Amateur radio and out-of-band transmit in the news

[KG4DCX]

Easier to ask forgiveness then permission
Do what needs to be done in emergency

 

[mmckenna]

The story is not from the ARRL. It's from Amateur Radio Newsline which is not owned nor managed by the ARRL. The ARRL was not mentioned in the article.

True, thanks for the correction. But from my experience, they sort of walk the same path.

 

[mmckenna]

In a disaster ANY radio can be used, lives are at stake, who cares about whether its part 90 or not. Jesus! get a grip people!

In a true emergency, I'd do the same thing. I wouldn't advertise it, though.

 

[tweiss3]

Easier to ask forgiveness then permission
Do what needs to be done in emergency

True, but they outted the person that modified the radio, so now there is someone to go after.

In a true emergency, I'd do the same thing. I wouldn't advertise it, though.

Exactly. Shouldn't have mentioned a name or call sign and just left it at "spare radio was provided to the Chief by a local ham". Vague is better in these cases.

 

[mmckenna]

Exactly. Shouldn't have mentioned a name or call sign and just left it at "spare radio was provided to the Chief by a local ham". Vague is better in these cases.

Yeah, that's what makes me think about the ham horn tooting without understanding the issues.

Not a concern for me, I ditched all my non-Part 90 gear years ago. The agency I work for has many back up resources, and all the interop simplex frequencies in their radios.
I suspect that if the fire department had those in their radios, but insufficient training lead them to think they had no other options.

 

[MTS2000des]

I think the takeaway that many in public safety communications (meaning paid careers not Randy Rescue whackers with vests, bandolero of Baoturds and flashing lights) have is that this heir of whackerism reeks from articles like this where "ham radio saves the day" and, truth is, that just isn't the case. Using unauthorized equipment installed by hobbyists in a public safety implementation is a tremendous liability and no ARRL lawyer or forum poster is going to represent one when it goes wrong.

As someone who's been called to answer officially in incidents where persons got an on the job injury to an OSHA investigator, let me tell you it is no fun but having done everything RIGHT with DOCUMENTATION, radio performance was eliminated in that case. I can only see Randy Rescue wanna-be with his "MARS CAP" (courtesy of professional ham dealer here) stuttering when sitting in an interview with OSHA, or worse yet in a court room. Have fun hiring lawyers at $250-500 an hour, just to start than getting a judgment handed down. Was playing hero really worth the risk?

Leave the professional work to those who are professionals. Ham radio is a GREAT hobby and can be tremendous fun without the whacking. Articles like this remind me how good it is to work for an agency that would NEVER allow some untrained, non-certified hobbyist to install toy radios in fire trucks. Please spare the rhetoric about "that's all they have" as this isn't an acceptable answer. As was mentioned, plenty of part 90 VHF/UHF conventional radios on the surplus market or hell, a mutual aid request should be the FIRST step to getting assistance with such and it should be through the local EMA to the state or even an EMAC request and have COM-T and COM-Ls with proper training, equipment and support.

Must be a different world out there.

 

[mmckenna]

Must be a different world out there.

It's a small department, and not a lot of resources. They are running an OES engine, so they would have had the correct radios and support. I suspect there is a lot of details we don't know.

 

[mmckenna]

ARRL hate by mmckenna? No, but there is honest critique.

Yeah, I don't 'hate' the ARRL. Based on their EMCOMM thing, and working for an agency, I sort of lost some respect for them and chose to spend my money elsewhere. They've built up the EMCOMM thing quite a bit, but rarely go beyond the "Go bag" attitude. Good emergency communications should include understanding what other groups capabilities are. I've never seen that from the ARRL, they just keep harping on the "when all else fails" thing. Within the public safety radio field, there's a bit of a different view of this stuff, and it's not what the ARRL wants you to think. I would do hams some good to take a step back and learn about how the rest of the industry works.

