A Few Stupid Questions

Don31

Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Messages
16
Location
Cranford, NJ
Please indulge my ignorance. I've been involved as a FF/EMT since 1977 (retired) and have been away from scanning for a number of years. I'd like to get back into it and am completely and utterly clueless. I have a few questions.

After living in Union County my whole life, I suddenly find myself in Middlesex County. I'd like to listen to the major fire departments in the area (e.g., Newark, Elizabeth, Jersey City, New Brunswick, Union County Fire Mutual Aid and of course FDNY). PANYNJ and NJSP (GSP and Turnpike) would be a bonus.

1. Is it possible to listen to the above-listed agencies with just one scanner? If so, what would be the best option?

2. How on Earth does one program these things? I get a headache every time I try reading about it.

3. Are there places/people who can program these things for a fee?

4. Is there any reading material available, in simple English, with which I can educate myself?

Thanks in advance.
 

plusEric26

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
31
Location
Southwest Ohio
Looks like a lot of P25 phase 2 in your area. You'd probably want and SDS100 or SDS200.

I think with an SDS you can just put in your zip code and it'll give you systems you can listen to. See what users you want to listen to are on what systems using the radio reference database and pick out of the menus. Research & Reviews on youtube has a pretty good tutorial on how to use that system.

If you want to have some understanding on how these P25 simulcast systems work. Read up on radio trunking, p25 and p25 phase 2. But the gist of it is you have to understand that these systems have a pool of frequencies they operate on. Talkgroups are used, so each group (fire, police, etc) will have their own talkgroups. So think a fire dispatch talkgroup, and then some fireground talkgroups that would be assigned when needed.
 

hiegtx

Mentor
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 8, 2004
Messages
11,197
Location
Dallas, TX
Looks like a lot of P25 phase 2 in your area. You'd probably want and SDS100 or SDS200.

I think with an SDS you can just put in your zip code and it'll give you systems you can listen to. See what users you want to listen to are on what systems using the radio reference database and pick out of the menus. Research & Reviews on youtube has a pretty good tutorial on how to use that system.

If you want to have some understanding on how these P25 simulcast systems work. Read up on radio trunking, p25 and p25 phase 2. But the gist of it is you have to understand that these systems have a pool of frequencies they operate on. Talkgroups are used, so each group (fire, police, etc) will have their own talkgroups. So think a fire dispatch talkgroup, and then some fireground talkgroups that would be assigned when needed.
I suspect that you are correct on suggesting one of the SDS series scanners. Taking a look at the OPs area, there's a good number of systems using simulcast sites.

Please indulge my ignorance. I've been involved as a FF/EMT since 1977 (retired) and have been away from scanning for a number of years. I'd like to get back into it and am completely and utterly clueless. I have a few questions.

After living in Union County my whole life, I suddenly find myself in Middlesex County. I'd like to listen to the major fire departments in the area (e.g., Newark, Elizabeth, Jersey City, New Brunswick, Union County Fire Mutual Aid and of course FDNY). PANYNJ and NJSP (GSP and Turnpike) would be a bonus.
There's no need to worry about whether either one of the SDS series scanners, or the x36HP models, can handle the systems in your area. Hopefully, someone in your area will chime in on what they'd suggest for the simulcast systems.

1. Is it possible to listen to the above-listed agencies with just one scanner? If so, what would be the best option?
Any of the scanners mentioned are capable of receiving what you want to hear, as long as it is in range. (Again, someone local would have a better idea whether you could hear the more distant systems, such as FDNY).

2. How on Earth does one program these things? I get a headache every time I try reading about it.
4. Is there any reading material available, in simple English, with which I can educate myself?
The "Easier to Read Manuals page is a good place to start::
There are a large number of Wiki articles on programming issue. Multiple threads posted here in the Forums. Also, there's a wealth of videos on YouTube dealing with programming and operation of these scanners.

3. Are there places/people who can program these things for a fee?
There are a number of dealers, such as ScannerMaster or Bearcat Warehouse, that can program the scanner before shipping it to you. However, I try to discourage using one of them. All they will do is append systems from the main database to a Favorites list file, then charge you something in the range of $40 (or more, especially if you request more than one county). You can do that yourself, and use that money elsewhere. Besides, systems periodically get updated, as more users join, or for other reasons. Do you really want to pay another $40 (or more) every time something changes? Once you get comfortable with whichever model you choose, updates are quick & easy to do.

You can download & install Sentinel on your PC before you get a scanner (even before you order one).
(The Easier to Read page has instructions for Sentinel as well.)

