396T P25 decoding delay

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safetyobc

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I'll take that 1.07 version firmware from anyone who is willing to email me with it. No problems yet but my areas digital system is to come online next week or the week after at the latest and I would like to have the 1.07 just in case. I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks.

matt
 

brandonbv

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The only digital system I have in my area is the Kentucky State Police. I have noticed the same problem with my radio since the upgrade! I noticed I get more of the digital noise on the weaker trasmissions than the stronger ones even though it occurs on both. I have had my digital threshold tweaked with this system for a long time now so that has nothing to do with the noise...IT HAS TO BE THE FIRMWARE.

I hope Uniden is quick to respond to this.
 

B4U

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I also have the problem with the new firmware. I want to go back one version. Nasty noise.
 

robwilson

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For anyone that's interested, I have uploaded version 1.07 to the file section of the BCD396T Yahoo group. I could not attach it to this thread because it's too large (a zipped file apparently cannott be any larger than 97 kb). This file is approx. 770 kb.

Regards,
Rob
 

John_M

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I have the new firmware and I am listening to a Type II Smartzone system and I can't hear any noise with the digital transmissions. If so many people are reporting it there must be something going on.
 

ddanz

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I have downloaded the new firmware 1.08.07 and cannot reproduce the problem. 1.08.07 works exactly the same as earlier firmware, and I see no delay, nor any significant change in the noise that sometimes precedes or follows some digital transmissions.

I monitor both Motorola Type II Smartzone APCO P16 3600-baud control channel system with anolog and P25 Digital audio, and also a very complex with multiple Motorola APCO P25 9600-baud CQPSK systems with only P25 audio.

I have posted on other lists a procedure that greatly reduces the so-called motorboating noise. Since I've always run with this tuning procedure (on earlier firmware as well as the current) it's possible that a change in the firmware is more apparent to those who don't follow this fine tuning procedure.

<cross post>
There are some initially-confusing things about the P25 Decode Threshold
level. The manual gives very adequate instructions about how to use
the AUTO setting, I thought. But I'll provide some insight:

The level numbers are an index into a table of thresholds for decoding
the digital data. Higher numbers are more permissive (the thresholds
for decoding are wider) while smaller numbers tighten the threshold
ranges. The optimum range depends on how the technicians have set up
the system you are trying to receive.


DEFAULT
Means a Level (Index) setting of 8. Thresholds don't change. Must
likely you can do better.

MANUAL means you control it all -
Hold Func and press the scroll knob twice to get the screen.
Adjust the setting with the knob until you get the best result for
any given SYSTEM.
The radio will remember this setting for that System and use it
every time it has to decode digital audio.

AUTO means the radio attempts to fine tune the P25 audio transmission
thresholds during receive. You can generally see it doing this. During
the beta test, we convinced Uniden to implement a slight change to the
"Auto" functionality. Specifically, we noticed that it was starting
over at the default setting and then trying to correct it again at every
transmission; sometimes this meant it took a long time to settle in.
We went thru a couple of iterations, requiring at first - Set the
threshold with MANUAL and then AUTO would use that as a starting point.
This was cumbersome, and soon changed to the ability to control the
starting point while in AUTO mode by using FUNC-SCROLL while viewing the
decode screen. Whatever you set at this point will be remembered FOR
THIS SYSTEM as the starting point for the auto-tuning function for
subsequent trransmission ON THAT SYSTEM.

Incidentally, we did suggest the ultimate -- for the radio to
automagically remember this on its own, continually refining it and
picking a better starting point if it could. But the engineers thought
it would results in too many writes to the EEPROM, which has a generous
capability for making changes to the programming, but the limit would be
reached if every P25 audio transmission resulted in a write.

Now I can offer a slight refinement (courtesy of a very helpful Engineer
at Uniden): If you're having trouble with a P16 (Moto type 2) system
decoding digital P25 audio, slightly offtune the automatic setting.
Frequently the radio will auto tune to a setting that is halfway between
the values that you can set manually. For example, it might finally
settle to a low threshold of 1.41, but you can't set the starting point
to that, you can only make it 1.40 or 1.42. Well, the trick that helps
stop the motorboating is to pick the tighter threshold side. In the
example, instead of picking 1.40, pick 1.42 (that's a tighter
threshold). (Think of it as similar to setting the squelch tighter for
a conventional channel.) Even if you auto-tune to an even value, like
1.42, pick the next tighter value (1.44) to start at.

Works for me. Cuts out 80% of the motorboating that occurred prior to or
after a transmission. YMMV. You guys having trouble with motorboating
on the San Mateo system should definitely try this.

</cross post>
 

walter900

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ddanz,

Thanks... for your goood informative lengthly post.


BUT..... A band-aid fix and not a permenant solution.

