Anderson and Knox Counties

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atomictaco911

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I am new to the modern scanners and have been thinking about getting one. I have spent hours reading on the various systems and scanners and am more confused. Some systems in my area are encrypted but most don't appear to be. I have read posts and articles saying some scanners can be programmed to decode the encryption and others saying the opposite. I have access to a active radio, can the encryption key be pulled up on that radio and programmed into a scanner to listen to that department? What would be the best scanners for East TN? I know some agencies are P25 1 others P25 2 some TACN. I'm still trying to research but the game has changed a lot in the past 20-30 years.
 

Whiskey3JMC

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I have read posts and articles saying some scanners can be programmed to decode the encryption and others saying the opposite.
Scanners can decode digital voice modes, they cannot decrypt encrypted transmissions (anything ID'ed in the database as mode DE, TE, P25E, DMRE, NXDNE, anything with an "E" suffix). Hope this clears things up for you
 
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atomictaco911

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That post was 12 years old, a lot has changed since then. P25 Phase 2 wasn't even released back then and TACN was first released the year that post was made. Many of those suggestions won't decode a good portion of the signals being used now. That's why I posted this, plus current scanners are far more advanced and much more useful if I decide to take a trip.
 

n4yek

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The best thing to do is download the Broadcastify app from Google Play store or the App Store and start monitoring your area. You will find out real quick what can be heard and what can't be monitored. Then make a decision on what to purchase.
It looks like there are some things in Anderson that can be monitored but
Knox doesn't have a feed on Broadcastify. It is pretty much encrypted when it comes to law enforcement.
 

wprileyjr3

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For Anderson County on TACN THP, UT Lifestar Helicopter, Oliver Springs PD, and Anderson County Sheriff are all in the clear. THP, OSPD, and ACSO also have encrypted channels for as needed use. Oak Ridge is on TACN but everything but school bus and utilities are encrypted. The rest of the county EMS, County Vol FD, Clinton PD and FD, Norris PD FD and Rocky Top PD FD are on analog UHF. As far as scanners I have a BCD 996P2 in my vehicle, use an old radio shack scanner for analog in the house and a Unication G5 for TACN around the house, and have an SDR dongle for my computer.
 

hill

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No scanners can decrypt, since they don't even have anywhere to load the keys into.

The only option if you are an authorized user is one of the Unification pagers that can keys load to decrypt. You radio shop would have to program as they aren't going let out the keys.
 

medic9351301

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Just because it supports encryption. does not mean it can be decoded with out a key . if that were the case i would be down in mexico selling a kidney to get a few .
Unless you have ties to a encrypted agency . You would have better luck on a playing the super dupera mega lottery.
The average joe scanner user will not crack encryption. Plus these unication will not do dmr/ nexedge. Yes there 800 single channel / trunked dmr systems out there .Plus there more complicated to program than a sds series scanner . Even if you were to find a deal on a actual name brand radio . Your lookinig at at least another couple hundered to have it programed by someone other than a radio shop .
Plus the ECPA clearly stats that no encrypted channels can be broken .
If i were looking to buy a new scanner i would just go with a sds unit if what you want to monitor is a simulcast system.
 

wprileyjr3

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There is a DMR upgrade to the Unication but it can’t do NXDN. Having a Unication and traveling with it my opinion is that monitoring a simulcast system is where it excels. A system programmed radio is better but the Unication is a close second. Even on a non simulcast system like TACN in Anderson County it blows the 996p2 in my vehicle out of the water. I have the 996p2 hooked to a Larsen tri-band and my Unication with stock stubby antenna and sitting in a cup holder will have good signal when my p2 loses it. Now the downside is Anderson County has several departments on UHF analog so the Unication can’t monitor both. My G5 can do either but not both at the same time. So if you want to monitor both analog and digital then yes a SDS would be the best. Programming is a bit different but everything you need is on the RR database. Program in the different sites for non simulcast and the Unication will lock on to the site with best signal and if signal weakens it will jump to the site with the strongest signal. As with everything there is no one size fits all. It is about finding the best tool for the job.
 

INDY72

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Here's one scanner (they market it as a pager) that supports encryption:
G-Series P25 Voice Pager | Unication

There are others, but... what do I know?
The Unications ARE PAGERS! They are NOT scanners. They have the ability to scan on an limited basis just like an system radio, but they are NOT scanners. The ONLY way an Unication can do encrypted TG's/Freqs, is if you have the encryption keys loaded by an official source that does the programming for the system/s in question. You are not just gonna get those unless you have an official tie to the system for some reason. But hey, what do we know? Right?
 

surfacemount

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Are we really going to argue the definition of a scanner now?

