American Electric Power (AEP) P25 WACN 92715

[lwvmobile]

Wow that is sweet! I've never seen that on any P25 system/site that I've ever monitored. Very cool.

I went back and looked at your samples, I was able to pull some off of it as well. Here is a few I cherry picked out.

12:21:12        P25p2 SACCH  MAC_ACTIVE
 VCH 0 - TG 2222 SRC 2006701  Circuit Priority 4 Group Voice
 P25 PDU Payload
  [80][01][04][08][AE][1E][9E][AD][00][00][00][00]
  [00][00][00][00][00][00][00][00][00][AD][20][00]

12:21:12        P25p2 SACCH  MAC_ACTIVE
 MFID A4 (Harris); VCH 0 Caller Alias:  OH6701       
 P25 PDU Payload
  [80][A8][A4][11][4F][48][36][37][30][31][00][00]
  [00][00][00][00][00][00][00][00][00][73][C0][00]

12:24:22        P25p2 SACCH  MAC_ACTIVE
 VCH 0 - TG 2222 SRC 2003470  Circuit Priority 4 Group Voice
 P25 PDU Payload
  [84][01][04][08][AE][1E][92][0E][00][00][00][00]
  [00][00][00][00][00][00][00][00][00][1D][D0][00]

12:24:23        P25p2 SACCH  MAC_ACTIVE
 MFID A4 (Harris); VCH 0 Caller Alias:  OH3470       
 P25 PDU Payload
  [84][A8][A4][11][4F][48][33][34][37][30][00][00]
  [00][00][00][00][00][00][00][00][00][43][C0][00]

12:27:33        P25p2 SACCH  MAC_ACTIVE
 VCH 0 - TG 2004 SRC 2008144  Circuit Priority 4 Group Voice
 P25 PDU Payload
  [8C][01][04][07][D4][1E][A4][50][00][00][00][00]
  [00][00][00][00][00][00][00][00][00][4E][C0][00]

12:27:32        P25p2 SACCH  MAC_ACTIVE
 MFID A4 (Harris); VCH 0 Caller Alias:  OH8144       
 P25 PDU Payload
  [8C][A8][A4][11][4F][48][38][31][34][34][00][00]
  [00][00][00][00][00][00][00][00][00][A0][A0][00]

The general theme seems to be an abbreviation of the group/location, and then the last 4 of the RID. All but Dunbar-S seems to follow that theme so far, anyways.

 

[slayer816]

55.55 is the power plant

66.66 is the main offices/maintenance base

The others are support sites which on the weekend wouldn't have much activity. This was done at random but I wonder if next time I can get some samples from certain sites at certain times... it may be more helpful to you.

 

[lwvmobile]

The others are support sites which on the weekend wouldn't have much activity. This was done at random but I wonder if next time I can get some samples from certain sites at certain times... it may be more helpful to you.

What you've provided today has been very helpful, most importantly, I learned that Quinton and Valerie talk on site 66
But its also good to have something in the clear to compare to Duke Energy, since its mostly all AES enc, its not something I tend to park on for a long period of time and work on the details of, but if I hadn't gotten these samples today, I wouldn't have realized they also use the caller alias as well.

15:56:34        P25p2 SACCH  MAC_ACTIVE
 MFID A4 (Harris); VCH 1 Caller Alias: Quinton-7003
 
15:58:32        P25p2 SACCH  MAC_ACTIVE
 MFID A4 (Harris); VCH 1 Caller Alias: Valerie

 

[rattlerbb01]

Set up shop in Marshall, TX for a week or so here. Added two frequencies to Marshall and see a new neighboring site, 1F9-61.61 on 855.0125. Looks to be Big Sandy possibly on WPUB748. May be able to confirm one of these days, its about 30 minutes down the road but I just need to get close enough to decode and match frequencies and get a neighbor list.

 

[redbeard]

FWIW I tested the new DSD+ and getting talker aliases for radios on the system as they talk. Seems the format here at least is SSuuuu which is two letter State and 4 digit unit ID that seems to match the last 4 of the P25 ID. (OH8104 for example)

 

[mtindor]

FWIW I tested the new DSD+ and getting talker aliases for radios on the system as they talk. Seems the format here at least is SSuuuu which is two letter State and 4 digit unit ID that seems to match the last 4 of the P25 ID. (OH8104 for example)

Yeah, kind of sucks. Nothing descriptive enough to determine territory. I used to know what ## prefixes were used out of Carrollton and the smaller areas but forgot. The 34xx are Steubenville and pretty sure the 80xx and 81xx are out of Canton area.

I wish those aliases were more descriptive like they are on Duke, but watcha gonna do.

