Alberta Province Wide Radio: An Update

[kayn1n32008]

Any idea why the provience is going to 700Mhz rather than vhf or uhf? would it not take less infrastructure to cover the provience with a vhf or uhf P25 system than a 700 mhz system?

 

[Jay911]

VHF and UHF bands across the country are jammed full of all sorts of users. Right now there are no users on the 700MHz band (except the legacy TV channels 52-69, mostly in remote areas in the province). The intent has always been, IIRC, to clear all the TV users out of the 700MHz band, and hand it over exclusively to public safety comm systems. That was the plan in the US, and Canada hadn't made a decision yet, but the RCMP and Service Alberta successfully convinced Industry Canada to go that route.

As for infrastructure, the likelihood is that a telecoms company with already-established provincewide networks is going to get the nod for the job, so the construction phase for a sizable part of it will involve adding the P25/700 hardware to existing tower sites.

I'm hearing that vendor selection will finally come up within the next month or two. Construction should commence not long after, I'd think. Still, don't expect a functional system for a year or so after that.

 

[Jay911]

Something I mentioned yesterday in the post above made me think and take a look at the frequencies.

There are currently about 30 users of the 700MHz band in Alberta. There is one test system between Grande Prairie, Spruce Grove, and Whitecourt, that uses one frequency at low power for wireless communication testing. Global TV in Calgary has one very low power (0.25 W) license for one frequency for on-site comms which states in the license that they may be "relocated out of (this) band given a notice of not more than six months". The remaining licenses are all TV channels - 53 thru 59 and 65 - in various locations around the province, mostly as repeater stations for TV providers like CFCN Calgary, CFRN Edmonton, and CBC Calgary and Edmonton (etc). I would expect they will be encouraged to relocate once the AFRRCS gets the green light. I can recall CityTV in Toronto, back in the 80s when it was a single non-networked station, being moved by the CRTC off channel 79 and down to channel 57. Channel 79 happens to take up frequencies 860-866 in the high UHF band. Know anything that might be occupying that these days in Toronto?

Will post more details as they become available, as always...

 

[kayn1n32008]

So i take it it will be a system along the lines of Bell Fleetnet? I guess that makes sense then the responsibility of the network is not on the shoulders of the provience and their buricrats? thank god for that, atleast then they are not short changing the end users of the system over quality of the network vs. how little money they can spend to get a half assed system that might not work as intended. kinda like what happened with the C.R.E.S.T. system on vancouver island? makes sense to me. hpe that the provience goes with Telus for the infrastructure.

 

[kayn1n32008]

edit;
Bell being the company that maintains the system but here it will be which ever company operates it on 700Mhz rather than Vhf

 

[Jay911]

It will be something like Bell FleetNet, yes. I was involved in part of the pre-bid development and I'm bound by a non-disclosure agreement to say who all are involved in the bids, but someone who is familiar with modern wide area trunk systems in Canada and the USA should be able to guess fairly well. Once the vendor is announced, whenever that may be (rumored to be "September 2008" in a municipalities' association newsletter), a lot more can be said and discovered.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Sorry for the rant about buracrats, just have seen too many stories about systems that donot work properly, and it is the lives of the first responders that are on the line... i really hope that alberta gets a system that works properly, the first time and not a repeat of other systems like crest, ecomm ect. although i have not heard anything about fleetnet having issues...yet... glad to know that there are people like you that are giving an endusers perspective on what the provience should be looking at investing in.

 

[electricsheep]

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Alberta/2008/10/15/7094216.html

2012 kick off... Looks like my previous guess was close...

 

[electricsheep]

http://alberta.ca/home/NewsFrame.cf...2454100E9FD1F-E386-C89F-C02719192842AA7A.html

30,000 radios (?!) Yikes...

October 15, 2008
Province developing new radio system for emergency responders
30,000 radios will connect emergency responders in Alberta
Edmonton... The Alberta government is developing a new province-wide networked radio system that will connect more than 700 emergency responder and government agencies during serious incidents or natural disasters.



Construction of the new system is expected to begin in 2009 and be in use by 2012.



“This is another example of our government’s commitment to the safety and security of our communities,” says Premier Ed Stelmach. “This is more than an investment in technology. It’s an investment in the people and the organizations Albertans count on during an emergency. As our province grows we will continue to meet the needs of all Albertans.”



“It is essential that those responsible for keeping Albertans safe have the right tools”, said Fred Lindsay, Solicitor General and Minister of Public Security. “This new radio system will allow a more coordinated response by emergency responders and government agencies to serious situations that put Albertans’ lives and properties at risk.”



Currently, emergency responders and government agencies operate standalone radio systems. The new system will allow police, fire fighters, emergency medical services, and provincial agencies to communicate seamlessly with one another to coordinate their response in the event of a natural disaster or serious incident.



“The RCMP applauds any and all efforts to improve interoperability among Alberta's first responders," said Deputy Commissioner Rod Knecht, Commanding Officer for RCMP "K" Division. "This new radio system will improve the communications capacity and safety of those uniformed personnel who are first to arrive at the scene of an incident."



