Antenna needed for HF- but in apartment

[tadpole207]

Hello friendly hams

I have just purchased an FM rig and are needing help with antenna's, I am on the 3rd floor of an apartment building currently and am wondering what the best method for putting an antenna up. With my super secret drawing software i stole from the dept of de-fence, ,i made a perfectly to scale drawing of the outside of my window.

Currently, i have a Jpole screwed into a shutter for my 2m and 70cm fiberglass antenna. For the the antenna being HF, i have been told to get a circular antenna or an offcenter dipole- which looks intriguing.

For the dipole, i was wondering if i could mount it near the ?mark in the image (hi res, so you can't mis it) and let the wires hang. I have no balcony and no access to string out the dipole.

So ham sharks, what do you have for me?

 

[majoco]

I'm confused. You say you bought an FM rig but you want to put up an HF antenna. Tell us what the FM rig is - model and make. An HF antenna like an off centre dipole is going to need legs of 45yards and 15yards so that's hardly going to sit on the top of your window frame. If your radio is a VHF FM then we're in a totally different ball game.

 

[popnokick]

Also: Are you transmitting with this radio? Reason I ask is that much of what you write implies transmission, but you've posted in the "Scanners, Receivers, and Related Equipment" forum which is typically a scanning-related forum and only marginally concerned about antennas. And not about transmitting at all....

 

[W0JOG]

For what it is worth, this Old Timer (90-years) is in a retirement apartment listening to five scanners and my HF amateur rig. Not transmitting,but hearing all I need to. Antennas are, of necessity (which beats not having anything). Two scanners are using their stubby OEMs (Uniden Home Patarols) for local State Police repeater and 911. Third scanner (Uniden SDS 200) is using my formerly-outdoor discone which is sitting on the floor next to my radio desk and brings in Sheriff's repeaters for all this county and two adjoining ones quite nicely. Fourth and fifth scanners (old Uniden BC-890s) are using two multi-band mag mounts sitting on the window sill behind my desk. They follow military MOA traffic very nicely.

I'm hearing all I need to hear. Why fight it? Use what you can inside and concentrate on hearing rather than over-thinking the installation which is what I see way too many doing. That's how an "Old Guy" does it.

 

[KB2GOM]

Also: Are you transmitting with this radio? Reason I ask is that much of what you write implies transmission, but you've posted in the "Scanners, Receivers, and Related Equipment" forum which is typically a scanning-related forum and only marginally concerned about antennas. And not about transmitting at all....

(A bit off-topic) Hey, Pop, if you scroll to the bottom of this -- Jock shares: “A bit more about NOAA Weather Radio” -- you will see a link to an old friend.

Cheers, Jock

 

[tadpole207]

My apologies- I meant to say I bought HF rig, to add to my FM-UHF and VHF rig.
HUF/VHF rig is BTech 50x3
HF Rig is Yaesu FTDx10

Scanners, Receivers, and Related Equipment" forum- My bad, i swore i saw antennas and thought this was the correct forum. My apologies. If admin wants to move, kindly do.

Are you transmitting with this radio- Yes

So right now, i have a Jpole with the antenna for the Btech mounted outside the window on a shutter. I had the antenna inside but had a conversation with Ed Fong and he gave me the rundown on too much HF inside the house, which got me worried so i took my antenna off the pie plate and mounted outside.

I am in a corner and hid the Jpole pretty well, and there is a tree directly in front of the window i could string something to.

So basically i could run part of the dipoles out and away from each other and then part hang down, separated.

@W0JOG- i get it, but i transmit sir.

 

[W0JOG]

For HF, I forgot to add I have a NVIS (Near Verticle Incidence Skywave) random-length wire running from edge of my deck outside aforementioned window to a tree. Wire is about 30 feet and just high enough to clear truck traffic or less. Wire is hooked to a well-grounded MFJ Differential-T tuner. It will load everything from a coat hanger to . . . . NVIS? Look it up. It is why all those National Guard Humvees you see have a whip bent over along driver's side.

 

[prcguy]

Regarding indoor HF antennas, if you are in a wood cabin with no wiring or pipes in the wall and ceiling wood shingle roof and no computers or typical home electronics, you can get some some antennas to perform ok indoors like an HF loop or for the higher bands like 20-10m maybe a dipole or other wire antenna stretched through some rooms.

For typical apartment construction forgetaboutit. There will be too much wiring, AC ducting, etc, to interfere with the antenna and you will get massive interference from your and your neighbors noisy electronics. If the apartment has a stucco exterior the entire building will be covered in metal lath or RF shielding.

If you can convince the landlord to put an HF antenna outside you can get some good use out of that radio, otherwise not so much.

