2020 Arizona Wildfires

[milcom_chaser]

Sawtooth Fire
Output PL on Ch.11 would be nice to know as well as other Repeaters from the Forest Net

Ch.01 168.0500 S 131.8 - Tac 1
Ch.02 168.2000 S 131.8 - Tac 2
Ch.03 168.6000 S 131.8 - Tac 3
Ch.04 166.7250 S 131.8 - Tac 4
Ch.05 166.7750 S 131.8 - Tac 5
Ch.06 168.2500 S 131.8 - Tac 6
Ch.07 170.4250 R 131.8 - Command 7 Iron Mtn
Ch.08 170.4125 R 131.8 - Command 8 Malapais
Ch.09 170.6875 R 131.8 - Command 9 Bronco Butte
Ch.10 Blank / Future if needed
Ch.11 171.5000 R ???.? - Tonto NF -Forest Net-Temp Rptr on Iron Mtn
Ch.12 VMED 28
Ch.13 VFIRE 21
Ch.14 167.9500 S - Air/Ground Primary
Ch.15 168.4000 S - Air/Ground Secondary
Ch.15 168.6250 S 110.9 - Air Guard

A/A 1 120.0250
A/A 2 124.5250
Deck 163.1000

...

 

[DanRollman]

Has anyone aggregated a list of frequencies in use on the Bighorn Fire? I am not within listening distance, but curiosity has me.

 

[milcom_chaser]

Has anyone aggregated a list of frequencies in use on the Bighorn Fire? I am not within listening distance, but curiosity has me.

Earlier on in the timeline of this thread someone posted a few frequencies. However, since they changed the incident type. There may be more.

 

[ecps92]

Bighorn 2020

127.7750 A/A Fixed Wing
119.6750 A/A Rotar

166.6125 A/G Primary
171.5500 A/G Secondary

Ch.01 Tac 1 168.0500 S 110.9
Ch.02 Tac 2 168.2000 S 110.9
Ch.03 Tac 3 168.6000 S 110.9
Ch.04 Tac 4 166.7250 S 110.9
Ch.05 Tac 5 166.7750 S 110.9
Ch.06 Tac 6 168.2500 S 110.9
Ch.07 VFire 21 154.2800 S 100.0
Ch.08 Command 8 170.9750 R 110.9 at Pusch Peak
Ch.09 Command 9 170.0125 R 110.9 at Sabino Mtn
Ch.10 Tucson Disp via 171.6375 R Unk output tone Mt Lemmon
Ch.11 Tucson Disp via 171.6375 R Unk output tone Mt Hopkins
Ch.12 A/G Pri 166.6125 S CSQ
Ch.13 A/G Sec 171.5500 S CSQ
Ch.14 VMed 28 155.3400 S 156.7 Medical Pri
Ch.15 VMed 29 155.3475 S 156.7 Medical Sec
Ch.16 Air Guard 168.6250 S 110.9 Air Guard

Has anyone aggregated a list of frequencies in use on the Bighorn Fire? I am not within listening distance, but curiosity has me.

 

[milcom_chaser]

Bighorn 2020

127.7750 A/A Fixed Wing
119.6750 A/A Rotar

166.6125 A/G Primary
171.5500 A/G Secondary

Ch.01 Tac 1 168.0500 S 110.9
Ch.02 Tac 2 168.2000 S 110.9
Ch.03 Tac 3 168.6000 S 110.9
Ch.04 Tac 4 166.7250 S 110.9
Ch.05 Tac 5 166.7750 S 110.9
Ch.06 Tac 6 168.2500 S 110.9
Ch.07 VFire 21 154.2800 S 100.0
Ch.08 Command 8 170.9750 R 110.9 at Pusch Peak
Ch.09 Command 9 170.0125 R 110.9 at Sabino Mtn
Ch.10 Tucson Disp via 171.6375 R Unk output tone Mt Lemmon
Ch.11 Tucson Disp via 171.6375 R Unk output tone Mt Hopkins
Ch.12 A/G Pri 166.6125 S CSQ
Ch.13 A/G Sec 171.5500 S CSQ
Ch.14 VMed 28 155.3400 S 156.7 Medical Pri
Ch.15 VMed 29 155.3475 S 156.7 Medical Sec
Ch.16 Air Guard 168.6250 S 110.9 Air Guard

Nice catch with the ICS-205. We've had good luck monitoring via the UHF links between the repeaters for previous fires.

