2nd alarm hard landing at DIA, as paged

[Warbirdhunter]

38 people total hurt, Fox 31 live shot from helicopter. Sounds like an aborted take off, plane came off the runway and went into the grass and the ditch running along runway. rumors of fire on plane after everyone got off.

 

[rdale]

Came across the national IPN alert as "737 Crashed with 105 persons on board, command reporting plane on fire." Close, but not quite right, it seems...

 

[firescannerbob]

Came across the national IPN alert as "737 Crashed with 105 persons on board, command reporting plane on fire." Close, but not quite right, it seems...

A matter of semantics. A plane doesn't have to fall from the sky to crash, and there was a fire... However, IPN's penchant for getting things wrong is well known and documented.

 

[KB9LMJ]

A matter of semantics. A plane doesn't have to fall from the sky to crash, and there was a fire... However, IPN's penchant for getting things wrong is well known and documented.

And the radio and MDT reports I was looking at had very limited info at first. As more info became available, the picture came more into focus.

 

[rdale]

A matter of semantics.

That's MUCH more than semantics... The first page said 737 with hard landing, mass casualty incident declared. Next said it crashed.

It ran off the side of the runway. BIG difference.

 

[Warbirdhunter]

Anyone know if anyone happen to get this on tape?

 

[KB9LMJ]

That's MUCH more than semantics... The first page said 737 with hard landing, mass casualty incident declared. Next said it crashed.

It ran off the side of the runway. BIG difference.

Again, the MDT reports we were getting on the dept said there was a crash and subsequent fire...as the radio reports started coming in and time progressed, the picture became more clear.

It was still quite confusing for quite sometime just how the fire started as they weren't sure, first off -where it was (it was called in at 34R and WB taxiway and ended up at 34R North of WC taxiway, which is quite aways way and there's an embankment next to the parallel taxiway to 34R.) and second off, if it was an approach, departure, or aborted takeoff...you know how incidents go in the first few mins, it's always a cluster.

And the MCI page was sent out about 15mins after the initial crash page

All I have to say if GREAT job by everyone that was on scene and glad that no one was killed or critically injured as the critical was later changed to fair condition.

 

[Warbirdhunter]

It sounds like the aircraft at one point may have been airborne, then slammed into the ground. According to this news story the landing gear where sheared off, landing gear on a 37 don't just snap off. There had to be some major force, or cross wind causing the aircraft to land sideways or something. Over all I would say there was some holiday magic going on on that flight.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D956TH1G0&show_article=1

 

[jimmnn]

That's MUCH more than semantics... The first page said 737 with hard landing, mass casualty incident declared. Next said it crashed.

It ran off the side of the runway. BIG difference.

Mr Dale, Might not want to second guess such a major incident from several states away, first due ARFF units reporting the intensity of fire in the plane soon after everyone had evacuated such that the baggage compartments overhead were melting onto the seats below.

That's a crash in my book any day and we are extremely luckily that everyone got out safely.

Jim<

 

[poltergeisty]

Stress and fatigue are not the only factors detrimental to pilots....

 

[rdale]

Mr Dale, Might not want to second guess such a major incident from several states away

Please read my posts again, I am not commenting on the incident, I'm commenting on the IPN pages.

 

[dirtfinder]

9News Live Stream this morning

http://www.9news.com/video/player_live.aspx

 

[jimmnn]

DenverPost.com
*BREAKING NEWS*

Authorities at Denver International Airport said today that the total number of people injured last night was 58, 20 higher than originally reported after an airport runway accident.

Two of those on board Continental flight 1404 are in critical condition this morning. Others received mostly bumps, bruises and broken bones as they evacuated the plane which had skidded off a runway at Denver International Airport on takeoff. The Boeing 737-500 ended up in a ravine and burst into flames, with the plane's entire right side engulfed.

Slideshow: http://www.9news.com/9slideshows/gallery.aspx?slideshowname=Continental1404

 

[Warbirdhunter]

Just for what it's worth, and the pictures I've seen from the plane from a guy I know who works out at DIA. If anyone out there needed a reason for the season, I think you just got 112 reasons. That flight crew and cabin crew had their hands full. My hat goes off to the flight crew, they had to of known things where about to go south. Not to mention start pulling fire handles on the engines, doing their best to keep the plane up right. The only bad thing I've heard is the slide in the back of the plane, did not reach the ground. There was an additional 6 foot drop from the end of the slide, witch would explain some of the broken bones. And to be that close to a fire station..wow.

Colorado's last Airline crash, anyone remember this one?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Airlines_Flight_1713

 

[n0doz]

Yup, DFD-DIA may be a country club most of the time, but those guys sure earned their keep last night. A superior effort in subfreezing conditions. The path of the plane just missed ARFF 4 by a few feet, too.
I was on-duty indoors last night but listened on the radio... some tense moments when they went inside the cabin to attack the fire.
A privilege to work around these guys.

