Alberta Province Wide Radio: An Update

[Jay911]

Hi folks,

I learned some things about the province-wide radio project today.

It is going to happen. No matter what you heard from your cousin's best friend's neighbor's gardener who happened to know somebody who unlocked the gate for the tech at tower site XYZ. This is well underway at this point.

The current descriptor is the Alberta First Responders' Radio Communications System, or AFRRCS. Don't expect that name to stick - I hear it's not very favored. I pronounce it "a-farks" but to each their own.

The driving force is the Alberta Office of the Solicitor General and Service Alberta (formerly Restructuring & Government Efficiency). They're handling it mainly because the two radio systems that need help the most - MDMRS and PACS - fall into their areas of control.

The timeline for total system completion is end of 2010 at the latest. The dates are still fuzzy, of course - things are still in the incipient phases, even if they are late in the incipient phases - but construction is scheduled to begin in October 2007 and take 3 years. Also, for what it's worth, the system is intended to last for 15 years from the time of deployment.

It will be 700MHz and will be P25. That is the standard that the provincial overseers are mandating in the tender/RFP/whatever you wish to call it.

There will be some encryption. Participants in the system are having their interests represented by filling out a "Needs Survey" in which they describe their communications requirements and interoperability issues. Encryption is offered at every turn in this survey.

We will likely see some sites roll out by the end of this year. The gist I am getting is that migration will be similar to how Ontario is doing it with ON FleetNet - in phases/zones. I would expect that larger areas may be developed first, with major transportation corridors following - because as I said, this is intended to first and foremost replace MDMRS and PACS, and MDMRS is all but on life support right now, and PACS reportedly can last just long enough for this new system to come online.

There is supposed to be a website set up shortly detailing the progress. I'm not sure if it's intended for public consumption or just the partner agencies involved in the system; as most of you know, I work with a couple of said partner agencies, so I have to be careful what exactly I pass around, so to speak. If information crosses me that is meant for the world to hear about, I'll contribute it.

 

[HDMechanic]

Jay
Due you think we will be able to moniter the new system with the current scanners on the market??

 

[Jay911]

I believe the 396, 996, etc. can handle 700MHz P25 systems.

 

[richster]

I believe the 396, 996, etc. can handle 700MHz P25 systems.

The new digital scanners will not trunktrack the MA-COM flavor of 9600 P25 TRS. MA-COM is building P25 9600 systems for the RCMP here in Sask, and the digital scanners capable of tracking 9600 digital systems will not track it.

The above scanners Jay listed, will convert the P25 digital comms back to analog, but in conventional mode only. So if the particular TRS is very busy, keeping track of agencies will be next to impossible.

Better hope MA-COM doesn't get the contract.

Regards,
Richster.

 

[HDMechanic]

Thats good to know. Should be interesting to see if the RCMP will be on the system and if they use encryption on all there comunications like some of the other provincies.

 

[Jay911]

The RCMP will be on it. PACS is the RCMP's current system which is being replaced.

This is just my personal opinion, but I don't have much concern about M/A-COM getting the contract. As I've said before, talks had been in progress before to expand the Calgary DRS (which is Motorola) for a signficant area beyond the Calgary city limits - i.e. from the AB/BC border to Brooks, and from Crossfield to Okotoks - and it was ready to go, as in, sign here and we start putting up towers tomorrow - when the AFRRCS project became known throughout the land. So that project has been put on hold, obviously. With all due respect to the folks in Edmonton and Lethbridge and other places using EDACS, I haven't heard any raucous cheers about how the systems there are working so well. I am pretty certain that the majority of the participants I've spoken with favor Motorola.

Having said that, we all know that there are good systems of both designs and bad just the same. I got the impression that there aren't many vendors willing to submit answers to the RFP - it might be as few as you can count on one hand - but the feeling I got is that we'll know in a few months, but obviously no later than September/October for sure.

 

[SCPD]

I learned some things about the province-wide radio project today.

It is going to happen. No matter what you heard from your cousin's best friend's neighbor's gardener who happened to know somebody who unlocked the gate for the tech at tower site XYZ. This is well underway at this point.




