2 way Guru?

[N_Jay]

Commercial two ways are held to tougher standards than hammy radios so you can use any commercial radio anywhere on the ham bands

Ken KC5OU

Is there not limitations though? For example, I don't think I'm supposed to be using my 100W VHF mobile to talk to folks on the 2M band, right? Is there not some sort of 25 watt maximum or something for 2M?

OK, now don't take this as a flame, but;
If you are a licensed ham, you are SUPOSED to know the rules under which you operate.

You question shows that you don't.

I would take the time to relearn the TOPICS covered on the test for the class license you have.
(the TOPICS, not just the sample test questions!)

Now, I know you are going to get insulted, but try to think of it as telling an officer that you did not know the meaning of a particular road sign, just because it was not on teh version of driving test you took.

The tests checks a sample of the knowlege to try to find out of your learned the material. No test can be all inclusive.

 

[N_Jay]

No, I'm saying that "type acceptance" bologna asside...it's sort of crappy for the powers that be to say ham rigs can't be used on the commercial bands, but yet say that commerical rigs can be used on the ham bands. Or, maybe I'm wrong on that. I don't know. <--Don't hear many people say that on here.

TYPE ACCEPTANCE is the issue! Yes you are right, if you put the RULES ASSIDE, then the RULES don't matter. :roll:

They don't say ham gear can't be used on the commercial bands, all they say if it is to be used on the commercial bands it must be certified to pass the rules. That is what type acceptance is.

AMATUER RADIO is created to allow experimentation. ANY TYPE OF EQUIPMENT IS ALLOWED, as long as the SUPPOSEDLY TRAINED AND KNOWLEGABLE OPPERATOR insures the transmission are within the regulations.

COMMERCIAL/PUBLIC SAFETY is designed for a particular purpose. The EQUIPMENT IS CERTIFIED for use by an UNTRAINED OPPERATOR, and must meet all regulation for the BAND independant of the users settings.

Lots of people say they are wrong, My expression is "I learn Something new every day"

It just seems like a lot of red tape to slap on folks who are in public safety but yet talk to folks on the ham radio, and visa versa. IE, Emergency Management person who is responsible for severe weather events and also needs to talk to the people in the field. Something along those lines. It makes sense for the Emergency Management person to have say, a dual band amateur rig in his vehicle that he can use to communicate with everyone..both hams, and public safety.

Once you understand the VERY LARGE difference between the Amatuer and commercial services, then all this red tape should make sense to you.

Maybe an analogy will hep.

Think of Amature radio as driving around on your private ranch, and Commercial/Public Safety radio as driving on the public roads.

You can build your own car to drive on your ranch, or you can buy a street legal car. It is your choice.

When you pull out onto the raod, the car has to be street legal (Type Accepted)

If you want to drive your ranch truck into town, you keep it licensed and up to code.

I hope this makes sense. :wink:

I haven't seen any dual band public safety radio's in use by law enforcement, etc...but I have seen about a dozen or so dual band ham rigs used in police cars to TX and RX on both ham and public safety freqs.

There have been a few dual band commercial radios.
Unfourtunatly they have failed in the market.
Every time this discussion comes up on the professional discussions forum, we have just about as long a conversation on why they failed to become popular.

It ususlly ends with someone saying "Well if you think it is such a great idea, start a company and build them!" :wink:

 

[CommShrek]

Commercial two ways are held to tougher standards than hammy radios so you can use any commercial radio anywhere on the ham bands

Ken KC5OU

Is there not limitations though? For example, I don't think I'm supposed to be using my 100W VHF mobile to talk to folks on the 2M band, right? Is there not some sort of 25 watt maximum or something for 2M?

OK, now don't take this as a flame, but;
If you are a licensed ham, you are SUPOSED to know the rules under which you operate.

You question shows that you don't.

I would take the time to relearn the TOPICS covered on the test for the class license you have.
(the TOPICS, not just the sample test questions!)

Now, I know you are going to get insulted, but try to think of it as telling an officer that you did not know the meaning of a particular road sign, just because it was not on teh version of driving test you took.