 

[poltergeisty]

Why in the world! Did he/she choose 34????

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Denver_continental_runway_crash_199430-1.html

Pilot-in-the-loop oscillations?


Edit, Now I know why....


METAR amendment about 15 mins after the incident:

SPECI KDEN 210134Z 29024G32KT 10SM FEW040 SCT100 M04/M18 A2998 RMK AO2
PK WND 28036/0123

 

[rdale]

A) Pilots don't choose the runways

B) Because you take off into the wind, and the wind was coming out of the northwest (300 degrees) so it was as close as you get as a straight shot.

NOUS55 KBOU 210501 AAA
OAVBOU
NOTIFICATION REPORT...UPDATED
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE BOULDER CO
1001 PM MST SAT DEC 20 2008
TO: FORENSIC SERVICES MANAGER (W/OS52)
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE
C/O TELECOMMUNICATIONS GATEWAY
SILVER SPRING, MARYLAND 20910
INFO: NWS CENTRAL REGION HEADQUARTERS ATTN:RAM
NONE
ALPHA: PILOT.......UNKNOWN
ACFT TYPE...BOEING 737-500
REG NMBR....CONTINENTAL FLIGHT 1404
BRAVO: LOCATION........DENVER INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT, DENVER, CO
DATE............12/21/08
INCIDENT TIME...0120 UTC
CHARLIE: 112 ON BOARD. 0 FATALITIES. APPROXIMATELY 37 INJURIES.
AIRCRAFT WENT OFF THE RIGHT SIDE OF RUNWAY 34R DURING
ACCELERATION ON TAKEOFF. FIRE REPORTEDLY STARTED ON RIGHT
SIDE WING. PASSENGERS WERE IMMEDIATELY EVACUATED.
DELTA: DENVER INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT
METAR KDEN 210153Z 30018G28KT 10SM FEW040 SCT100 M05/M17 A3000 RMK AO2
PK WND 28036/0123 SLP202 T10501172
SPECI KDEN 210134Z 29024G32KT 10SM FEW040 SCT100 M04/M18 A2998 RMK AO2
PK WND 28036/0123
METAR KDEN 210053Z 28011KT 10SM FEW040 SCT100 M06/M16 A2997 RMK AO2 PK
WND 29027/0000 SLP202 T10561161
ECHO: KDEN 210139Z 2102/2206 29020G30KT P6SM FEW040 SCT100
FM210300 30014KT P6SM SCT070 BKN110
FM210500 16010KT P6SM SCT070 BKN120
FM211200 14008KT P6SM FEW070 SCT120
FM211800 12012KT P6SM SCT070 BKN140
FM220200 16010KT P6SM FEW080 SCT150
KDEN 202338Z 2100/2206 30016G24KT P6SM FEW040 SCT120 SCT220
FM210200 34014KT P6SM FEW030 SCT070
FM210600 16008KT P6SM SCT070 BKN110
FM211200 14008KT P6SM FEW070 SCT110
FM211800 12012KT P6SM SCT070 BKN140
FM220200 16010KT P6SM FEW080 SCT150

FOXTROT: WINDS ALOFT BASED ON DNR 210000Z SOUNDING
6000 FT WND 19501 KTS
7000 FT WND 25012 KTS
8000 FT WND 26011 KTS
9000 FT WND 27016 KTS
12000 FT WND 25522 KTS
13000 FT WND 25031 KTS
14000 FT WND 26533 KTS
16000 FT WND 27559 KTS
18000 FT WND 30077 KTS
20000 FT WND 30096 KTS
21000 FT WND 29603 KTS
25000 FT WND 29109 KTS
30000 FT WND 29605 KTS
GOLF:
WAUS45 KKCI 202231 AAA
WA5S
SLCS WA 202231 AMD
AIRMET SIERRA UPDT 6 FOR IFR AND MTN OBSCN VALID UNTIL 210300
.
AIRMET IFR...WY CO...UPDT
FROM 50NNE LAR TO 30N ALS TO 50ENE RSK TO DBL TO 30WNW LAR TO
50NNE LAR
CIG BLW 010/VIS BLW 3SM PCPN/BR. CONDS ENDG 00-03Z.
...NEW AIRMET...
.
AIRMET MTN OBSCN...ID MT WY NV UT CO...UPDT
FROM 40SSW FCA TO 50S LWT TO 20ENE SHR TO 20ESE CYS TO 30N CIM
TO 50S DVC TO 50N JNC TO 40WNW BVL TO BAM TO 60NNW FMG TO 40SE
LKV TO 50SE REO TO 30W DNJ TO 40E DNJ TO 40SSW FCA
MTNS OCNL OBSC BY CLDS/PCPN/BR. CONDS CONTG BYD 03Z THRU 09Z.
....
WAUS45 KKCI 202045
WA5T
SLCT WA 202045
AIRMET TANGO UPDT 5 FOR TURB VALID UNTIL 210300
.
AIRMET TURB...ID MT WY NV UT CO AZ NM
FROM 60SSW BIL TO BFF TO GLD TO 50W LBL TO 40ESE TBE TO INK TO
ELP TO 50S SSO TO 40NNW JNC TO 20S TWF TO 60SSW BIL
MOD TURB BLW FL180. CONDS CONTG BYD 03Z THRU 09Z.
.
AIRMET TURB...ID WY NV UT CO AZ NM OR CA AND CSTL WTRS
FROM 20NW DBS TO BFF TO GLD TO 50W LBL TO 30ESE TBE TO INK TO
ELP TO 50S TUS TO BZA TO 20S MZB TO 220SW MZB TO 140SSW SNS TO
BTY TO 20SE LKV TO 20NW DBS
MOD TURB BTN FL180 AND FL410. CONDS CONTG BYD 03Z THRU 09Z.