I've been hearing and reading about a 700 MHz province wide radio system for years. I’ve seen tidbits on the net, not from Canadian sites, from the US. This website from Montana makes reference to this system back in 2005. http://itsd.mt.gov/techmt/publicsafety/docs/vol_1_issue_27_ham_2005_09_09.doc

I just recently met with two communication officers from two surrounding counties near the city of Edmonton. As one of many topics, one was a province wide radios system, both said they would be more than willing to join any province wide system as long as the province pays for it. What was also said, joining this system will create other interoperability issues with local industry first responders. In one example local industry funded the majority of that counties fire/ambulance department apparatus upgrades and much more.

A replacement to PACS and MDMRS are long past due, and no doubt going to happen. It will be intresting too see who else jumps on board.

 

[Jay911]

Well, I have no intention of confirming this as a rock-solid cast-in-stone fact, but the way it was outlined to me today was that the province will cover 100% of the infrastructure - the network, towers, base consoles, etc. The only thing municipalities will be on the hook for are the radios themselves.

Provincial reps are meeting with emergency services responders over the next 2 weeks across the province in a series of meetings to outline a lot of what I said above, plus a lot more, to bring everyone with an interest on board and get things moving. The rumors that have been flying for ages are over; this is actual, material progress now.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'create other interoperability issues'. Are you talking about local groups that may not need/want full access to the prov-wide system? Groups that may have infrequent contact with emergency services? There are a couple of things I heard relating to this kind of thing. One is that there will remain interfaces and patches to link with other functions, services, frequencies, etc. - for example, Provincial Ambulance (which I doubt will be converted to a 700MHz talkgroup, if for no other reason than it's much easier for the trauma helicopters, BCAS, etc, to go to a VHF simplex freq). Second is that the 700MHz radios I've seen are to be designed to function on 800 as well, and with conventional repeater/simplex to boot. I don't know if you Edmonton folk have any conv freqs "on" your city trunk system, but down here, we have three conventional repeaters and three conventional simplex channels (for Fire, at least - Police and EMS have extras as well). They're used for close-range at-scene comms, but there's nothing that says they couldn't be used, for example, to communicate with the local jail, or what-have-you, providing the jail puts the same frequency in their radios as a simplex channel as well. (Or a crossband repeater, or something similar - there are a number of options that could be exercised.)

As well, all emergency responders in the province have been delivered this Needs Survey, and it goes into very fine detail asking what agencies a responder group needs to communicate with and how they accomplish that. So if going to a 700MHz system "breaks" existing interoperability, that should be known well ahead of time by way of this survey - which will give the designers time and opportunity to devise an appropriate workaround.

 

[SCPD]

Well, I have no intention of confirming this as a rock-solid cast-in-stone fact, but the way it was outlined to me today was that the province will cover 100% of the infrastructure - the network, towers, base consoles, etc. The only thing municipalities will be on the hook for are the radios themselves.

Provincial reps are meeting with emergency services responders over the next 2 weeks across the province in a series of meetings to outline a lot of what I said above, plus a lot more, to bring everyone with an interest on board and get things moving. The rumors that have been flying for ages are over; this is actual, material progress now.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'create other interoperability issues'. Are you talking about local groups that may not need/want full access to the prov-wide system? Groups that may have infrequent contact with emergency services? There are a couple of things I heard relating to this kind of thing. One is that there will remain interfaces and patches to link with other functions, services, frequencies, etc. - for example, Provincial Ambulance (which I doubt will be converted to a 700MHz talkgroup, if for no other reason than it's much easier for the trauma helicopters, BCAS, etc, to go to a VHF simplex freq). Second is that the 700MHz radios I've seen are to be designed to function on 800 as well, and with conventional repeater/simplex to boot. I don't know if you Edmonton folk have any conv freqs "on" your city trunk system, but down here, we have three conventional repeaters and three conventional simplex channels (for Fire, at least - Police and EMS have extras as well). They're used for close-range at-scene comms, but there's nothing that says they couldn't be used, for example, to communicate with the local jail, or what-have-you, providing the jail puts the same frequency in their radios as a simplex channel as well. (Or a crossband repeater, or something similar - there are a number of options that could be exercised.)

As well, all emergency responders in the province have been delivered this Needs Survey, and it goes into very fine detail asking what agencies a responder group needs to communicate with and how they accomplish that. So if going to a 700MHz system "breaks" existing interoperability, that should be known well ahead of time by way of this survey - which will give the designers time and opportunity to devise an appropriate workaround.