Emergency response agencies across the province are involved in ongoing consultations to develop this new radio system. A request for proposals to build the new system will be issued today.



-30-

 

[Jay911]

RFP to be issued today ??? Interesting claim. I've pinged my sources and will see what bounces back.

Thirty thousand radios almost sounds like a small number to me, to tell you the truth. How many Mounties are there? One mobile per car and one portable per (on-duty) member...?

P25 can handle a stupefying amount of radios and talkgroups.. it's not limited to 65520 and 4095 like Smartzone is. Maybe the 30,000 amount is for the radios that the government agencies and the RCMP (who "have" to be on the system) will be using.

As for the 2012 operational date, the way I understood it in the early stages of the development plan was, it would roll out in stages, kind of like how Ontario's FleetNet did. As sections are built and completed, the agencies in those areas will go live.. I'd suspect the 2012 date is for full 100% completion province-wide.

I also find it interesting that the AFRRCS acronym is totally absent from the press release. They wanted a different name for the thing from day one... maybe they'll have a contest to pick a name.

 

[fredburgess]

In the papers and on the news

It was in the Calgary Herald, and Calgary Sun, plus CHQR770 wesite, that this radio system is in the works. As sted in an Edmonton paper, the project should start this summer of 2009. CFD is already purchasing the new radios. I wonder in 2012, if they will still be using 800 Mhz?
Fred Burgess

Hi folks,




learned some things about the province-wide radio project today.

It is going to happen. No matter what you heard from your cousin's best friend's neighbor's gardener who happened to know somebody who unlocked the gate for the tech at tower site XYZ. This is well underway at this point.

The current descriptor is the Alberta First Responders' Radio Communications System, or AFRRCS. Don't expect that name to stick - I hear it's not very favored. I pronounce it "a-farks" but to each their own.

The driving force is the Alberta Office of the Solicitor General and Service Alberta (formerly Restructuring & Government Efficiency). They're handling it mainly because the two radio systems that need help the most - MDMRS and PACS - fall into their areas of control.

The timeline for total system completion is end of 2010 at the latest. The dates are still fuzzy, of course - things are still in the incipient phases, even if they are late in the incipient phases - but construction is scheduled to begin in October 2007 and take 3 years. Also, for what it's worth, the system is intended to last for 15 years from the time of deployment.

It will be 700MHz and will be P25. That is the standard that the provincial overseers are mandating in the tender/RFP/whatever you wish to call it.

There will be some encryption. Participants in the system are having their interests represented by filling out a "Needs Survey" in which they describe their communications requirements and interoperability issues. Encryption is offered at every turn in this survey.

We will likely see some sites roll out by the end of this year. The gist I am getting is that migration will be similar to how Ontario is doing it with ON FleetNet - in phases/zones. I would expect that larger areas may be developed first, with major transportation corridors following - because as I said, this is intended to first and foremost replace MDMRS and PACS, and MDMRS is all but on life support right now, and PACS reportedly can last just long enough for this new system to come online.

There is supposed to be a website set up shortly detailing the progress. I'm not sure if it's intended for public consumption or just the partner agencies involved in the system; as most of you know, I work with a couple of said partner agencies, so I have to be careful what exactly I pass around, so to speak. If information crosses me that is meant for the world to hear about, I'll contribute it.

 

[Jay911]

It was indeed mentioned in the papers and media (yesterday) October 15. Oddly enough, especially considering they've had the list of pre-qualified vendors for most of this year, they're just now releasing the RFP (Request for Proposal) to the vendors. Personally, I don't expect this step to take very long, but considering how long it's been to get this far, anything is possible. The pre-qualification information was pretty much an RFP in and of itself.

I spoke to a person at Service Alberta/Solicitor General's office today. The RFP has been released now and they will not pick/announce the winning vendor until 2009. I am not convinced that construction will not start until "summer 2009"... given the vendors involved, I wouldn't be surprised if "construction", or at least the blueprinting process if you will, is already well underway.

The radios that CFD have already purchased are indeed compatible with the new system, so long as it remains a pure P25 system. The modern radios that are used on the Calgary Motorola Smartzone system can handle 700MHz P25 regardless of what vendor markets it, so long as they don't add weird proprietary extras like ESK, OpenSky, etc.

More info, as always, as it becomes available.......

 

[saveyaris]

http://www.globaltv.com/globaltv/calgary/story.html?id=9ac64a8f-4cb3-470f-abd8-49a7f7ce1157

"There are four vendors bidding for the project."

 

[torontokris]

I hope that they dont go Opensky etc etc

so that hey dont have to buy all new radios... ya thats it =)

The modern radios that are used on the Calgary Motorola Smartzone system can handle 700MHz P25 regardless of what vendor markets it, so long as they don't add weird proprietary extras like ESK, OpenSky, etc.

More info, as always, as it becomes available.......

 

[Jay911]

I can't name the vendors because I personally participated in the Pre-Qualification process that permitted the four vendors to proceed to this stage, and there is a non-disclosure agreement in place. It shouldn't be hard to guess, though.