 

[W0JOG]

Tried it? I've worked Russia on a random-length wire "U" shaped around the floor of a third floor steel and brick apartment building in Rockport, MD on 20 meters and maintained a regular schedule state-side on the same band circa 1989-1990. Tuner there was a simple MFJ one for 100-watt work.

Don't look for excuses for why things won't work without throwing lots of money at them. Real Amateur Radio operators who are there for when all the high-tech things go down or are back home on a fancy desk. I speak from 50-years of ham radio, taught by Elmers who made you prove what works rather than what won't.

de W0JOG

 

[prcguy]

Tried it recently? The amount of home electronics that spew RFI completely taking out most HF amateur bands has increased tremendously in the last 20yrs. Its not just the stuff in your apartment you have control over, its in every apartment on every floor.

People come to me all the time with this problem of operating indoors in a big apartment and the radio S meter is stuck at S9+10dB on all bands and there is seldom a fix unless you can cut power to the entire building when you want to operate. If the OP has a useable noise floor then great, but I suspect he will not.

Tried it? I've worked Russia on a random-length wire "U" shaped around the floor of a third floor steel and brick apartment building in Rockport, MD on 20 meters and maintained a regular schedule state-side on the same band circa 1989-1990. Tuner there was a simple MFJ one for 100-watt work.

Don't look for excuses for why things won't work without throwing lots of money at them. Real Amateur Radio operators who are there for when all the high-tech things go down or are back home on a fancy desk. I speak from 50-years of ham radio, taught by Elmers who made you prove what works rather than what won't.

de W0JOG

 

[KB2GOM]

Tadpole,

If I am reading correctly, you are on the third floor. Are there more stories above you? I'm thinking dangle an end-fed antenna from your window (or from the roof) and run the feedline in through your window. For stealth, you might try to match the color of the antenna wire to the color of your building.

Cheers, Jock

 

[tadpole207]

Correct, 3rd floor and top floor. I run the 2 and 70 antenna wire through the window now, so the plan was to either mount a split dipole or an end fed antenna (your idea) through the window as well. Thank you for the suggestion

If I am reading correctly, you are on the third floor. Are there more stories above you? I'm thinking dangle an end-fed antenna from your window (or from the roof) and run the feedline in through your window. For stealth, you might try to match the color of the antenna wire to the color of your building.

 

[tadpole207]

Looking for NVIS online and since i am having surgery today, is there anything i can buy and have delivered so i can start working the bands? All i can fnd now are vidoes on youtube of people using them, not explaining them or where to get them.

For HF, I forgot to add I have a NVIS (Near Verticle Incidence Skywave) random-length wire running from edge of my deck outside aforementioned window to a tree. Wire is about 30 feet and just high enough to clear truck traffic or less. Wire is hooked to a well-grounded MFJ Differential-T tuner. It will load everything from a coat hanger to . . . . NVIS? Look it up. It is why all those National Guard Humvees you see have a whip bent over along driver's side.

 

[W0JOG]

Get a radio supply catalog and make out a list while you recuperate. Good luck.

de W0JOG

 

[popnokick]

Looking for NVIS online and since i am having surgery today, is there anything i can buy and have delivered so i can start working the bands? All i can fnd now are vidoes on youtube of people using them, not explaining them or where to get them.

Here are some Amateur Radio antenna suppliers that have catalogs. There are MANY more than I've listed below, and of course they all have websites -
- Ham Radio Outlet
- DX Engineering | Ham Radio Equipment & Supplies
- GigaParts - Amateur Radio, Computers and More! GigaParts.com
- The Antenna Farm, Your two way radio source
- MyAntennas.com
- https://palomar-engineers.com
And if you can do simple antenna assembly, consider this EFHW kit from ARRL -
- End-Fed Half-Wave Antenna Kit

 

[tadpole207]

Thanks Pop. I ordered this before I left-sitting in hospital now. Reading my Arrl Antenna encyclopedia as well.

Description
1. full-size half-wave dipole antenna level , the classic high efficiency antenna.
2. fully waterproof Carbon Wei Balun
3. Common quad-band (5/7/14/21/28-29/50MHz) mark , with the bobbin easily adjust the switching frequency.
4. special canvas pouch , the volume is very small .

Specifications
Frequency: 5-50MHz
SWR: ≤1.2
Impedance: 50Ω
Power: 100W PEP
Irradiator: 20AWG
Outlet: SL16(male)
Balun: 1:1
Package Size: 75×75×130(WDH,mm)
Gross Weight: 0.4kg


Features & details

• 1. full-size half-wave dipole antenna level , the classic high efficiency antenna.
• 2. fully waterproof Carbon Wei Balun
• 3. Common quad-band (5/7/14/21/28-29/50MHz) mark , with the bobbin easily adjust the switching frequency
• 4. special canvas pouch , the volume is very small, very easy to Portable
• 5:Gross Weight: 0.4k
  
  
• Figured this would at least get me started listening.