Since this is public knowledge I can say Strathcona county emergency services have mutual UHF frequencys with local industry (oil and gas) It was made clear just last week this UHF radio system will remain in place until 2010. On the other hand Sturgeon county can hardly wait for a new radio system.
Thier was a little buzz over the estimated cost of the radios. I was told (did not actually see this in writing) $ 4000.00 per mobile and slightly less per handheld, dispatch console was over $ 25,000

 

[RyGuy009]

whoa wait.
will we be able to scan in alberta?
i live in calgary and i am waiting for my BCD396T Handheld...

 

[electricsheep]

Finally!
Well, it's about time they started moving forwards on this from a purely theoretical concept... There have been references to this dating back to 2002... "4.3 Work closely with the RCMP, Infrastructure, Innovation and Science, Environment and other stakeholders to develop a province-wide multi-user radio system."

Which of course never took off, and as documented here in previous threads, crashed and burned a couple of times along the way it seems. I remember specifically being told by someone closely associated with MDMRS last spring that the system would be down within a month or two. Well, we still hear the occasional call out on it. Definitely only Motor Transport and the occasional F&W officer, but it is still operating.

Five years to get here, let's hope they get it right. OpenSky all the way! Just kidding.

I am going to be curious as to how the smaller municipalities and less rich counties will afford the radios and installs/service packages. Some of them are still working on UHF simplex systems installed 20 years ago. But then again, these are the folks who aren't used to interoperability anyhow, so their minds might just explode trying to comprehend the system in the first place.

 

[electricsheep]

whoa wait.
will we be able to scan in alberta?
i live in calgary and i am waiting for my BCD396T Handheld...

I think it depends on what they get back as responses to their RFP, and what they end up choosing. 700mhz/P25 is scannable, whether it behaves is another thing, and whether everything down to the bolt and nut shop is encrypted is another.

 

[Jay911]

I am going to be curious as to how the smaller municipalities and less rich counties will afford the radios and installs/service packages. Some of them are still working on UHF simplex systems installed 20 years ago.

The theoretical response to that was that the agencies will not have to expend any $ on infrastructure any more (as they likely do now), so that money will be freed up. I don't know how much stock I put in that excuse, though - I think my VFD moves $5000/yr for licensing, tower/repeater upkeep and maint, etc., and my ballpark estimate for outfitting us with enough mobiles & portables to work a scene properly (never mind outfitting every member with a portable!) clocks in at over $100,000. And that's for a single-station, less-than-40-member fire department.

As for your comment in the next post you made about encryption, the gist I get from the Needs Survey is that encryption will be available to those who ask for it, but will not be a system-wide, default function.

 

[electricsheep]

The theoretical response to that was that the agencies will not have to expend any $ on infrastructure any more (as they likely do now), so that money will be freed up. I don't know how much stock I put in that excuse, though - I think my VFD moves $5000/yr for licensing, tower/repeater upkeep and maint, etc., and my ballpark estimate for outfitting us with enough mobiles & portables to work a scene properly (never mind outfitting every member with a portable!) clocks in at over $100,000. And that's for a single-station, less-than-40-member fire department.

That's what I was thinking. Each radio is going to be thousands of dollars, and even the smallest departments are going to find heading to their local county and municipal boards asking for $100K in new radio toys to replace a system that for them and their purposes may work just fine are going to be facing an uphill battle all in the name of interoperability.

 

[electricsheep]

From the Feb issue of Firenews:

The resolution from the 2006
conference regarding radio
frequencies has not been responded
to by Industry Canada. There is
also an initiative by the Solicitor
General’s department to move
forward with the “Alberta First
Responders Radio Communication
System”. This system is intended
to provide a backbone for interagency
communications. All AFCA
members are advised to follow this
issue to determine the impact on
their individual operations.