You can be pretty confident that things like OpenSky or other proprietary things won't get into the equation. The design of the system, according to the rules the vendors are expected to follow, is a pure 700MHz P25 system, with a specific clause stating that the system must function using any vendor's equipment. That means any P25 radio, be it Motorola, M/A-COM, Kenwood, Fisher-Price, or whatever, must be able to connect to the network. If any proprietary "bells and whistles" are put on the AFRRCS, it won't support someone's radio - in other words if ESK is employed (not saying that it's technologically feasible - just using an example), Motorola and Kenwood radios won't work, because ESK is a M/A-COM tidbit. P25 is an official standard and you should be able to get onto it with any radio you want (legally, of course).

As for whether or not CFD will still be on 800 in 2012, it remains to be seen. The Calgary digital radio system is going to be on its last legs by then, but as I mentioned earlier, I am fairly convinced that elements of the system - probably around the larger population centers - will be online and operational long before 2012.

The radios that CFD (and other agencies like Calgary EMS, CPS, Rocky View Fire Services, and others in the area) have recently equipped are Motorola XTS portables and XTL mobiles. These function on the Calgary system now on 800MHz, in 3600bps Smartzone mode with mixed analog/digital modes, and can work on 700MHz 9600bps P25 systems with no upgrades required - just reprogramming to add the new system. In fact, it's possible to program both systems into the radio at once.

Last - it's possible to have multiple sites in a networked trunk system like a SmartZone system or other networked systems where some sites are of different frequency bands than others. This was present in 2002 during the G8 conference in Kananaskis, where the Calgary radio system was on its 800MHz frequencies and the four extra sites (the RCMP system that was tacked on temporarily, which is most likely sysid 7520 shown in the Ontario section of the DB today) were 400MHz. So, it would be entirely possible for Calgary's 800 system to remain in place and become six sites of the new 700 system, but doubtful, as it would require all radios to be both 700 and 800 capable, something I'm not sure every vendor offers (and which might be viewed as a variance from the P25 standard, much like ESK etc. mentioned above).

My earlier post was cut short because I was at work and in the middle of something. To sum up what I learned today from SGPS, the vendor has not been selected yet, and in fact the RFP was just released yesterday, October 15. On a side note, if anyone knows where the RFPs and tenders are published by the Alberta government, please post a link - I and others have been unsuccessful in finding any postings. Finally, the person I spoke to at SGPS confirmed that there will eventually be "a web presence" for AFRRCS, so eventually we may see a website that can tell everyone what is going on, straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

 

[Trexer]

http://vendor.purchasingconnection.ca/default.aspx

 

[Jay911]

There we are! It wasn't posted till this afternoon/evening.

The four vendors are mentioned in the RFP. They are, in alphabetical order:

Bell Mobility Inc.
General Dynamics Canada Ltd.
Raytheon Canada Limited
TELUS

(All four vendors are consortiums that include, besides the primary vendors, sub-contractors including radio manufacturers, network and infrastructure specialists, etc.)

The RFP will close at 2PM MST on February 18 2009.

 

[Jay911]

Interestingly, the province has a preferred order of deployment/build for the system, but is willing to entertain other ideas from the vendors/bidders, if they can show good reason.

Naturally they want Edmonton to be first. It's listed as a "prototype test" design, but yeah.

The deployment goes on from there via census districts. They're available on Wikipedia and thru Google searching. For example, Calgary/MD Rockyview/MD Foothills/Mountain View County is Census District 6. Edson/Yellowhead County is Census District 14. And Edmonton/Brazeau County/Leduc County/Parkland County/Strathcona County/Sturgeon County/Wetaskiwin County is Census District 11.

There is also mention in the RFP about encrypting the control channel. I hope that falls by the wayside. I really do.

 

[SCPD]

There we are! It wasn't posted till this afternoon/evening.

The four vendors are mentioned in the RFP. They are, in alphabetical order:

Bell Mobility Inc.
General Dynamics Canada Ltd.
General Dynamics Canada Ltd
TELUS

(All four vendors are consortiums that include, besides the primary vendors, sub-contractors including radio manufacturers, network and infrastructure specialists, etc.)

The RFP will close at 2PM MST on February 18 2009.

For months now all four vendors have been very busy talking with sub-contractors (Radio Manufacturers, network specialists...) working on partnerships for the bid I.E. Telus and Bell with Motorola then Motorola with company X in Fort McMurry and Edmonton..................

I am thinking Telus has the slight edge, they already have strong partnership with Motorola, have a fully meshed province wide data network and experience with large radio systems.

Bell a bunch of drunk'n sailors, what can I say, SUCK!!!!

General Dynamics Canada Ltd or GE Canada are heavy in to Military or DND / Transport Canada nav/atc/radio systems, why they entered this race, I suspect they are front end for some group of radio companies in Alberta. I'm thinking the Calgary office will handle this bid.

Raytheon Canada Limited, could take it. Raytheon Canada Limited was just awarded the ATCO P25 province wide project. Partner up with Ma-Comm or Kenwood could make this race a good one.

I guess we wait and see,

 

[Jay911]

New thread to be posted with strictly info on the network. Discussion about the system can be split off into other threads.