 

[GROL]

That's a Vertex radio and Vertex is now owned by Motorola Solutions. I believe you found an archived page on Yaesu's website. Here's the VX-P920 page on Motorola's website: VX-P920 - Motorola Solutions

Maybe it is an old page, but the radio was at one time Yaesu. We have no idea what radio they are referring to in the article. Yaesu was mentioned. Was it a Yaesu radio that is Part 90? Or really not even a Yaesu radio at all, and if it was a non part 90 radio, that is the FCC's business to address and would they really want to considering the situation? What would be the goal to fine them if they did use non Part 90 radios? I am sure there are tons of volunteer firefighters using cheaper Amateur radio handhelds on fire frequencies. That is not as much an issue as the Chinese junk being sold as Amateur radios with lots of spurious transmissions.

 

[GROL]

Please provide a reference to the FCC rule that says that non-Part 90 radios can be used in Part 90 during an emergency.

Pretty sure he wasn't suggesting it was a rule, but it sure is common sense. The FCC can take action as they see fit after the event.

 

[GROL]

Yeah, I don't 'hate' the ARRL. Based on their EMCOMM thing, and working for an agency, I sort of lost some respect for them and chose to spend my money elsewhere. They've built up the EMCOMM thing quite a bit, but rarely go beyond the "Go bag" attitude. Good emergency communications should include understanding what other groups capabilities are. I've never seen that from the ARRL, they just keep harping on the "when all else fails" thing. Within the public safety radio field, there's a bit of a different view of this stuff, and it's not what the ARRL wants you to think. I would do hams some good to take a step back and learn about how the rest of the industry works.

ARRL organized Amateur Radio volunteers that deployed during Hurricane Maria aftermath in 2017. That was way more than beyond a Go Bag.

Ham radio operators are saving Puerto Rico one transmission at a time | CNN

When Hurricane Maria knocked out power and phone services, volunteer "ham" radio operators lept into action to support rescue and recovery communications.

www.cnn.com

“Force of 50” Amateur Radio Volunteers Deploying Throughout Puerto Rico

The American Radio Relay League (ARRL) is the national association for amateur radio, connecting hams around the U.S. with news, information and resources.

www.arrl.org

Amateur Radio is frequently imbedded with the Red Cross.

ARRL, American Red Cross Renew Memorandum of Understanding

The American Radio Relay League (ARRL) is the national association for amateur radio, connecting hams around the U.S. with news, information and resources.

www.arrl.org

9/11 Augmentation

Remembering the World Trade Center - September 11, 2001

www.nyc-arecs.org

ARES

The American Radio Relay League (ARRL) is the national association for amateur radio, connecting hams around the U.S. with news, information and resources.

www.arrl.org

 

[KE8ANU]

Maybe new replacement radios are on back order due to the chip shortage that is effecting a lot of different markets like automobiles, new radio equipment, new computer equipment, appliances, etc.

 

[dlwtrunked]

ARRL organized Amateur Radio volunteers that deployed during Hurricane Maria aftermath in 2017. That was way more than beyond a Go Bag.

Ham radio operators are saving Puerto Rico one transmission at a time | CNN

When Hurricane Maria knocked out power and phone services, volunteer "ham" radio operators lept into action to support rescue and recovery communications.

www.cnn.com

“Force of 50” Amateur Radio Volunteers Deploying Throughout Puerto Rico

The American Radio Relay League (ARRL) is the national association for amateur radio, connecting hams around the U.S. with news, information and resources.

www.arrl.org

Amateur Radio is frequently imbedded with the Red Cross.

ARRL, American Red Cross Renew Memorandum of Understanding

The American Radio Relay League (ARRL) is the national association for amateur radio, connecting hams around the U.S. with news, information and resources.

www.arrl.org

9/11 Augmentation

Remembering the World Trade Center - September 11, 2001

www.nyc-arecs.org

ARES

The American Radio Relay League (ARRL) is the national association for amateur radio, connecting hams around the U.S. with news, information and resources.

