Alberta Province Wide Radio: An Update

[Chilliwack40]

Well, I don't hold my breath over E-Comm doing something right. The whole thing has been messed up and poorly designed from the get go, and thats just the radio system. The system has been in place for 10 years, and they still haven't fixed the dead spots that they knew they had when the system went online. It's going to be interesting to see what they do on the Sea-to-Sky corridor with the radios....E-Comms system only covers to West Vancouver, Lions Bay on a good day. Once you're beyond that it's all conventional VHF. Its a good thing the RCMP are in charge of Security and Communications, because there are a lot of people working at E-Comm who would not be able to do the Job that is going to be required of them at the Olympics, they seem to have a hard enough time with the day-to-day stuff. Anyway, I'm ranting now...I'm just waiting for the RCMP techs to start our VHF upgrades that they have been planning. I love getting to be the guinea pigs for things!

 

[electricsheep]

Another update: This one from Crowsnest Pass/Coleman area this past Friday:

Radio Communication System
In his report to Council, Chief Administrative Officer Gordon Lundy said he had attended a meeting in Lethbridge with Crowsnest Pass EMS Director Troy Linderman to learn more about the Alberta First Responder Radio Communication System (AFRRCS). The meeting was hosted by the Alberta Solicitor General and Service Alberta departments. The main reason for this project is to look into opportunities for a province-wide radio communication system because many of the current services are out-of-date. Lundy says he will present more information to Council when he receives it.

 

[Jay911]

Its a good thing the RCMP are in charge of Security and Communications

In that case, in all seriousness, take a look at Motorola sysid 7520, which is listed as a portable Motorola Smartzone system in the Ontario database. I'm 99% sure that this is the hardware infrastructure that was "tacked on" to sysid 753f here in Calgary for the G8 summit in 2002. It involves a half-dozen or so trailer-mounted repeater sites, a radio cache, etc., and has been trucked around and set up in various places since. Seems like the RCMP are using it as their own traveling trunk system to be brought into use whereever they need a radio system for a few days/weeks.

 

[johnspoon]

More information on the "mobile trunking system"

Jay, to give you a brief history on this system. At the G8 with the costs increasing, the RCMP made a decision to fund the radio system out of their operating budget rather than making it a G8 expense. Ottawa has maintained a "emergency" stock of radio equipment to be used at major events but it was a combination(1600 radios) of various manufacturers, frequencies (155, 400, 800) which made it extremely hard to manage. They used the G8 as an opportunity to replace the "emergency" stock with all the radio equipment after the G8. The 460mhz frequencies are licensed by the RCMP for use all across Canada, so it now can be shipped any where and setup as a "mobile motorola trunking system". That is one of the prime reasons we used "trailer" mounted equipment during the G8. Your comment on the G8 HQ was interesting but you must realize the leasing of the building was arranged by Supply and Services Dept of the Federal Government not the RCMP. It was not our first choice but the RCMP does not have the authority to enter into leasing arrangements for buildings on their own. Hopefully, with all players being consulted in the new proposed "Alberta" system, it will be one that we can be proud of. With the RFP requirements and contracting of new systems, it will be at least 2-3 years away depending on which company gets the contract. I know the RCMP will not enter into a new system unless it is P25 digital so that their existing equipment can be used. I hope this clarifies some of the questions on the "Ontario System" .

 

[Jay911]

Hi Johnspoon,

Thanks for your comments as always.. I should have clarified in my post about the building wiring.. the building with the ancient wiring was "ours" (Calgary's alarm center) not the leased RCMP place.

 

[Jay911]

Here's an update for you ... and I'm making this sticky as it is probably going to be referred to often in the future.

The biggest thing that's news, and I'm sorry to say this, is that it looks like RCMP will be encrypted. That's implied by the description of how things will go when interoperating with them. The gist I get is that the other agencies involved most likely won't be encrypted.

In the ballpark of signal strength, the major partners have identified building penetration of the signal to be a major concern, so there may be a chance that coverage will be very strong in many areas, especially urban ones.

I-Calls will be enabled on the system. So will dynamic regrouping, which will allow users to be automatically re-grouped into new talkgroups on-the-fly, if for example a large section of responders need to be on the same group for a prolonged incident.

