. I have seen it at numerous departments. Legal or not, this is the way it's done. It makes sense too. If you're licensed for both, what's the problem?

Twobravo, are you saying that you believe it is illegal to use commercial equipment on amature frequencies (assuming you are a licensed ham)? :roll: :roll:

I think what he is saying is: since it is illegal to use ham stuff on commercial freqs., then it should be illegal to use commercial stuff on ham bands. A kind of "what's good for the goose, is good for the gander" type argument. I don't know for certain, but I would guess that the reason that you are not supposed to use ham equipment on the commercial bands is due to the Type Acceptance specifications that commercial equipment goes through. Ham rigs are not held to Type Acceptance standards, nor should they be. Not requiring TA on ham equipment encourages people to tinker with the hobby. A good thing, in my eyes. However, if anyone could use any kind of transmitter that they wanted, up in the commercial bands, then the whole licensing scheme would go right out of the window. Why try to sell a license to someone for 153.XXX, when the guy with the home built ham rig, on 152.XXX is splattering all over the 153.XXX freq.? Commercial equipment, theoretically, would not cause this kind of problem, as it's transmitter specs. are more tightly controlled, through the Type Acceptance of the design of the radio.

 

[N_Jay]

That is the whole point.

Commercial/Public Safety (Part 90) equipment is type accepted/type approved for the specific requirements of those bands.

Amateur equipment is not.

Amateur radios do not have to be type accepted, as the operator licensing process is SUPPOSED To assure that a licensed amateur is knowledgeable enough to know what is legal and what is not within the bands he is licensed for, and to know the limits of those bands.

Using amateur equipment on commercial bands is no more legal than using home built equipment.

An amateur operator who does not understand this (ignore is one thing, but UNDERSTAND) should not have received a license. (IMHO)


So, just to be clear:

You can use anything you darn well like on the amatuer bands as long as you are licensed and follow the regulations. This includes, broadcast, commercial, SW, and even labratory, experimental, and home built!

You may ONLY use equipment certified to comply with PART 90 on Commercial/Public Safety frequencies.

 

[n5bew1]

Commercial two ways are held to tougher standards than hammy radios so you can use any commercial radio anywhere on the ham bands

Ken KC5OU

 

[WX5JCH]

That's what I thought, thanks

Jim
KA5UFO

 

[CommShrek]

Commercial two ways are held to tougher standards than hammy radios so you can use any commercial radio anywhere on the ham bands

Ken KC5OU

Is there not limitations though? For example, I don't think I'm supposed to be using my 100W VHF mobile to talk to folks on the 2M band, right? Is there not some sort of 25 watt maximum or something for 2M?

 

[CommShrek]

Twobravo, are you saying that you believe it is illegal to use commercial equipment on amature frequencies (assuming you are a licensed ham)? :roll: :roll:

No, I'm saying that "type acceptance" bologna asside...it's sort of crappy for the powers that be to say ham rigs can't be used on the commercial bands, but yet say that commerical rigs can be used on the ham bands. Or, maybe I'm wrong on that. I don't know. <--Don't hear many people say that on here.

It just seems like a lot of red tape to slap on folks who are in public safety but yet talk to folks on the ham radio, and visa versa. IE, Emergency Management person who is responsible for severe weather events and also needs to talk to the people in the field. Something along those lines. It makes sense for the Emergency Management person to have say, a dual band amateur rig in his vehicle that he can use to communicate with everyone..both hams, and public safety.

I haven't seen any dual band public safety radio's in use by law enforcement, etc...but I have seen about a dozen or so dual band ham rigs used in police cars to TX and RX on both ham and public safety freqs.

I hope this makes sense.