www.arrl.org

And, at the Pentagon, providing communications for the supply lines for food etc. to the Red Cross stations aiding the recovery effort. A ggod number of us were there (39 1/2 hours total on my part) many hours (that often went from mid-morning until after mid-night due to in/out security transportation and coordination). Think we were not needed? When the Army (I was a civilian employee at another base at the time who took leave) found out what I was doing, my leave was rescinded and I was assigned until no longer needed (the extra pay, after consulting the FCC, was donated to the Red Cross to meet no profit from ham radio rules). Cell phone system was overloaded until several days afterwards when a portable site then arrived, and we were able to leave. (Best lesson learned: Any plan made in advance would not have helped and would likely have been far worse than improvising as needed. ) Some (most?) here really have not been at a real large scale emergency situation and only think their preparations will handle it. If you have not been to something like 911, a large flood, a significant hurricane, a major tornado, you really do not know how amateur radio plays (or can play) a significant role and are really speaking outside of experience. yes, many parts of the country are lucky not to experience such.

 

[DeoVindice]

Maybe new replacement radios are on back order due to the chip shortage that is effecting a lot of different markets like automobiles, new radio equipment, new computer equipment, appliances, etc.

Remind me again how hard it is to source surplus VHF radios?

 

[GROL]

And, at the Pentagon, providing communications for the supply lines for food etc. to the Red Cross stations aiding the recovery effort. A ggod number of us were there (39 1/2 hours total on my part) many hours (that often went from mid-morning until after mid-night due to in/out security transportation and coordination). Think we were not needed? When the Army (I was a civilian employee at another base at the time who took leave) found out what I was doing, my leave was rescinded and I was assigned until no longer needed (the extra pay, after consulting the FCC, was donated to the Red Cross to meet no profit from ham radio rules). Cell phone system was overloaded until several days afterwards when a portable site then arrived, and we were able to leave. (Best lesson learned: Any plan made in advance would not have helped and would likely have been far worse than improvising as needed. ) Some (most?) here really have not been at a real large scale emergency situation and only think their preparations will handle it. If you have not been to something like 911, a large flood, a significant hurricane, a major tornado, you really do not know how amateur radio plays (or can play) a significant role and are really speaking outside of experience. yes, many parts of the country are lucky not to experience such.

Thank you for your service during 9/11. In the Air National Guard I have served in Hurricane recovery with FEMA and I know some of what you are talking about. I can say that all my training did allow me to be flexible and creative. Long days! FEMA needed us to install lots of comm equipment and even satellite TV. The floods from Hurricane Floyd in 1999 killed massive amounts of livestock and I will never forget the smell of dead livestock all over the Wilmington NC area. I was located in an old unused Armory that was in very bad repair. Lots of generator deployments to shelters and nursing homes. During 9/11 I was on standby for deployment while shipping all sorts of equipment and materials for sustainment and communications. No one really knew exactly what was going to be needed.

 

[GROL]

Remind me again how hard it is to source surplus VHF radios?

Not sure, how hard is it?

 

[DeoVindice]

Not sure, how hard is it?

Call up any number of dealers or shops. Throwing some older Kenwoods on their system isn't exactly difficult. Using modified ham gear implies it's an analog system.

 

[GROL]

Call up any number of dealers or shops. Throwing some older Kenwoods on their system isn't exactly difficult. Using modified ham gear implies it's an analog system.

Doesn't that take a few days? Did they have that much time? We don't know. The article didn't have that much detail. Wasn't it an urgent situation?

 

[mmckenna]

Maybe it is an old page, but the radio was at one time Yaesu.

The Yaesu, Vertex-Standard, Yaesu-Musen, Standard-Horizon, Motorola thing is a long story. I won't dive into it here since it really doesn't matter since the article clearly stated:

"one of the net's members, said that modified 2-meter radios had to be installed in the fire chief's vehicle for backup and at the firehouse crew's quarters. Mark said the Yaesu radio was modified by Ron NB6X to operate on fire department frequencies"​

 

[GlobalNorth]

Here is the counter-point to the ARRL video that is self congratulatory. Note that they are from the ARRL themselves and few organizations are objective when promoting their own efforts.

HRN 359, EmComm Extra #18: Force of Two — HamRadioNow

Can you tell the complete story of ham radio in the recovery effort on Puerto Rico following hurricanes Irma and Maria in two and a half hours?

www.hamradionow.tv

If ARRL was as great in PR as they say, why was the government of PR not more laudatory about their efforts?