 

[ecps92]

How about posting/updating the links and tones

As a tourist the Down links would be better to listen to, as you hear what Dispatch hears

Only recently have UHF Links come-back to New England for Federal Agencies
years ago the FBI used then in the analog days

Now we are finding USFS is finally implementing them in VT/NH and NY to link the VHF Forest Nets

Nice catch with the ICS-205. We've had good luck monitoring via the UHF links between the repeaters for previous fires.

 

[Paysonscanner]

As a tourist the Down links would be better to listen to, as you hear what Dispatch hears

If you can hear the down link from a repeater, you should be able to pick up the VHF from that repeater. The standard process now is to multicast the command net repeaters, so if you can hear one repeater you are hearing them all and both sides of the conversation of course. The need for multiple repeaters is driven by topography and the area a repeater can cover. Sometimes the communications plan will specify an area each repeater covers, so Command 8 may show Divisions Alpha, Charlie and Foxtrot and Command 9 for Divisions Echo, Kilo and Zulu. For the listener it doesn't matter if they only hear one repeater, they are still going to hear command traffic from all divisions.

Just to be clear, the forest or zone dispatcher does not hear command traffic or hooks up to the command net of any fire, the communications unit of the specific incident does. They are not really called "dispatch," they are usually called "communications" or "comm." On the Bighorn Fire you would hear something like, "Bighorn Comm, Division Alpha." At the start of initial attack all traffic between the agency's dispatcher and the fire (incident command post) will be with the "IC" (incident commander). If the IC can get someone in right away who is operations section chief qualified, the radio traffic on the fire will then be mostly from "ops." However, the dispatcher only communicates with the IC. If the incident keeps expanding and depending on its rate of spread a formal, local Type III team will be ordered. If they don't get fire contained then it goes national and a Type I or Type II team is ordered, depending on the number of resources needed and the complexity of the incident. When a Type I, II or III teams takes over then an incident radio operator position is staffed (one or more per shift) and is called "comm." This is not only for fires, but all incident types.

This is the procedure I got used to in California. Then I moved back to Arizona and the term "Command" gets attached to an incident. I first heard this on the various fire departments in the Phoenix area. This on structure fires. You can't tell if the I.C., Operations Section Chief or an ICP radio operator is answering. It works for them, I just have to have to get used to it now.

 

[milcom_chaser]

If you can hear the down link from a repeater, you should be able to pick up the VHF from that repeater. The standard process now is to multicast the command net repeaters, so if you can hear one repeater you are hearing them all and both sides of the conversation of course. The need for multiple repeaters is driven by topography and the area a repeater can cover. Sometimes the communications plan will specify an area each repeater covers, so Command 8 may show Divisions Alpha, Charlie and Foxtrot and Command 9 for Divisions Echo, Kilo and Zulu. For the listener it doesn't matter if they only hear one repeater, they are still going to hear command traffic from all divisions.

Just to be clear, the forest or zone dispatcher does not hear command traffic or hooks up to the command net of any fire, the communications unit of the specific incident does. They are not really called "dispatch," they are usually called "communications" or "comm." On the Bighorn Fire you would hear something like, "Bighorn Comm, Division Alpha." At the start of initial attack all traffic between the agency's dispatcher and the fire (incident command post) will be with the "IC" (incident commander). If the IC can get someone in right away who is operations section chief qualified, the radio traffic on the fire will then be mostly from "ops." However, the dispatcher only communicates with the IC. If the incident keeps expanding and depending on its rate of spread a formal, local Type III team will be ordered. If they don't get fire contained then it goes national and a Type I or Type II team is ordered, depending on the number of resources needed and the complexity of the incident. When a Type I, II or III teams takes over then an incident radio operator position is staffed (one or more per shift) and is called "comm." This is not only for fires, but all incident types.