 

[nd5y]

AEP application for off-network talkaround and temporary vehicle mounted repeaters.

ULS Application - Business/Industrial/Land Trans, 809-824/854-869 MHz, Conv. - 0010577631 - American Electric Power Service Corporation

Read the waiver attachment.

 

[N5KGN]

Last year, I got a second Bluetail p25rx-II to listen to the AEP-SWEPCO traffic in NE Texas, (Specifically the Longview area). after they converted to the Harris TDMC CC system. It took me quite a while to finally arrive at all the necessary settings to get it to work. Seemed like they would change something, every day or two, but it finally was stable and I began to collect talkgroups and frequencies.

Then, around the first of this year, it all went tits up. I don't get anything that looks like a control channel, and very rarely I see any sign of traffic in the TGLog. Did they go to some configuration that the Bluetail won't handle...did they encrypt their channels? I'm stumped.

If anyone has an idea of what went wrong, I would sure appreciate input. I really miss listening to the crews at work!

BTW, fearing that something was wrong with the BT, I reconfigured it for a Moto Phase 2 system in the area and it worked fine.

 

[nd5y]

I don't get anything that looks like a control channel,

Did you search the band for new CCs?
Did you check for new or modified licenses with different frequencies or changed locations?

 

[mtindor]

Last year, I got a second Bluetail p25rx-II to listen to the AEP-SWEPCO traffic in NE Texas, (Specifically the Longview area). after they converted to the Harris TDMC CC system. It took me quite a while to finally arrive at all the necessary settings to get it to work. Seemed like they would change something, every day or two, but it finally was stable and I began to collect talkgroups and frequencies.

Then, around the first of this year, it all went tits up. I don't get anything that looks like a control channel, and very rarely I see any sign of traffic in the TGLog. Did they go to some configuration that the Bluetail won't handle...did they encrypt their channels? I'm stumped.

If anyone has an idea of what went wrong, I would sure appreciate input. I really miss listening to the crews at work!

BTW, fearing that something was wrong with the BT, I reconfigured it for a Moto Phase 2 system in the area and it worked fine.

Longview
855.5375 *
855.9125 *
856.8125 *
857.9125 *
859.3375
860.2875
860.3875

Check those last three frequencies for a control channel if you can't find one on the first four. When the site first came online and data was submitted to the DB, the only frequencies reported in use at that time were the first four. As @nd5y suggests, the control channel lineup may have simply changed.

 

[N5KGN]

Did you search the band for new CCs?
Did you check for new or modified licenses with different frequencies or changed locations?

Yes and Yes. I kept getting a "P25 V" report when I would test the frequencies in the "Search DB" tab. Today, I switched the mode to P25 conventional for a while, since the test report seemed to indicate it was conventional. I didn't get any hits. That was worse, as I got occasional hits while set on TDMA before...just no audio. I was getting what looked like sync on the vectorscope, although it was not showing sync on the graph.

Later, I switched it back to TDMA and it got sync within two minutes, and has not lost sync since. I'm now getting hits again, but still no audio. Perhaps them suckers have gone encrypted!

 

[N5KGN]

Longview
855.5375 *
855.9125 *
856.8125 *
857.9125 *
859.3375
860.2875
860.3875

Check those last three frequencies for a control channel if you can't find one on the first four. When the site first came online and data was submitted to the DB, the only frequencies reported in use at that time were the first four. As @nd5y suggests, the control channel lineup may have simply changed.

I had all those frequencies, as well as a couple of others, (neighbors). This system has a weird habit of switching control channels rapidly...at least when I was receiving it well. The funny thing is, that sometimes I can hear a control channel signal on 856.8125 even if the Bluetail does not recognize it. They were so much fun to listen to when they had EDACS!

 

[mtindor]

I had all those frequencies, as well as a couple of others, (neighbors). This system has a weird habit of switching control channels rapidly...at least when I was receiving it well. The funny thing is, that sometimes I can hear a control channel signal on 856.8125 even if the Bluetail does not recognize it. They were so much fun to listen to when they had EDACS!

I doubt that they went ENC. And from what you say about it taking 2 minutes to sync, something is wrong. Probably weak signal or interference. Or maybe something needs done with the BTT (like a firmware update). No reason you shouldn't be able to reliably and consistently copy the control channel with the BTT. As far as traffic goes, if it's like the sites up here in Ohio there isn't much going on if there isn't inclement weather.

 

[slayer816]

If it helps...

SWEPCO (AEP Louisiana) went from a few CC's per site to 5-6 and the range is limited for SDR use. Now I can only hit them from across town (SDR and SDS100 CC checking on conventional).

