D
DaveNF2G
Guest
fivestarr said:
Tsk, tsk. The shortest distance between two points over a sphere is a great circle, not a straight line.
Airway Intersections
- Thread starter akuter
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Tsk, tsk. The shortest distance between two points over a sphere is a great circle, not a straight line.
fivestarr
Member
er ah you are correct, sir great circle it is.
Lets make it more interesting. My residence is 3.88 km from NH and 8.59 km from DUSTR. That should do it, but I'll give you one more: 18.36 km TIK vor on the 090 radial. The first person to post my lat/long and elevation +/- 10 feet will win a prize. Whats the prize, you screamed. Its a Motorola transit antenna 800 mhz, the fin type. white plastic radome which I have a bucket full of and will never miss one. It has so-239 connector and is useful for monitoring and certainly still good for transmitting too. The prize will be sent by priority mail at no cost to the winner. Let the games begin.
Lets make it more interesting. My residence is 3.88 km from NH and 8.59 km from DUSTR. That should do it, but I'll give you one more: 18.36 km TIK vor on the 090 radial. The first person to post my lat/long and elevation +/- 10 feet will win a prize. Whats the prize, you screamed. Its a Motorola transit antenna 800 mhz, the fin type. white plastic radome which I have a bucket full of and will never miss one. It has so-239 connector and is useful for monitoring and certainly still good for transmitting too. The prize will be sent by priority mail at no cost to the winner. Let the games begin.
fivestarr
Member
I'm a little surprised no one has jumped on my challenge. :?: Do you need another hint?
N
N_Jay
Guest
fivestarr said:
The figures you provided are only accurate to +/- 5 meters (assuming the least significant diget is accurate, so how are we to get to +/- 10 feet?
By the way, the shortest DISTANCE between two points is a strait line.
That route may not be navigable! :twisted:
edN
Member
Well, it IS navigable... but only for a short distance. There are several mountains in Colorado and, and a couple locally that would prove that point. They're marked by burn sites.N_Jay said:
N
N_Jay
Guest
edN said:
Just a little cumulous granite
fivestarr
Member
I will accept +/- 5 meters on the surface (lat/long). I want you to get the MSL to +/- 10 feet. That can be googled up in a matter of minutes.
Okay, I threw you a curve. DUSTR is on the high altitude (IFR) Jepp Chart. Here is another clue: from BARNS, 33.64 Km. Look on V436.
Also I just noticed that Aeroplanner (at least in the public access) does not show HN (SUBYE). The NDB at KSNL was decommissioned just after the ILS was installed in 2001, and moved 5Km north to become the HN (SUYBE) which is the outer marker/beacon on approach to KSNL. Thats just another reason I dropped my subscription to Aeroplanner, too many errors/omissions. Any old VFR sectional after 2001 will show HN. I will post a picture of HN sometime. It is actually two transmitters; the NDB, 264 khz, the SUYBE, 75mhz with a series of tones. Go to www.avionicswest.com/marker_beacon_...nsmitted in morse dit dit dit dit dah dit).
Okay, I threw you a curve. DUSTR is on the high altitude (IFR) Jepp Chart. Here is another clue: from BARNS, 33.64 Km. Look on V436.
Also I just noticed that Aeroplanner (at least in the public access) does not show HN (SUBYE). The NDB at KSNL was decommissioned just after the ILS was installed in 2001, and moved 5Km north to become the HN (SUYBE) which is the outer marker/beacon on approach to KSNL. Thats just another reason I dropped my subscription to Aeroplanner, too many errors/omissions. Any old VFR sectional after 2001 will show HN. I will post a picture of HN sometime. It is actually two transmitters; the NDB, 264 khz, the SUYBE, 75mhz with a series of tones. Go to www.avionicswest.com/marker_beacon_...nsmitted in morse dit dit dit dit dah dit).
Starion
Member
I think an intersection is just a set of longitude and laditute coordinates.
It looks like everyone else gave a better answer than I did.