If i paid $150.00 for my 396, i might settle for it, but sorry, not for a $550.00!!!!

UNIDEN>>>>> As a start...... Needs to Add tighter thresholds via next firmware!!!!!!!

THEN>>>>>>>The auto needs to be tweaked to work as auto, and NOT be left at the current state of "as close enough auto". The fix, if one comes out at all, doesn't need to contain constant eprom writes....

Just adding my two cents.....
 

kikito

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kikito said:
Just FYI, I'm NOT experiencing the problem at this time with the new firmware. The system is a full P25 VHF system.

EDIT: I'm also running it side by side with a Pro-96 to see if I can notice any differences.

Well, so far no signs of the problem discussed here since the update came out. Will keep monitoring....
 

mikewazowski

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Yup, mine works fine as well. No audio problems.

I've manually tuned most of my P25 systems so perhaps it's a problem with the AUTO setting?
 

Al42

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walter900 said:
BUT..... A band-aid fix and not a permenant solution.

If i paid $150.00 for my 396, i might settle for it, but sorry, not for a $550.00!!!!

UNIDEN>>>>> As a start...... Needs to Add tighter thresholds via next firmware!!!!!!!
Since it's the user who's adjusting the threshold, what, exactly, would you like Uniden to do?

THEN>>>>>>>The auto needs to be tweaked to work as auto, and NOT be left at the current state of "as close enough auto". The fix, if one comes out at all, doesn't need to contain constant eprom writes....
So you want the scanner to always start on the last setting it found, but not save that setting. How would you accomplish this? Either it writes the current threshold every time it changes, quickly causing the eeprom to reach end-of-life, or it doesn't keep writing to the eeprom, meaning that it starts at the same point each time, which is what it does now. You have some third (practical) alternative?

Not every sentence that parses has a 1:1 correspondence with the real world.
 

Al42

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Mike_Oxlong said:
Yup, mine works fine as well. No audio problems.

I've manually tuned most of my P25 systems so perhaps it's a problem with the AUTO setting?
Or just with leaving the auto setting at the default starting point?
 

walter900

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>Al42

>So you want the scanner to always start on the last setting it found, but not save that setting. How would you accomplish this? Either it writes the current threshold every time it changes, quickly causing the eeprom to reach end-of-life, or it doesn't keep writing to the eeprom, meaning that it starts at the same point each time, which is what it does now. You have some third (practical) alternative?

Thats a mis-interpitation of my post.

AUTO should workout be the best setting in 99% of the case,,,,, with alll hardware,,,,, not just the 396. If it isn't, it should be re-thought out and fixed to do so. The Manual adjustment, should hardly have to be used at all, but when needed, should have finer incriments.
 

rhutch

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Actually auto is rarely the best setting on anything. It's usually a compromise. Its there for people who can't be bothered to maxmize the results.
 

rdale

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I think he's comparing it to the Pro96, which is always on auto yet handles things just fine...
 

kikito

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rhutch said:
Actually auto is rarely the best setting on anything. It's usually a compromise. Its there for people who can't be bothered to maxmize the results.

On this radio (BCD396T) you have both, you can leave it on auto and also peak out the best (starting) setting so to speak. ;)
 

walter900

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>I think he's comparing it to the Pro96, which is always on auto yet handles things just fine...

Ding... Ding... Ding... BINGO!!

Thank you, i was.
 

DaveIN

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B4U said:
I also have the problem with the new firmware. I want to go back one version. Nasty noise.

Interesting, I monitor the MPSCS with no issues with a nasty noise...

Auto setting (7), about a 2 bar signal. It will drop out/get noisey if the signal goes below 2. I also use the RS-800 antenna. Sounds the same or more clear than the PRO-96 on the same control channel.

Could it be that the "noise" you hear is from an encryted comm? The 396 will hear the first ms of the encrypted comm and then mute the audio. It gives a little chirp at times before "ENC" is displayed. Just a possibility.
 
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B4U

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No it is not a enc. com. I know that sound well. It does sound like that but for a longer time. I did go back one version and all is well again. My problem was on the MI state system and seemed to be worse on a weak signal if it would cut in and out of lock I would get the digital sound for about two seconds before lock. It would do this on some strong signals also but not as bad. With the old firemware if the signal drops and comes back It is almost seamless.
 

kikito

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B4U said:
No it is not a enc. com. I know that sound well. It does sound like that but for a longer time. I did go back one version and all is well again. My problem was on the MI state system and seemed to be worse on a weak signal if it would cut in and out of lock I would get the digital sound for about two seconds before lock. It would do this on some strong signals also but not as bad. With the old firemware if the signal drops and comes back It is almost seamless.

Well, can we start isolating yet what type of system this is prone to happen?

I'm thinking is more likely on 3600bps CC with P25 voice systems from what I can see.
 
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