Ok, I'm game.

Scanner: you load multiple things you want to hear, and it monitors them all for voice traffic via scan or stare, without the ability to transmit, nor does it have a manual tuning capability. On the other hand, a (voice) pager generally monitors one frequency and only passes audio on one specific set of tones.

I googled 'scanning pager' just in case I missed something. There is only one place marketing them, and that's what it is; a marketing ploy.

The G5 is a scanner.


Your position on encryption is ignorant. It either will or will not decrypt. The key variable material is irrelevant to the discussion. It does not need loaded by an official source, the end user can buy a keyloader themselves.

You are not just gonna get those unless you have an official tie to the system for some reason.
We shouldn't discuss how to get keys here, I don't think Lindsay would appreciate it...
 

surfacemount

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Just because it supports encryption. does not mean it can be decoded with out a key .

I don't see anyone arguing that.

Having a Unication and traveling with it my opinion is that monitoring a simulcast system is where it excels. A system programmed radio is better but the Unication is a close second. Even on a non simulcast system like TACN in Anderson County it blows the 996p2 in my vehicle out of the water.
This cat understands.

And, I have since learned that Unication makes an all-band (and, I mean ALL band) portable radio. I sincerely hope someone imports a case or two accidentally...
 

INDY72

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Wow, just wow. So a pager only listens for ONE set of tones? Okay, uh huh. Even the old school non Unications could monitor and hear multiple sets of tones on a given frequency. Not just that, but also record and store the audio once tones were dropped. Then you could scroll through the recorded audio and replay those pages, with timestamps too. Pagers are in fact pretty versatile. Unications just upped the ante to be able to monitor multiple sets of frequencies, and even trunked systems, and added in P25, and DMR. Will they even add NXDN? Can't be ruled out. But unlike a true scanner, they are limited in the amount of frequencies/TG's they can monitor in a given bank. You can ONLY run 1 bank/zone at a time, and in this they actually are much more like an very poor HT. Most HT's you can scan 2 zones/banks, but only talk on the freqs/TG's in 1 of those zones/banks at a time. (The old standard is 12 to 16 CH/TG per Zone/Bank, with the ability to scan 2 Zones/Banks, but you can only talk on the "primary" Zone/Bank that you are in unless you switch to the other one that is in the scan list. And you can have 1 Ch/TG out of those 12/16 as the talk back, or have it set to talk back on the active 1.) Whereas with a scanner it scans every bank/FL you have enabled, and have from 1 to I believe its 100 priority ones now? As for key sources, every single person that is replying is stating the exact same basic information, and not telling anyone anything super secret squirrel here. Its pretty much the same info we give for those in the "I want to use radio XYZ as an non affiliate scanner" threads... But anyway, this is quickly devolving into an "I have bigger nose hairs than you" type thing And maybe, maybe, Unication will get back on its plans to produce an ACTUAL scanner, which would be welcome since Uniden is most likely out of the game with this buyout, and Whistler is stagnated, quite possibly also done. If they are also making actual Professional and Public Safety radios, even better but again, thats not scanner. Not to mention that if you had an all band radio that actually scanned the way a scanner does, it would cost about 10 G's US, as it would also have to be all modes too. (AM, FM, NFM, SSB, P25, P25 Trunked, DMR, DMR Trunked, NXDN, NXDN Trunked... I really don't see this happening currently and be affordable to any agency not at the Military or Federal spending budgetary levels.)
 
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medic9351301

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Are we really going to argue the definition of a scanner now?

Ok, I'm game.

Scanner: you load multiple things you want to hear, and it monitors them all for voice traffic via scan or stare, without the ability to transmit, nor does it have a manual tuning capability. On the other hand, a (voice) pager generally monitors one frequency and only passes audio on one specific set of tones.

I googled 'scanning pager' just in case I missed something. There is only one place marketing them, and that's what it is; a marketing ploy.

The G5 is a scanner.


Your position on encryption is ignorant. It either will or will not decrypt. The key variable material is irrelevant to the discussion. It does not need loaded by an official source, the end user can buy a keyloader themselves.