The tests checks a sample of the knowlege to try to find out of your learned the material. No test can be all inclusive.

I am not insulted at all. I am not a HAM either.

 

[jhooten]

Twobravo

"Is there not limitations though? For example, I don't think I'm supposed to be using my 100W VHF mobile to talk to folks on the 2M band, right? Is there not some sort of 25 watt maximum or something for 2M?

Yet another example of your total lack of knowledege of the Amateur Service Rules. Do you have a copy of Part 97? Particularly 97.313. In case not you can get it here:
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_00/47cfr97_00.html

In reference to output power:

(a) An amateur station must use the minimum transmitter power necessary to carry out the desired communications.
(b) No station may transmit with a transmitter power exceeding 1.5 kW PEP.

So you could, technically, use 1500 watts in to the 2 meter repeater, but you would not make any friends doing so and you might run afoul of (a) doing so.

Adding:
I was writing this while you were posting the one above that says you are not a ham. So that would explain your lack of knowledge. Perhaps you should research before you make such claims.

 

[CommShrek]

TYPE ACCEPTANCE is the issue! Yes you are right, if you put the RULES ASSIDE, then the RULES don't matter. :roll:

They don't say ham gear can't be used on the commercial bands, all they say if it is to be used on the commercial bands it must be certified to pass the rules. That is what type acceptance is.

It just seems like a lot of red tape to slap on folks who are in public safety but yet talk to folks on the ham radio, and visa versa. IE, Emergency Management person who is responsible for severe weather events and also needs to talk to the people in the field. Something along those lines. It makes sense for the Emergency Management person to have say, a dual band amateur rig in his vehicle that he can use to communicate with everyone..both hams, and public safety.

Once you understand the VERY LARGE difference between the Amatuer and commercial services, then all this red tape should make sense to you.

Maybe an analogy will hep.

Think of Amature radio as driving around on your private ranch, and Commercial/Public Safety radio as driving on the public roads.

You can build your own car to drive on your ranch, or you can buy a street legal car. It is your choice.

When you pull out onto the raod, the car has to be street legal (Type Accepted)

If you want to drive your ranch truck into town, you keep it licensed and up to code.

I hope this makes sense. :wink:

So back to what I was saying about Emergency Management folks to include police, fire, ems, etc. that need to talk to folks on the amateur bands. I don't want to tinker with radio's, other than programming them or setting up their functions. How does one in public safety communicate with the folks on 2M without getting a Tech ticket? As far as I can tell, a person can't. However, the need is still there. I am just looking for answers, and thoughts from the folks on here. This site is a great resource.

 

[N_Jay]

I am not insulted at all. I am not a HAM either.

You could have said so when asked.:wink:

Maybe you need to read up a bit on Amatuer radio and commercial radio before making assumptions as to what its rules are, or worse yet, what should be. :roll:

 

[N_Jay]

So back to what I was saying about Emergency Management folks to include police, fire, ems, etc. that need to talk to folks on the amateur bands. I don't want to tinker with radio's, other than programming them or setting up their functions. How does one in public safety communicate with the folks on 2M without getting a Tech ticket? As far as I can tell, a person can't. However, the need is still there. I am just looking for answers, and thoughts from the folks on here. This site is a great resource.

1) You don't
or
2) You sit next to the VOLUNTEER amatuer radio operator who does have the apropriate license (and assumed knowlege)

 

[nd5y]

How does one in public safety communicate with the folks on 2M without getting a Tech ticket?

You can't. Only licensed hams are allowed to communicate with other
licensed hams. If public safety needs to communicate with hams, they
should organize a RACES or ARES group and use their own ham
volunteers.

2, 3 and 4 below deal with special cases where the FCC can authorize
non-amateur stations to communicate with hams on the ham bands,
or cross-band communications.