Standard Terminal Arrivals or STARs also use intersection waypoints and VORTACs.
I wonder what VORs look like. Wait, I can see some at Dulles (Armel) and Washington National Airport (DCA). Nevermind.
It looks like everyone else gave a better answer than I did.
Standard Terminal Arrivals or STARs also use intersection waypoints and VORTACs.
I wonder what VORs look like. Wait, I can see some at Dulles (Armel) and Washington National Airport (DCA). Nevermind.
Starion said:
Usually they look like a big white sombrero on top of a little round house!! ;-)
mn2deep
Member
fivestarr said:
Is SE 51st Street close enough?
mrjon
Member
edN
Member
His challenge requested lat/long and elevation +/- 10 feet.mn2deep said:
But, if you give him his street and house number that may suffice.
mn2deep
Member
edN said:
Once I know I have the street, I'll start working on the house number! :lol:
Geez, Where are my charts?
fivestarr
Member
challenge
Thanks to all of you who are working on solving my challenge. I have a hint and a clue for you today and I am going to "sweeten the pot" by adding another antenna to the prize. :lol:
Hint: Best way to solve in my opinion is to use a Dallas-Ft. Worth VFR sectional and a compass. A plotter would be helpful.
Clue: My location is 17.06 Km from MINGG at 349 deg. true.
Im thinking about geocaching the next clue if necessary although that would eliminate everyone except the local folks. Need input on that.
The added prize item is another "phantom" antenna. It is a "hard hat" antenna made by DECIBEL (you will recognize that name to be the premier manufacturer of commercial antennae) and is a model 706 made for mobile installation, frequency on this antenna is 406-420 mhz govt. This antenna is new/old stock and never been installed. This is an expensive antenna and not junk. :!: I could get a few bux for it on ebay or have some fun with it.
Thanks to all of you who are working on solving my challenge. I have a hint and a clue for you today and I am going to "sweeten the pot" by adding another antenna to the prize. :lol:
Hint: Best way to solve in my opinion is to use a Dallas-Ft. Worth VFR sectional and a compass. A plotter would be helpful.
Clue: My location is 17.06 Km from MINGG at 349 deg. true.
Im thinking about geocaching the next clue if necessary although that would eliminate everyone except the local folks. Need input on that.
The added prize item is another "phantom" antenna. It is a "hard hat" antenna made by DECIBEL (you will recognize that name to be the premier manufacturer of commercial antennae) and is a model 706 made for mobile installation, frequency on this antenna is 406-420 mhz govt. This antenna is new/old stock and never been installed. This is an expensive antenna and not junk. :!: I could get a few bux for it on ebay or have some fun with it.
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2002
- Messages
- 344
Ok, to put a good answer to this question.
An Intersection is any identifiable point where two or more radials or barings from a navigational aid intersect. It could be two VOR's (Very high omni-directional range) Radials Which is what most people are familiar with but it could also be 2 NDB's (Non-directional Radio Beacons) or a VOR and an NDB, a VOR and a Localizer, Localizer and NDB, or there is an intersection in Texas that's from 2 Localizers. Now there are intersections that are not from 2 sources, GPS Waypoints and VOR/DME intersections. GPS speaks for its-self. But VOR/DME (Distance Measuring Equipment) is where an intersection is a specific distance on one radial from a VOR.
Now there are two main types of intersections, Compulsory, and Non-Compulsory. Compulsory intersections are required to be reported to Air Traffic Control (ATC) when the plane reaches that point and Non-Compulsory are intersections where they are not required to be reported unless asked to do so.
Intersections cannot be found on the ground by an individual. One way of doing this is to go to www.Airnav.com click on Fixes search through the fixes untill you find the one you want, and it will give you the Lat and Long for that intersection, Now they are not named like you would think, most of them have very weird names for things. GOLLF, GOBBY, BACUN, AKUKY, and my favorite, PANIC.