We shouldn't discuss how to get keys here, I don't think Lindsay would appreciate it...
dude get a life. all people are saying is unless you have a reason to have a encrp key . your not going to get it . it is common knowledge to that fact . and even if you had a key loader the issue is unless you have a vaild reason to have the key. do you realize how many encp keys are out there . like i said you would have better ods winning a lottery or getting struck by lighting . i once seen a post some where even with a mega super computer the chance of finding a code are slim to none. no one is saying it can or cant decrypt it. just for kicks here is what they say "The G-Series P25 Voice Pagers support AES, DES, and URC4 (ADP/ARC4 Compatible) encryption. It is loaded with our key loading software that can be obtained by contacting your Authorized Dealer. The unit supports up to 1024 Keys total."

supports up to 256 contol chnnels per system . does not say how many tg it will support in


  • Does the G3/G5 allow for scanning between channels and frequencies?​


    The dual band models DO scan different bands simultaneously, however G-Series pagers of any model cannot simultaneously scan between a trunked P25 system and another system or between two trunked systems. The limitation is related to a system’s protocol, not the frequency band. For example, you CAN program both VHF & UHF or VHF & 700-800MHz onto the same knob position and scan them simultaneously if they are both on Analog systems, both Conventional P25 systems, or one is Analog 2-tone and one is Conventional P25. But you CANNOT do this on P25 trunked systems (P25 Phase I or Phase II).

    If either band is on a trunked P25 system, you must put them onto separate knob positions. Most commonly, users that get alerted over VHF analog but also need to monitor radio traffic on a UHF or 700-800 MHz P25 trunked system, would use a dual banded model and program VHF onto knob 1 and the P25 trunked system onto knob 2, then after they receive an alert they would switch over to knob 2 to monitor radio traffic on the P25 trunked system.
 
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surfacemount

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Wow, just wow. So a pager only listens for ONE set of tones?
Yes. That's the entire concept of fire / ems paging. A set of tones were grouped for each station, or fire function (heavy rescue, structure, etc). Dispatch hit a button, sent that set of tones. Really, a genius system for people that didn't want to SCAN or hear things not pertinent to them, which they could do with a station portable. That was the genesis of the voice pager.


Okay, uh huh. Even the old school non Unications could monitor and hear multiple sets of tones on a given frequency. Not just that, but also record and store the audio once tones were dropped. Then you could scroll through the recorded audio and replay those pages, with timestamps too. Pagers are in fact pretty versatile.
That's only been in the last years. That's not what a MINITOR or any of the PLECTRON offerings could do. And, that's not how the system was designed.


Unications just upped the ante to be able to monitor multiple sets of frequencies, and even trunked systems, and added in P25, and DMR. Will they even add NXDN? Can't be ruled out.
Milf, you just described every scanner in the current market. And, conversely, you ruled out every voice pager in the market. Thank you for proving my point; it is a ****ty scanner in a voice pagers' clothing.

But unlike a true scanner,?
Snip, thank you for the discussion on what scanners do. I am also sort of familiar with the lineage and history of what they do, also, but it might help others who read this thread later.

None of what you said makes the Uni offering any less a scanner. Scanners scan. Pagers don't. Voice pagers monitor a fire or ems (who else even uses them any longer? Oil production? Industrial? I don't know) paging or main channel/talkgroup/net/whatever, and remains silent until the correct tone set is sent. The unication can and will open on anything it wants, on any number of talkgroups, including playing everything on a complete system. I went and briefly researched voice paging, because it's an ancient tech and I don't have anything to do with fire/ems so it's not an area I have an interest in. Swissphone makes a current voice pager. One band, and with a special mod, can monitor 8 talk groups. Wow. neat. Same same Apollo and the other two I saw.

Technically, I would consider that a scanner too. In 1975, my regency had 8 channels, needed internal things done to change the frequency, and only thing it did better was multiple bands, where the Swissphone can only do chunks of one. How does this compare to your first one?

I'll say it again, voice pagers are designed to monitor a single talkgroup, and only open on receipt of a single set of tones. FOR CONVENIENCE, they added other tone sets and frequencies in recognition that an end user might be assigned to another function, or work multiple jobs, and it takes workload off a radio shop tech not having to reconfigure the unit, and it is cheaper than making the unit endlessly reconfigurable. The Unication appears to be built from the ground up as a SDR scanning radio that happens to lend itself to voice paging, but nonetheless.... it's a scanner. Not a great scanner, but; it scans.