Sec. 97.111 Authorized transmissions.
(a) An amateur station may transmit the following types of two-way
communications:
(1) Transmissions necessary to exchange messages with other stations
in the amateur service, except those in any country whose administration
has given notice that it objects to such communications. The FCC will
issue public notices of current arrangements for international
communications;
(2) Transmissions necessary to exchange messages with a station in
another FCC-regulated service while providing emergency communications;
(3) Transmissions necessary to exchange messages with a United
States government station, necessary to providing communications in
RACES; and
(4) Transmissions necessary to exchange messages with a station in a
service not regulated by the FCC, but authorized by the FCC to
communicate with amateur stations. An amateur station may exchange
messages with a participating United States military station during an
Armed Forces Day Communications Test.


Tom

 

[WX5JCH]

I don't see anywere in Part 97 that covers usage of commercial equipment on ham frequencies. Sorry, and I don't take it as a flame, just asking for information, not all of us have photographic memory

 

[WX5JCH]

Volunteer Hams???

No such thing where I live. I do EM and Hazmat, and work the ham radio repeater here in my county, mostly to talk to Norman, and the out of town spotters that come in during storm season. We have a club license that I use for that, KE5AZY, but other than that you couldn't get a local ham to get involved it you wanted one. This is a rural area and we don't get much community invovlement. I wouldn't use generalities because they don't apply to all of us here in Oklahoma.

 

[N_Jay]

I don't see anywere in Part 97 that covers usage of commercial equipment on ham frequencies. Sorry, and I don't take it as a flame, just asking for information, not all of us have photographic memory

One more time. :wink:

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH USING COMMERCIAL EQUIPMENT ON THE AMATUER BANDS,

BY A LICENSED AMATUER OPPERATOR,

OF TEH APPROPRIATE CLASS,

FOLLOWING THE RULES FOR THE AMATUER SERVICE,

AND THAT BAND.

He can use ANYTHING HE WANTS, that meets the rules.

 

[N_Jay]

Volunteer Hams???

. . . . I wouldn't use generalities because they don't apply to all of us here in Oklahoma.

I was refering more to the RULES limiting the use of Amatuer radio for the regular functions of employment,

And the RULES regarding the compensation of an AMATUER radio opperator (Hence the name) with regard to their use of the Amatuer radio bands.

 

[nd5y]

I don't see anywere in Part 97 that covers usage of commercial equipment on ham frequencies. Sorry, and I don't take it as a flame, just asking for information, not all of us have photographic memory

Thats because there isn't anything in Part 97 about using commercial
radios. The only thing part 97 says is that manufacturers of
external RF amplifiers have to meet requirements in Part 2.815.

Other commercially manufactured ham radio equipment is
classified as Part 15 RF devices. There is nothing about that in Part 97 either.

As stated before, a licensed amateur can buy, build and operate
nearly anything.

Tom

 

[WX5JCH]

Cool thanks!

 

[CommShrek]

How does one in public safety communicate with the folks on 2M without getting a Tech ticket?

You can't. Only licensed hams are allowed to communicate with other
licensed hams. If public safety needs to communicate with hams, they
should organize a RACES or ARES group and use their own ham
volunteers.

2, 3 and 4 below deal with special cases where the FCC can authorize
non-amateur stations to communicate with hams on the ham bands,
or cross-band communications.

Sec. 97.111 Authorized transmissions.
(a) An amateur station may transmit the following types of two-way
communications:

(2) Transmissions necessary to exchange messages with a station in
another FCC-regulated service while providing emergency communications;



Tom

Let's look at #2 up there. HAM spotter watching storms says something garbled about a tornado. Emergency Management director for the town the spotter is in hears this and wants to confirm with the HAM what he thought he heard. Is that not emergency communications? I mean, we're not out here at a bicycle race or talking about geek crap on the radio. I'm talking about people monitoring a severe weather event.

We're talking about a possible tornado on the ground, with lives and property in danger. I would think that would fit the criteria of "emergency communications".

It would be great to hear thoughts on this.

 

[CommShrek]

Volunteer Hams???

No such thing where I live. I do EM and Hazmat, and work the ham radio repeater here in my county, mostly to talk to Norman, and the out of town spotters that come in during storm season. We have a club license that I use for that, KE5AZY, but other than that you couldn't get a local ham to get involved it you wanted one. This is a rural area and we don't get much community invovlement. I wouldn't use generalities because they don't apply to all of us here in Oklahoma.