This is the procedure I got used to in California. Then I moved back to Arizona and the term "Command" gets attached to an incident. I first heard this on the various fire departments in the Phoenix area. This on structure fires. You can't tell if the I.C., Operations Section Chief or an ICP radio operator is answering. It works for them, I just have to have to get used to it now.

Appreciate you chiming in with your experiences. With the previous Mt. Lemon and Mt. Graham fire, some of the VHF repeaters in the network were blocked do to topography, in those instances the UHF link made a huge difference in the amount of traffic we could monitor. On the mount Lemon fire, they linked an aircraft radio so the IC could have direct coms with rotor activity on the backside of the mountain.

 

[ecps92]

Not always, sometimes the links provider better reception. YMMV tho

If you can hear the down link from a repeater, you should be able to pick up the VHF from that repeater. The standard process now is to multicast the command net repeaters, so if you can hear one repeater you are hearing them all and both sides of the conversation of course. The need for multiple repeaters is driven by topography and the area a repeater can cover. Sometimes the communications plan will specify an area each repeater covers, so Command 8 may show Divisions Alpha, Charlie and Foxtrot and Command 9 for Divisions Echo, Kilo and Zulu. For the listener it doesn't matter if they only hear one repeater, they are still going to hear command traffic from all divisions.

Just to be clear, the forest or zone dispatcher does not hear command traffic or hooks up to the command net of any fire, the communications unit of the specific incident does. They are not really called "dispatch," they are usually called "communications" or "comm." On the Bighorn Fire you would hear something like, "Bighorn Comm, Division Alpha." At the start of initial attack all traffic between the agency's dispatcher and the fire (incident command post) will be with the "IC" (incident commander). If the IC can get someone in right away who is operations section chief qualified, the radio traffic on the fire will then be mostly from "ops." However, the dispatcher only communicates with the IC. If the incident keeps expanding and depending on its rate of spread a formal, local Type III team will be ordered. If they don't get fire contained then it goes national and a Type I or Type II team is ordered, depending on the number of resources needed and the complexity of the incident. When a Type I, II or III teams takes over then an incident radio operator position is staffed (one or more per shift) and is called "comm." This is not only for fires, but all incident types.

This is the procedure I got used to in California. Then I moved back to Arizona and the term "Command" gets attached to an incident. I first heard this on the various fire departments in the Phoenix area. This on structure fires. You can't tell if the I.C., Operations Section Chief or an ICP radio operator is answering. It works for them, I just have to have to get used to it now.

 

[Paysonscanner]

Appreciate you chiming in with your experiences. With the previous Mt. Lemon and Mt. Graham fire, some of the VHF repeaters in the network were blocked do to topography, in those instances the UHF link made a huge difference in the amount of traffic we could monitor. On the mount Lemon fire, they linked an aircraft radio so the IC could have direct coms with rotor activity on the backside of the mountain.

Quite often the UHF linking for AM frequencies is done so the helicopter coordinator or heliport take off and landing coordinator can keep in touch with the helos over the fire. On large fires the IC rarely uses the radio. It is usually, at the highest level, the operations branch director or operations section chief.

If repeaters are UHF linked into one multicast net it should not matter which repeater you can hear. Sometimes a command net wont deploy UHF links to establish a multicast net. This if the NIFC cache is in short supply, they don't have time to get them all in place or the repeaters are not line of sight with each other. As ecps92 stated, the situation can vary. There are also situations where a multicast command net is set up and you are not in a location where the hub UHF receiver is down linked to the incident command post. There are a lot of variables and that is why it is fun to be in range of the incident comms.

Daddy and my late Hubby were great to have along as they both had enough fire experience to interpret the traffic, procedures and understood the aviation ops well enough to understand the air "show." "Show" is fire lingo for the mode or type of operation being used. You might hear on an initial attack that "this is going to be a jumper show." You might hear "this is a walk in show." Daddy calls it "green speak" and tells me I should post the list he has explaining it all. The lingo seems funny to outsiders.