HOTEL: WEATHER BRIEFING/DOCUMENTATION BY UNKNOWN
PREPARED BY BARJENBRUCH, SENIOR FORECASTER, WFO BOULDER, CO
FORECASTER BOULDER CO

 

[poltergeisty]

Yeah, I just saw the METAR last night... From what I read yesterday, the wind was coming from the west. I thought in fact the plane was on runway 25..

Look at the peak wind..

http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

 

[KB9LMJ]

Please read my posts again, I am not commenting on the incident, I'm commenting on the IPN pages.

I understand that you're making a comment on the page that was sent. I sent that page. And, judging by what the Denver Fire Dept MDTs said at my engine company last night, and by the radio traffic I heard crews I personally know and have worked with, this was an air crash with a fire. I'm not sure you understand how confusing a small structure fire can be, let alone a 737 emergency on the runway. When the call came up on our vehicle computers, which was the first information I had at the time, it said "DIA-Aircraft Crash." In the note section, there was an entry that said aircraft down on the runway, and by time I turned the portable to the DIA channel, ARFF crews were in an aggressive firefight. Information at that time was sparse, and even the thread that we're typing in has the category wrong as it says it was a "hard landing." Simply put, no one had the true information as to what happened for quite some time into the incident, as operations were obviously focused on the task at hand. Those that were listening at home probably had an advantage over me as I had only the DIA fire channel to listen to at first and then I was able to get another portable to listen to ops when we got back in quarters. As the incident progressed, the city dispatch gave control over to the comm center dispatch at the airport and MDT information then dried up for city companies. Additionally, if you were to look at the IPN pages for the CO chapter, you will see several updates that begin to focus the picture as to what was going on, and even at that, it was still wrong! My suggestion is to have an understanding for the information that was available at the time to put those pages out. And yes, I agree with you, this probably doesn't qualify "technically" for the word "crash" to be attached to it, but that's all anyone thought given the information we had at the time. And yes, though it didn't happen this time, I've had IPN take a local page before and twist it by time it hit the national alert. So there's always that possibility too.

Here's the CO chapter pages last night: (In reverse order)
Denver | Aircraft Down | DIA DFD1 | DIA runway 34 | U/D: Continental 1404 from Denver to Houston w/112 souls on board, approx 36 transports, FAA now O/S | COL018
12/20/08
19:34
Denver | Aircraft Down | DIA DFD1 | DIA runway 34 | U/D: Plane overran runway on takeoff, wing caught fire, approx 24 pts at this time, situation U/C | COL018
12/20/08
19:06
Denver | Aircraft Down | DIA-800 | Denver International Airport | 737 landed with the wing on fire, initial reports of 15 pts, MCI response enroute. M/A: Arapahoe County M/A: Adams County | COL015
12/20/08
18:54
Denver | Aircraft Down | DIA DFD1 | DIA runway 34 | U/D: EMS triage area setup at ARFF station 4, city Hazmat/Decon, and Rescue teams O/S | COL018
12/20/08
18:53
Denver | Aircraft Down | DIA DFD1 | DIA runway 34 | 737 Crashed With 105 Persons On Board, Command Reporting Plane On Fire, Several Moves Ups In City | COL018

 

[rdale]

Note however that the page went national nearly 45 minutes after your first alert (1930 MST) so in my mind given the other pages sent maybe a conglomeration that included the overrun or landing info might have been a better choice. My thinking is that if it goes national, it's confirmed to be the best info available.

I appreciate you sending the pages, that's not the concern.