They can be found on Low and High Altitude En-route charts, Terminal Procedure publications, published SID's and STAR's (Standard Instrument Departure Proceedures and Standard Terminal Arrival Routes) Most of the ones you will be looking for will not be on Sectional Charts.
I hope this helps,
If you have any more questions I'd be more then happy to help just drop me a PM.
Thanks,
Kevin
An Intersection is any identifiable point where two or more radials or barings from a navigational aid intersect. It could be two VOR's (Very high omni-directional range) Radials Which is what most people are familiar with but it could also be 2 NDB's (Non-directional Radio Beacons) or a VOR and an NDB, a VOR and a Localizer, Localizer and NDB, or there is an intersection in Texas that's from 2 Localizers. Now there are intersections that are not from 2 sources, GPS Waypoints and VOR/DME intersections. GPS speaks for its-self. But VOR/DME (Distance Measuring Equipment) is where an intersection is a specific distance on one radial from a VOR.
Now there are two main types of intersections, Compulsory, and Non-Compulsory. Compulsory intersections are required to be reported to Air Traffic Control (ATC) when the plane reaches that point and Non-Compulsory are intersections where they are not required to be reported unless asked to do so.
Intersections cannot be found on the ground by an individual. One way of doing this is to go to www.Airnav.com click on Fixes search through the fixes untill you find the one you want, and it will give you the Lat and Long for that intersection, Now they are not named like you would think, most of them have very weird names for things. GOLLF, GOBBY, BACUN, AKUKY, and my favorite, PANIC.
They can be found on Low and High Altitude En-route charts, Terminal Procedure publications, published SID's and STAR's (Standard Instrument Departure Proceedures and Standard Terminal Arrival Routes) Most of the ones you will be looking for will not be on Sectional Charts.
I hope this helps,
If you have any more questions I'd be more then happy to help just drop me a PM.
Thanks,
Kevin
TXFirefighter112
Member
That site doesnt seem to work too well. I looked up my address and the results it returned do not look anything like my neighborhood. There is what appears to be a highway running E/W but if that is SH-190 (right across the street from me) then the marker that indicates my house should be to the south of that. And a search for SH-190 just shows some small road with a giant curve in it. Some of these photos are right on target (like West @ Vesey Manhattan, New York shows WTC 1 & 2) but others are clearly wrong (like my girlfreinds house built in the 70's shows up as a dirt field in a photo from '95)
When trying to locate intersections in reference to landmarks, it should also be noted that they airways are very wide. I seem to recall that an airway can be 3-5 miles to either side of the center line. (in other words the total width of an airway could be as much as 6-10 miles)
If those figures are correct, an intersection might occur over an area of 36-100 square miles. (the larger figure would be just about the size of
Washington, DC plus Arlington & Alexandria)
73/Allen (N4JRI)
If those figures are correct, an intersection might occur over an area of 36-100 square miles. (the larger figure would be just about the size of
Washington, DC plus Arlington & Alexandria)
73/Allen (N4JRI)
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2002
- Messages
- 344
Airways are 4 miles either side of centerline, and not all intersections are on Airways. The intersections can't be over a wide area, it's where the two navigation signals intersect, so the actual intersection is exactly where the two cross, everytime. Now if the plane is at that exact point +-0 then that is the question.
All of that depends on how wide a degree is on your VOR. How far can you stray from the centerline of the airway and still read the same bearing? (and isn't this the reason that the airway is so wide in the first place?)
Unless you're using GPS, it seems to me that an intersection could be pretty large.
Unless you're using GPS, it seems to me that an intersection could be pretty large.
n4jri said:
VOR radials are very narrow, you're either on the radial or you're not. There is no leeway. The reason for airways being so wide is because aircraft DO deviate a bit, what with crosswinds and such, and sometimes it takes a good bit of effort to get back on the radial. It is also rare for a pilot to stay perfectly centered on a radial, it's more likely that the aircraft will drift to one side, then the pilot corrects and drifts to the other side. I've never been able to keep the needle perfectly centered for more than a few minutes becuase there is so much more to do than just sit and watch the needle.
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