 

[electricsheep]

Some more:

Alberta First Responder Radio Communication System update
Greater interoperability for
first responders
here are a number of
police, fire, EMS and public
safety agencies radio systems
in place in Alberta but, because
they were implemented at different
times with different manufacturers’
technology, they cannot communicate
with each other. Further, these radio
systems are at various stages in their
life cycle; many of them are aging and
in need of replacement.
Today, during disasters (e.g., the
Pine Lake tornado in 2000, the fire
at Edmonton Waste Management
in 2005) or visits by dignitaries (e.g., the
Queen’s visit in 2005, the G8 Summit
in 2002), police and public safety
agencies are significantly limited in
their ability to collaborate, coordinate
and cooperate with each other to
ensure public safety. Situations occur
that require first responders to leave
their jurisdiction, rendering their radio
communications inoperable.
Given Alberta’s current radio
communication limitations, there is
a concern that first responders will
be significantly hampered in their
efforts to support Albertans during a
larger scale emergency. To this end, the
Government of Alberta is embarking
on a major initiative to implement
an exclusive wireless network
dedicated to the interoperability of
the communications systems of first
responders in the province.
The purpose of the Alberta First
Responder Radio Communication
System (AFRRCS) Initiative is to:
• develop and implement a shared,
province-wide wireless network that
includes the necessary infrastructure
for call / dispatch centre operations to
meet the current and future needs of
public safety agencies;
• work in partnership
with the police and
other public safety
agencies to provide
effective and
efficient emergency
communication
services in
the interest of
public safety and
public service;
• enable police and
public safety agencies
to exchange timely,
accurate, relevant
and complete voice and
data information;
• facilitate inter-agency
cooperation when the
need arises, allowing
easy coordination of interagency
operations;
• maximize the safety of
Albertans when emergencies
and disasters occur;
• enhance the safety of police and
public safety officials; and
• allow for information sharing
among first responders,
when required.
Emergency Management Alberta (EMA)
is playing a significant role in this
initiative. It is the objective of EMA to
ensure that the communication needs
of all first responders in a disaster
scenario are taken into account,
including fire, ambulance and police
agencies, traditionally seen as first
responders, and other agencies, such as
utility companies, social services, etc.,
who may only play a first responder role
for the duration of a disaster response.
The initiative is expected to take
several years to complete.
A major first phase of the initiative
is the completion of an “AFRRCS
Needs Survey” which has currently
been forwarded to all municipal
governments and fire departments in
Alberta. While the possibility exists
that copies of the survey form come
from a number of different sources,
each municipality is only expected to
complete the survey once. It is critical
that municipalities be encouraged
to complete the survey and send it,
and that the needs of the municipal
disaster services agency through the
local director of disaster services be
considered in its completion.
The new system will use a portion
of the 700 Mhz band on the radio
spectrum, which has been set aside by
Industry Canada for exclusive use of
emergency responders. Municipalities
will play an important part in the
implementation of the system. Plans
are also underway to provide gateways
into the system for municipalities who
continue to operate on the current landbased
mobile bands.

I think one of the important things to note from this is the last passage, that states gateways will be provided for municipalities using their existing systems. All is not lost or doom and gloom. This will be a great system I feel.

 

[Chilliwack40]

Wow, It would have been nice for BC to go through something like this in the planning stages. Especially in the Lower Mainland/Greater Vancouver area. Instead we got E-Comm and the WARS radio system...

 

[SCPD]

Wow, It would have been nice for BC to go through something like this in the planning stages. Especially in the Lower Mainland/Greater Vancouver area. Instead we got E-Comm and the WARS radio system...

I thought the greater Vancouver area was going to upgrade the E-Comm system prior to the 2010, or at least that is the rumor I heard.

 

[Chilliwack40]

I thought the greater Vancouver area was going to upgrade the E-Comm system prior to the 2010, or at least that is the rumor I heard.

Well, I work closely with E-Comm on a daily basis and haven't heard of any plans for expansions. They'd better get a move on though, I was told that all Public Safety infrastructure has to be up and functioning bug free for the 2009 World Police & Fire Games in Vancouver.

 

[Jay911]

Chwk, hope they don't go the way they did for G8 here. While it worked half-baked well, ultimately, having trailer-mounted antenna sites doesn't seem very reliable to me.. even though a cell company brought an 18-wheeler SatCOW (Cell On Wheels) to our firehall last year when the nearby golf course had a major PGA tournament, and it worked well too.

I was talking with a tech recently who worked the G8 install here. The RCMP leased a building and had hardline comms run into it from our local comm center. It was supposedly quite a chore, considering, despite the fact our equipment was modern and had been upgraded frequently, the wires coming in and out of the building was worn out copper that was laid in 1908. That's not a transposition.

IIRC, Salt Lake was showcased in one of my communications/911 magazines last year or the year before, for their multi-tiered, multi-agency radio network during the Olympics that were held there not many years ago. Here's to hoping your area/crews go about things the same way.