With Sentinel installed, update the database in Sentinel. Choose the Service Types you want. When shipped, only the Dispatch service types are enabled for Public Safety: Law Dispatch, Fire Dispatch, EMS Dispatch, & Multi-dispatch. You should also enable the related Tac and Talk service types for these> Examples like Law Talk, Law Tac, Fire Tac, etc.

Once you set up your Service Types, set your location and a range in your Profile in Sentinel. Once you have done that, you can simply have Sentinel create a Favorites list for you based on your service types and location details. Once you get whichever scanner you choose, ask (here, in your state's forum) if someone in your area will share a programming file.

More on how Location & Range settings are used by these scanners can be found here:
How it Works: Location, Location, Location

The SDS series scanners have a couple of features not present on the x36HP scanners. These include a more detailed, and customizable, display. And, the SDS scanners can use Filters as well as entry of the NAC for trunked system sites. (Those settings are not required, but in some cases, they are useful.)

But, the basic programming structure for all four of these scanners (436HP, 536HP, SDS100, and SDS200) is exactly the same. They all use the same formats for Favorites lists, as well as programming Systems, Departments, and Sites. So a file from any of these models can be used in any of the others in this group.
 

plusEric26

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
31
Location
Southwest Ohio
Personally I'd say don't go for saving a few bucks here, get an sds radio. Simulcast is going to ruin your day otherwise, far too much potential for simulcast distortion.
 

GM

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
1,079
I currently live in Middlesex County (Edison), and your in luck with scanning most of what you want to monitor. However, you'll need to spend the money to purchase a Uniden SDS series scanner. The SDS100 is a powerful handheld digital trunking scanner that overcomes simulcast distortion, and the SDS200 is the base model version. As far as monitoring the following, these are my results from the southern part of Edison in the Middlesex College area:

Newark: yes
Elizabeth: yes
Jersey City: out of range for me
New Brunswick: yes
Union County Fire M/A: yes
FDNY: yes (depends on where in the County you live)
PANYNJ: most is encrypted, except for a few back-up channels I've been told
NJSP: yes including GSP & NJTP

As a side note, no other digital scanner will perform reliably 100% of the time on these digital simulcast systems in Middlesex County except for the Uniden SDS scanners. I've tried the Whistler ones, the BCD325P2/BCD996P2, along with the BCDx36HP scanners, and they don't work/decode 100% of the time like the SDS series ones do. I would strongly suggest investing in the SDS series scanners for the most enjoyment.

- Greg M.
 

RadioChief55

Member
Feed Provider
Joined
Dec 1, 2006
Messages
590
JCFD dispatches on the JCFD UHF trunk system and they are encrypted on that system. However, their repeater fireground channels are analog UHF in the clear. Depending where you are in Middlesex County you may or maynot get JCFD without an outdoor antenna. I wouldn't use the zip code method to monitor, 90 percent of what you will get is not what you want. I use sentinel and ProScan to program the SDS radios and if you watch some videos on YouTube and are somewhat familiar with a computer it can be figured out.

Some of the older scanners may work in your area, but there's a good chance they will struggle with the simulcast systems. I have had all the Uniden scanners and the SDS line is the best. I have the SDS100 and a few SDS200, love them. The best radio for simulcast systems are Unication G5 radios. But they don't "Scan" persay.

I can program all on the above radios.
 

rr60

Active Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
1,790
Thank you guys, this is very helpful!

It looks like I've got some homework to do!
One last item. Modern day listening is very different than before the advent of Trunked Radio Systems (TRS). You have listed agencies that use different TRS systems and conventional systems. In addition you cited agencies that may use a common TRS but at times may be isolated to certain “sites” of a TRS. I often see this with NBFD isolated on Site 8 (but not always).

Any radio needs to always be on a TRS control channel to receive instruction on what TG and frequency to auto tune. Any time spent scanning other sites and systems will certainly result in missed calls.

Consider you may need more than one radio. Another solution may be to see if there is an online feed for what you interest is. Good luck !
 

Don31

Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Messages
16
Location
Cranford, NJ
One last item. Modern day listening is very different than before the advent of Trunked Radio Systems (TRS). You have listed agencies that use different TRS systems and conventional systems. In addition you cited agencies that may use a common TRS but at times may be isolated to certain “sites” of a TRS. I often see this with NBFD isolated on Site 8 (but not always).

Any radio needs to always be on a TRS control channel to receive instruction on what TG and frequency to auto tune. Any time spent scanning other sites and systems will certainly result in missed calls.

Consider you may need more than one radio. Another solution may be to see if there is an online feed for what you interest is. Good luck !
Thank you.

I do have two old radios (Trunk Tracker II and a trunk Tracker IV, which I pretty much never used), I think the II would suffice for the FDNY. I need to play around with it I think.
 
Top