Telephone interconnects are being considered as a secondary feature.

OTAR/OTAP (over the air rekey/over the air program) will be enabled.

It is being designed to be able to integrate across interprovincial and international borders. I think this part is "just words" at this point, considering the wide variety of systems and designs in neighboring provinces and states.

Interfacing with existing trunk and conventional radio systems is intended to be planned in to allow for simpler cutover and expansion as well as, for example, comms on the VHF Provincial Ambulance channel, etc.

The intent is to design paging (mainly for volunteer fire/EMS) into the network, as part of the system.

Finally, the possibility of incorporating the CAD systems, AVL, etc., is hinted at as well.

For scanner users, I think the main thing that is important is that RCMP intends to be encrypted, along with a handful of other channels as far as I can tell; and the remainder will all be 700MHz P25 digital.

 

[electricsheep]

Thanks for the update Jay,
Actually I think I would be more surprised if the RCMP was not encrypted, since they are going to all the expense of a new system. I don't think many law enforcement agencies who are implementing new systems in the post 9/11 world are thinking unencrypted is such a good idea anymore.

 

[Jay911]

I don't like encryption for a few reasons.

1. One more thing to screw up. Listening to CPS both on the scanner and through "real" radios, I know that digital ain't great. I'm not impressed with its quality. Banff Fire/EMS technically is digital too, though it's converted by the satellite instead of the end radio. It, too, sounds horrible to me. As an end user, I *hate* the idea of a radio transmission where you either get it or you don't. With analog transmissions, I can listen and hold down the squelch button and all that, and eventually figure out what the transmission is. With digital, I get "----spatch, I need a BRAAAAAAAPDADADADADADADADADADADADADADAdunnnnnnn" on my scanner if it's a poor signal.

2. 99% of what is communicated over normal radio channels, even police radio channels, has no need to be protected. "Anyone up for Tango Hotel?" or "T-stop, green Honda Element, at exit 169 eastbound, marker ______" ... why is that vital to encrypt? I agree with CPS's current setup in this case. All of their special groups with sensitive comms (Tac Team, Strike Force, IROC, SHOP, etc) all encrypt. Regular police work doesn't.

3. Around here, Police rely heavily on scanner listeners to assist them in certain ways. There is a locale in this area where it is commonly known that almost EVERY household has a scanner with the RCMP freqs in it (and that is not an exaggeration). RCMP officers will routinely get on the air and say "Anyone out there in scannerland who's seen John Doe lately, give the detachment a call" or some such. Relations between the community and the RCMP are going to suffer if the community can't hear the RCMP.

Like I said, selective encryption, IMO, is the way to go. I wish I could convince others of that.

 

[johnspoon]

RCMP Encryption

Jay, I know some of the channels will be encrypted but I haven't heard that the complete RCMP system will be that way. If it is encrypted you can't patch the RCMP talk groups to an unencrypted group as that defeats the encryption security. At the G8 we had problems patching CPS and RCMP as we were encrypted and CPS was not. In the short term we created a unencrypted talk group for both groups that would allow patch. I suspect that tactical channels, co-ordinating channels will be fully encrypted but I question whether the main dispatch channel will. The system in Saskatchewan (P25 digitial ) and in Manitoba (P25 digital) have the main channels open but as above, all other channels encrypted. It will be interesting to see what happens, but we have several years before we see this change. The RCMP currently has 1000's of portables and when we ordered new radios for the G8 (1400) we had a wait of almost a year before receiving same (they used a few strings to get it in that short time period). I would hope that in 2007 all the groups would come to agreement on the system profile and then it would go out to bid late 2007 or earlier 2008. From past experience the earliest we could see the system would be late 2008 or early 2009. Winter time is not a good time to installing hundreds of more repeater sites. That's my two cents worth, time will only tell what the future brings.

 

[heinz_david]

So......... I am sitting on the fence regarding the purchase of a BCD996T. Currently I see a very large Alberta based iDen system in place. Will the move to an Apco25 system (700Mhz) actually occur, or will "they" remain on the iDen system? I am new to scanning so please be gentle........


Thanks !