People should never travel to the area of an incident and become something the incident has to deal with, they have enough to do already. It is better to be several miles from one. You aren't in the way, you get the big picture, often the radio reception is better and watching all the aircraft rotating above is better from this vantage point.

EDIT Daddy worked a number of fires in the communications unit. He really has "dirt level" experience with this stuff. I have ICS experience, but it is from the hospital perspective. We often had countywide drills for wildland fires, pandemics, earthquakes, floods and mass causalities. We had to take the same core ICS courses as firefighters. We had to understand the difference, as an example, between a check in recorder and a resource unit leader. My hospital dealt with the less significant fire related injuries like single bone fractures, sprains, lacerations and small burns. Everything else passed over us in a helicopter bound for Level I Trauma Centers.

 

[Paysonscanner]

The reason for the multicast repeater networks is so that all division supervisors are tied in with each other, the ops chief, the IC and all the other overhead positions and all at the same time. Prior to the ability to link the multiple command repeaters IC's and ops chiefs had to get up in a helo to talk with everyone. Those were the days when command net could be simplex, even on pretty large fires, but after the days of the only frequency used on fires was the forest, park or BLM district net in simplex. The PROM, EPROM radios changed this all. Radios had very few frequencies in them when they were tuned "by a rock" as Daddy says.

 

[Paysonscanner]

OK, here are some lists that explain terms you might hear on a fire.

First, the official, national list of terminology. This list is exhaustive, not only because it's complete and voluminous, but you also get exhausted looking through it!

Official Wildland Fire Terminology

Wikipedia version that includes just a little of the slang.

Wikipedia Wildland Fire Terms

I can't find a more realistic, ground level (grunt) list of terms. One that is kinda funny, but has the most common terms like "face to face" and what bump really means, which is to move anything. "Hey, bump the lunches up to us" in situations where they are back at the "crew buggy" and the crew is 3 miles and 2,000 feet above their vehicles.

Finally, here is one version of "Greenspeak" from about the early 1980's. The fire terminology is a small part of this.

 

[Paysonscanner]

Our scanners are doing cartwheels here in Payson! The Bush Fire has great coverage from Mt. Ord. We haven't figured out all the frequencies yet. We can't hear tactical traffic from here. Freqs will be changing today, maybe for night shift as a Type II incident management team took over the fire this morning from a Type III team. Fire moved into some heavier fuels in the Four Peaks area. This is human caused. We heard a report that the fire is possibly 35,000 acres in size, based on infrared scanning. The 3-8" fuels are very dry all over the state. A couple more weeks until the monsoon usually arrives, but in the last several years it hasn't always been strong or on time.

Gila County SO quite busy!

 

[Paysonscanner]

Daddy says when the North Kaibab burns hot the rest of the region has a lot of potential for hard to control fires. Take a look at this picture from the Magnum Fire.

 

[Paysonscanner]

When I wrote that the Bush Fire was 35,000 acres earlier today I had forgotten where I saw that. I found my source a few minutes ago. It actually was 36,000 acres as of 2325 6-14-20.

 

[Paysonscanner]

The predicted fire danger for tomorrow. The fuel moisture of the 3"-8" fuels below that. "And hey, hey, let's be careful out there!"

 

[radioprescott]

TNF-1581: Bush 2020

Hearing tankers checking in with Bush Air Attack and Lead 61 on 125.825. Very spotty as the AC need to be above 5000 agl for me to hear them.

Anybody have other freqs yet?

 

[KD7JVRinAZ]

Been hearing air tankers on ADFFM referring to Bush fire on 122.925. Just heard them refer to the 188 and Saguaro lake.

 

[WIS262]

I heard Bush AirAttack on Command Net which was TNF Fire Net 2. He was talking to different divisions and fulfilling helicopter orders.

 

[cellphone]

133.875 is Rotor freq for Bush fire.