Even in daytime non-storm weather theyll have one talkgroup for trouble calls/linemen calls. I saw a harris radio the other day so I'm working on that part of it. But as far as signal goes, range on non-user receive only radios (scanner, RTL-SDR, etc) seems to be way less than before (I went to Longview last year and did some sluthing on that system and it was indeed buzzing with decent range like NWLA used to be. I suspect the same thing happened there but I haven't been back to check.

 

[N5KGN]

Well, after a week of intense monitoring and research, I've come to the following conclusions. I agree that they will sometimes run more than one CC, but of late it's more like one, with the sync switched on when needed. I don't know if they do this by completely switching off the sync signal, or some sort of power reduction. Sometimes I can hear what sounds like the CC signal in conventional FM on a handheld scanner, but there will be no sync on any frequency assigned to AEP. It may go days with nothing, then suddenly a freq gets sync and it goes to town for a day or so, then off again. When I get good sync, the signal is appx -92dB SNR.
My conclusion is, that the Harris radio system is so versatile, that they let it switch from one mode to another as they need. I've been told they use the cellular function from time to time, so that might be when the CC disappears.
In the meantime, I have another BT monitoring a P25 Phase II system, (Moto), that rarely has a hiccup. When I began to have problems with AEP, I set that BT up to monitor the same P25 system and it performed flawlessly for several weeks, eliminating any hardware/software problem.
So, I am convinced that AEP is a sort of "renegade" system, as far as P25 systems go.
Thanks to all who tried to help!

 

[mtindor]

Well, after a week of intense monitoring and research, I've come to the following conclusions. I agree that they will sometimes run more than one CC, but of late it's more like one, with the sync switched on when needed. I don't know if they do this by completely switching off the sync signal, or some sort of power reduction. Sometimes I can hear what sounds like the CC signal in conventional FM on a handheld scanner, but there will be no sync on any frequency assigned to AEP. It may go days with nothing, then suddenly a freq gets sync and it goes to town for a day or so, then off again. When I get good sync, the signal is appx -92dB SNR.
My conclusion is, that the Harris radio system is so versatile, that they let it switch from one mode to another as they need. I've been told they use the cellular function from time to time, so that might be when the CC disappears.
In the meantime, I have another BT monitoring a P25 Phase II system, (Moto), that rarely has a hiccup. When I began to have problems with AEP, I set that BT up to monitor the same P25 system and it performed flawlessly for several weeks, eliminating any hardware/software problem.
So, I am convinced that AEP is a sort of "renegade" system, as far as P25 systems go.
Thanks to all who tried to help!

They don't run more than one CC at a time. They may switch CCs for various reasons. If you aren't getting sync, either (a) it's a weak signal, (b) you have interference or (c) it's not a CC but perhaps rather a Hi-Velocity channel. A Hi-Velocity channel is wideband (like 25 khz or something like that) and used for data.

-92db SNR isn't anything to write home about.

AEP sites in Texas are all P25 Phase II with TDMA control channels.

 

[saioke]

So the AEP RR page states that they're using Phase 2. However, I've come to realize that my Whistler 1065 can still detect the CCs in my county and seem to register trunking data despite being a phase 1 scanner. Is that always the case? Or, are there still AEP sites out there that still use phase 1?

 

[BigLebowski]

So the AEP RR page states that they're using Phase 2. However, I've come to realize that my Whistler 1065 can still detect the CCs in my county and seem to register trunking data despite being a phase 1 scanner. Is that always the case? Or, are there still AEP sites out there that still use phase 1?

The control channel on most Phase 2 systems is still Phase 1. AEP is capable of a Phase 2 control channel but it’s not in use in many places.

 

[mtindor]

So the AEP RR page states that they're using Phase 2. However, I've come to realize that my Whistler 1065 can still detect the CCs in my county and seem to register trunking data despite being a phase 1 scanner. Is that always the case? Or, are there still AEP sites out there that still use phase 1?

If you look in the database, the sites marked with a T mean, they have a TDMA control channel. All of the sites are phase 2 P25, and in most places they have a TDMA control channel. AEP, Ohio and Appalachian power are two parts of the system that are predominantly FDMA control channel. So you can pick up those sites with your scanner in Ohio and West Virginia.

 

[saioke]

Attach files

If you look in the database, the sites marked with a T mean, they have a TDMA control channel. All of the sites are phase 2 P25, and in most places they have a TDMA control channel. AEP, Ohio and Appalachian power are two parts of the system that are predominantly FDMA control channel. So you can pick up those sites with your scanner in Ohio and West Virginia.

Nice! I wondered whether TDMA = phase 2 and FDMA = phase 1. All this time I just assumed I wouldn't be able to pick them up. Appreciate the responses, thanks!