So are you saying that you, personally don't have a HAM ticket? Also, if you can't get a local ham involved, does that mean there is no "control operator" present when you are transmitting? :shock:

 

[CommShrek]

Twobravo

"Is there not limitations though? For example, I don't think I'm supposed to be using my 100W VHF mobile to talk to folks on the 2M band, right? Is there not some sort of 25 watt maximum or something for 2M?

Yet another example of your total lack of knowledege of the Amateur Service Rules. Do you have a copy of Part 97? Particularly 97.313. In case not you can get it here:
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_00/47cfr97_00.html

In reference to output power:

(a) An amateur station must use the minimum transmitter power necessary to carry out the desired communications.
(b) No station may transmit with a transmitter power exceeding 1.5 kW PEP.

So you could, technically, use 1500 watts in to the 2 meter repeater, but you would not make any friends doing so and you might run afoul of (a) doing so.

Adding:
I was writing this while you were posting the one above that says you are not a ham. So that would explain your lack of knowledge. Perhaps you should research before you make such claims.

OK, Capt. Sarcasm. No I don't have a copy of Part 97, subsection C, paragrpah F, of the FCC rules of engagement addressing confrontations with others in public forums. Why would I have that laying around?

Also, if everyone here would research things before posting, we could cut down on 70% of all of the message traffic. We also wouldn't have much to talk about with each other.

Notice the smiley's up there oh guru of radio wisdom. Take pity on infidels like me.

 

[K5MAR]

Volunteer Hams???

No such thing where I live. I do EM and Hazmat, and work the ham radio repeater here in my county, mostly to talk to Norman, and the out of town spotters that come in during storm season. We have a club license that I use for that, KE5AZY, but other than that you couldn't get a local ham to get involved it you wanted one. This is a rural area and we don't get much community invovlement. I wouldn't use generalities because they don't apply to all of us here in Oklahoma.

So are you saying that you, personally don't have a HAM ticket? Also, if you can't get a local ham involved, does that mean there is no "control operator" present when you are transmitting? :shock:

2B, notice Skywatch's sig line shows his amateur radio callsign - KA5UFO.

As easy as it is to get a Technician-class amateur radio license, I would hope that emergency management officials would urge their members to get licensed. Another resource is always good. Probably a third or more of our local emergency management members are licensed, and the EM actively seeks amateur assistance.

As far as your question (another post) regarding emergency situations, I can't see that the scenario you outline would cause the FCC to get upset. At most, a polite letter suggesting they get some people properly licensed. If these "emergencies" continued to happen, then it might be different, if you catch my drift.

73!
Mark Schneider - K5MAR
Asst. Emergency Coordinator,
Payne County Amateur Radio Emergency Service

Government/Chapter Liaison,
Payne-Noble County Chapter,
American Red Cross

---------------------------------
In memory of Pixel, my cat, my friend.
March 7, 1987 - March 9, 2005
Requiescat In Pace

 

[crayon]

As easy as it is to get a Technician-class amateur radio license, I would hope that emergency management officials would urge their members to get licensed.

Agreed. If you know some electronic theory and some RF theory .. and brush up on the regs, it is a simple test to bust out to get a ticket.

 

[nd5y]

Let's look at #2 up there. HAM spotter watching storms says something garbled about a tornado. Emergency Management director for the town the spotter is in hears this and wants to confirm with the HAM what he thought he heard. Is that not emergency communications? I mean, we're not out here at a bicycle race or talking about geek crap on the radio. I'm talking about people monitoring a severe weather event.

We're talking about a possible tornado on the ground, with lives and property in danger. I would think that would fit the criteria of "emergency communications".

It would be great to hear thoughts on this.

I would say no, "Excuse me, but is there a tornado headed towards my town?"
type communication by an unlicensed operator would not be
allowed any more than a ham doing the same thing on a public safety
frequency. You should ask the FCC and see what they have to say about it.
Send an email to fccinfo@fcc.gov They are usually pretty good about
answering question although it might take a while.

Tom