As for key sources,
I was being cheeky, milf
threads... But anyway, this is quickly devolving into an "I have bigger nose hairs than you" type thing
I will concede that we have hijacked the poor op's thread. But, I disagree on whose thing is larger than the other's, we never went into our bonafides. lol
And maybe, maybe, Unication will get back on its plans to produce an ACTUAL scanner,
they already make a scanner. Asked and answered.
which would be welcome since Uniden is most likely out of the game with this buyout, and Whistler is stagnated, quite possibly also done.
I think scanners per se are done in the US. If you want to start another thread on that, I'd be happy to throw my .0002 in on that.
Not to mention that if you had an all band radio that actually scanned the way a scanner does, it would cost about 10 G's US, as it would also have to be all modes too. (AM, FM, NFM, SSB, P25, P25 Trunked, DMR, DMR Trunked, NXDN, NXDN Trunked...
A- no it doesn't, and B- no, it doesn't.

AOR and Watkins Johnson made some of the most high-end, amazing commercial scanners that could be bought at any price point. None of their offerings did all of that in their stock configurations. Digital Radio Technologies and Harris make some of the current highest end scanners that exist at any price point, and unless you start stacking options, none of them do all that out of the box. (War story follows - iDen was a particular pain in the rhubarbs to intercept).

Hell, I have access to a couple twenty thousand plus dollar devices by Anritsu that won't do all that even if they were completely whored out with every option including the ones only available to certain US/allied IC entities.

Pricewise, again, no. SDR systems start at $20 USD if you have a relatively old computer to run them off of already laying around. They can do gapless coverage that most legacy scanners could only dream of, and will absolutely do all the 'modes' ('trunked' is a mode, DMR/NXDN/MOTOTRBO/ANW/JTRS are waveforms since we are being pedantic about words this afternoon) you are discussing. The list of software modules one can find online for SDR (software defined radios) are staggering, and absolutely include the capability to defeat encryption (please do not message or email me on this topic; thanks).
I really don't see this happening currently and be affordable to any agency not at the Military or Federal spending budgetary levels.)
I have relevant experience on that thought. I am telling you it already exists low cost in the experimental SDR realm, and there are units on taobao/aliexpress that also transmit, but are still in the 3-5k USD range. For now.
 

surfacemount

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dude get a life.
bro, I have a life. Yours appears to be 'medic'. Mine is radios.... among other things.


all people are saying is unless you have a reason to have a encrp key . your not going to get it . it is common knowledge to that fact .
Nope. You are flat out wrong. And spreading misinformation. And leading users to believe their 'secure' radio systems are in fact, completely secure. They... are not, which is common knowledge to professionals and industry insiders.


and even if you had a key loader
They are cheap as hell, right now, including a free software version (If you are reading this thread, and understand what I am trying to tell these people, please do not message me, I will not do your homework for you, or even provide a lead. Thank you for understanding. It's out there, you can find it).

the issue is unless you have a vaild reason to have the key. do you realize how many encp keys are out there . like i said you would have better ods winning a lottery or getting struck by lighting . i once seen a post some where even with a mega super computer the chance of finding a code are slim to none.
Respectfully, you don't know what you're talking about. If you want to start a thread about it, I will share what I can, but the owner of the site doesn't want this topic discussed. At all. Because reasons. Read into that what you will.
no one is saying it can or cant decrypt it.
Yes, they are. Scroll up.

just for kicks here is what they say "The G-Series P25 Voice Pagers support AES, DES, and URC4 (ADP/ARC4 Compatible) encryption. It is loaded with our key loading software that can be obtained by contacting your Authorized Dealer. The unit supports up to 1024 Keys total."


  • The dual band models DO scan different bands simultaneously
Thank you. All, please listen to medicnnnn, he may not really get encryption, but he at least went to the site, and cited the fact that the Unication CAN monitor encrypted channels, and CAN scan.


To my knowledge, none of the garbage whistler, or uniden, or that other company makes can do encryption without an aftermarket conversion or an outboard device.

Have we beat this to death yet?

I feel like this is beat to death now.
 

surfacemount

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I am new to the modern scanners and have been thinking about getting one. I have spent hours reading on the various systems and scanners and am more confused. Some systems in my area are encrypted but most don't appear to be. I have read posts and articles saying some scanners can be programmed to decode the encryption and others saying the opposite. I have access to a active radio, can the encryption key be pulled up on that radio and programmed into a scanner to listen to that department? What would be the best scanners for East TN? I know some agencies are P25 1 others P25 2 some TACN. I'm still trying to research but the game has changed a lot in the past 20-30 years.