 

[Jay911]

I've been putting the iDEN system in the database pieces at a time just for the sake of totality. It's the TELUS MiKE network; I don't expect anyone in the provincial government will stay on there once the new system comes on line. Alberta is fully committed to this new 700MHz P25 system; it will be used.

 

[heinz_david]

Great - My Visa card will sustain heavy damage on Monday. Thanks for your help.

 

[electricsheep]

AFRRCS what is known

AFRRCS known so far.

Contract will be awarded on July 3, 2008, with project commencement July 4, 2008.

AFRRCS will operate within a contiguous spectrum public safety frequency band within 700 MHz, and must conform to APCO P25 standards for digital trunked repeater/simplex operation. Unfortunately it must provide security for voice and data through Advanced Encryption Standards (see below).

Agencies/systems served, or expressing interest in being served so far: RCMP PACS, Government of Alberta MDMRS, Cities of Edmonton, Calgary, Medicine Hat and Lethbridge will all be "replacing" their current radio systems over the next several years starting in 2010. Add to this Solicitor General and Public Security
including correctional services, Transportation Safety Services Division, Municipal Affairs, Emergency Management Alberta, Sustainable Resource Development Fish and Wildlife Division, Tourism, Parks, Recreation and Culture, Environment

System will use end to end Advanced Encryption Standard (AES) to "Provide local police, fire and EMS the ability (without the concern of being monitored) to talk directly amongst themselves (police only, fire only, EMS only), communicate across agencies (for example between police and EMS, between fire and EMS), and communicate across jurisdictions (e.g. between RCMP and municipal police services and peace officers).

System will provide interoperability with both internal public safety agencies and police forces (e.g. Edmonton and Calgary Police) and bordering RCMP Divisions and United States Border Patrol.

 

[heinz_david]

Well - that sucks. No?

 

[electricsheep]

It's looking grim if they find a choose a vendor that sticks to the RFP... Not good at all.

 

[robertmac]

Can't say I blame them. As much as I love scanning, there are just a few too many people that abuse the right to have a scanner by saying and printing things that they hear over a scanner [which is unlawful in Canada]. As well, on another post, there are people that will use a scanner while taking part in unlawful activities. Unfortuanetly, these few people ruin it for the rest of us that just like to scan.

 

[Jay911]

I have to choose my words carefully, as I (like some others posting here) have a vested interest in the project. However, having said that, if the system goes full encryption for all public safety users, with no choice given to the end user, I will be disappointed and frankly surprised. There are a number of agencies I know about that answered the encryption questions in the survey simply to comply with the RCMP requirement for it - in other words, they'd need encryption only when talking to the RCMP. Then again, with the current FOIPP-happy thinking in this province, I'll bet the higher-ups see it as a win/win all around.

 

[masonb]

Awww now to wait for a revolution in scanners....

 

[newtoscanning]

Can you scan if they want you to?

Just out of curiosity?

I'm from ontario, the region I used to live in (durham) went to an iden network for their police a few years back, all of the media went ape sh*t because now they couldn't scan and get all the juicy stories, they went to council and asked for 'permitted scanners' that would be able to scan the iden network (I know not an actual scanner, probably just a portable that has the TX disables or something) The council considered it however the newspaper that was making the complaints wasn't very big and didn't have enough power so they turned the idea down.

What I'm wondering is what are the chances that large media outlets, and other 'scanner' people would have privileges to 'scan' the system using an issued tx inhibited portable as long as they paid for it. (I know there would be a huge debate over WHO was actually allowed to get one, but for argument sake say that was figured out)?

 

[Jay911]

For an iDEN system, I don't know, but it stands to reason they must have receive-only portables they can issue. For other systems, I guarantee it can be done; most Calgary media outlets have tx-inhibited portables generally issued by the police, with selected channels programmed (no tactical channels, nothing except main dispatch).

For a P25 system I'd have to say I would think it'd be possible too, considering the P25 hardware I'm aware of is identical to the equipment in use right now in Calgary.

For what it's worth, a committee has just finished evaluating the consortiums/groups/entities that intend to bid on the system. From what I hear, it now officially goes to RFP and bids are invited from the groups that were evaluated.

Lastly, I lived in Durham from 1976 to 1990, in the town of Brougham in north Pickering Where were you at?