I apologize, taco.
The least I could do is answer your question before I go tard jousting on pedantry.

It is very easy to get confused about listening to radio systems in 2023; it IS confusing. Do NOT feel bad. It is not like it used to be. I remember the radio shack in the Oak Ridge Mall, it had a list of frequencies typed up on a typewriter scotch taped under the glass at the counter. That era is gone.

There are analog and digital systems. The number of analog (legacy/old time) systems have dwindled to almost nothing in this area. Digital systems require a digital listening device much like you can't get tv off the air with an antenna anymore unless you either have a digital tv, or a digital adapter box. Same same.

An uncomfortably increasing number of entities take it a step further and make it so even if you have the appropriate receiver, even a real transceiver, without an additional piece of information you still can't listen. That's what they used to call 'scrambling' and now you see it as E or ENC or encryption.

Even if you have access to a radio that currently is correctly 'keyed' (It can hear the transmissions), you cannot clone that into another radio or generally remove that information without a lot of specialized equipment that involves taking the radio apart. I don't recommend this.

There is only one scanner currently capable out of the box to contend with encryption, and that, opinions aside, is the Unication. It is limited to two bands, and it is a dog slow scanner. But it will decrypt.

The issue is, unless you have a plan to obtain the keys (notice everyone says 'key'? That's how you know they don't know what they are talking about.), even if you have the capability, you still won't be able to listen.



So, maybe all that was helpful. The short story is that I don't recommend any scanners any more.

I recommend you look online for what they call 'feeds'. Someone else takes all the effort upon themselves to stream radio traffic across the internet for you, all you need is a smartphone or internet-enabled device like a tablet or something. The issue is, you are limited to what others decide you get to hear; and many will delay broadcasting, so you don't get it in real time.

IF you must buy a dedicated 'scanner' appliance, buy one that you can hook to this website, and can program itself. That's the smartest way to go. None of them really stands out among the others.

Again, it does not guarantee you can hear all the things that you used to. Even stupid things like the highway department has gone scrambled on and off over the years (Roane county did, i think. unsure now).

Nothing you can buy will guarantee you are able to hear all the things I could as a kid 45 years ago.

Now
If you truly are a hobbyist, and you want to poke and explore, the current future is in software defined radio. Where you used to have to have a set of security screwdrivers, and a sams photofacts, and a soldering gun, now, you can do that again, but with just ones and zeros.

I strongly recommend the RTL-SDR as an entry point. Just go read; you'll know if it is right for you.

I have stopped recommending buying a transceiver and doing no-affiliate scanning. I used to recommend some of the Harris portables, they are relatively inexpensive, easy to program, and are very safe with regards to scanning. I never recommended the Motorola NAS route; too many pitfalls, and you either took the risk of being ripped off with a broken codeplug, or, you had to learn moto programming, buy a cable, steal software and take your chances.

If you must 'learn', figuring out SDR is going to be more profitable now and in the future than learning how to dickwhip an APX radio, I promise. Even if you want to go into 'radios' as a field, you will not really use what you figure out beating that radio into submission in a legit radio shop, again, I promise.

Radio listening as it is in Tennessee has about 5-8 more years left. Everything (and, I mean everything) will go over to 6G mobile when that shoe drops. Check my post history, I've been ringing this bell for more than ten years now. LMR, paging and terrestrial telephone has been choked out by 'cellular' telephony. Broadcast media is being choked out by wireless internet, and before that, satellite services.

We right now, this second are at that crossroads, and at least public safety isn't looking back at LMR.

The only wrench in this orderly progression onto the cellular cattle cars is the emergence of digital wideband HF modes, and the BLOS satellite stuff happening. That's why I say the sixth gen of cellphonery will be the end. Will 'scanners' survive? Doubt it. SDR will though, I bet my money on it, and you should too.

The TL : DR of this is, you are wasting money buying a police scanner in 2023. Do the internet feed route first. Buy a cheap cellphone and make it a dedicated feed appliance if you want. Do SDR as a second tier for all-band listening, do a Unication if you just want the majority of TN public safety. Lastly, don't do a scanner, and don't buy a 'police radio' and get someone to program it as a scanner for you.

I see sun outside poking through the clouds; I am going to go soak it up.

Edited to fix a typo

And to add a missing thought.
 
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