Applying for FCC VHF simplex part 90 frequency

[AES-256-Encryption]

NO. Wrong order, do NOT do it that way.

Your first step is to come up with your business plan. Then go to the frequency coordinator.

DO. NOT. EVER. BUY. THE. RADIOS. FIRST. EVER.
The frequency coordination will assign you to a band/frequency, and you need to have that done before you start buying radios. I've seen too many hobbyists try to buy the radios first and then coordinate, only to find out that have the wrong radios.

Don't waste your money. Wait until you have the license before buying radios.

understandable

 

[mmckenna]

because there tanks

Don't buy into the marketing hype.

I run a bunch of radio systems. Motorola makes some crappy equipment. 20+ year old XTS series would no longer qualify under the "tank" classification. They are old radios well past their prime and they would need to be properly aligned if you plan on using them for anything serious.

There are many other radio brands that will work just as well, be just as durable (or even more durable than the XTS) and will cost less money. Buying into Motorola marketing hype is a waste of money.

 

[AES-256-Encryption]

Don't buy into the marketing hype.

I run a bunch of radio systems. Motorola makes some crappy equipment. 20+ year old XTS series would no longer qualify under the "tank" classification. They are old radios well past their prime and they would need to be properly aligned if you plan on using them for anything serious.

There are many other radio brands that will work just as well, be just as durable (or even more durable than the XTS) and will cost less money. Buying into Motorola marketing hype is a waste of money.

i appreciate all your help! thanks to everyone who replied and ill make sure to get back to you guys once i figure it all out!

 

[mmckenna]

oh i see so i can sell licenses for like $50 a year kinda thing

No. You can't sell licenses. The FCC assigns licenses.

If you have the money, you can put up a repeater under your license and sell access to that repeater UNDER YOUR LICENSE to other users. You are still responsible for everything that goes on with the repeater and the radios used on it. You would be the licensee.

You can charge users, but making a repeater pay for itself isn't easy. A LOT of companies have gone out of business trying to make this business model work. Don't go into this as a money making scheme, especially if you are out in a rural area. To get any wide area coverage, you'll need a good radio site. Good radio sites are very expensive. You'll have to pay for installation, tower climbing, as well as periodic maintenance of the system. It gets expensive quickly.

If you want secret communications with your buddies, get Push To Talk over LTE radios. It'll give you encrypted communications with way better coverage than you can ever afford. This is the way large chunks of the industry is going. Building out traditional LMR systems is very expensive, only large companies that have the investment already in place can make this work. Even then, they are losing customers to cellular all the time.

Just be aware of the sheer cost of making all this work:
Frequency Coordination - few hundred bucks
FCC License - few hundred bucks
Repeater - few hundred to thousands.
Duplexer, coax, lightning protection, grounding, tower, feed line, antenna, installation - several tens of thousands
Upkeep, lease, power, maintenance, figure a few thousand a year.

It's really easy to quickly spend 10-20 thousand to make this work, then a bunch of money every year.

Think this through carefully before doing it. You'll need a lot of friends paying a lot of money to make a profit off this.

 

[mmckenna]

And don't start buying random radio crap off e-bay. I've seen many people do this and get into a mess.

 

[KevinC]

No. You can't sell licenses. The FCC assigns licenses.

If you have the money, you can put up a repeater under your license and sell access to that repeater UNDER YOUR LICENSE to other users. You are still responsible for everything that goes on with the repeater and the radios used on it. You would be the licensee.

You can charge users, but making a repeater pay for itself isn't easy. A LOT of companies have gone out of business trying to make this business model work. Don't go into this as a money making scheme, especially if you are out in a rural area. To get any wide area coverage, you'll need a good radio site. Good radio sites are very expensive. You'll have to pay for installation, tower climbing, as well as periodic maintenance of the system. It gets expensive quickly.

If you want secret communications with your buddies, get Push To Talk over LTE radios. It'll give you encrypted communications with way better coverage than you can ever afford. This is the way large chunks of the industry is going. Building out traditional LMR systems is very expensive, only large companies that have the investment already in place can make this work. Even then, they are losing customers to cellular all the time.

Just be aware of the sheer cost of making all this work:
Frequency Coordination - few hundred bucks
FCC License - few hundred bucks
Repeater - few hundred to thousands.
Duplexer, coax, lightning protection, grounding, tower, feed line, antenna, installation - several tens of thousands
Upkeep, lease, power, maintenance, figure a few thousand a year.

It's really easy to quickly spend 10-20 thousand to make this work, then a bunch of money every year.

Think this through carefully before doing it. You'll need a lot of friends paying a lot of money to make a profit off this.

One more thing. A lot of (all, most?) site (be it tower or roof top) owners require you to have insurance. Typically a million dollar minimum.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Hi there,

I'm interested in getting a Part 90 radio license for a VHF radio frequency for my home radios. I want to start with simplex communication and then eventually get a Quantar repeater that my friends and I can use. I'm a little confused about the application process for a FCC license. What's the best way to apply? And what section/pool should I apply under?

Thanks for your help!

It is unlikely that you would ever qualify for a Part 90 VHF repeater pair let alone simplex for your private use. Part 95 UHF GMRS is the best route. Or MURS if you can get by with simplex.

 

[AES-256-Encryption]

"If you have the money, you can put up a repeater under your license and sell access to that repeater UNDER YOUR LICENSE to other users."

you just said what i was trying to say

 

[AES-256-Encryption]

No. You can't sell licenses. The FCC assigns licenses.

If you have the money, you can put up a repeater under your license and sell access to that repeater UNDER YOUR LICENSE to other users. You are still responsible for everything that goes on with the repeater and the radios used on it. You would be the licensee.

You can charge users, but making a repeater pay for itself isn't easy. A LOT of companies have gone out of business trying to make this business model work. Don't go into this as a money making scheme, especially if you are out in a rural area. To get any wide area coverage, you'll need a good radio site. Good radio sites are very expensive. You'll have to pay for installation, tower climbing, as well as periodic maintenance of the system. It gets expensive quickly.

If you want secret communications with your buddies, get Push To Talk over LTE radios. It'll give you encrypted communications with way better coverage than you can ever afford. This is the way large chunks of the industry is going. Building out traditional LMR systems is very expensive, only large companies that have the investment already in place can make this work. Even then, they are losing customers to cellular all the time.

Just be aware of the sheer cost of making all this work:
Frequency Coordination - few hundred bucks
FCC License - few hundred bucks
Repeater - few hundred to thousands.
Duplexer, coax, lightning protection, grounding, tower, feed line, antenna, installation - several tens of thousands
Upkeep, lease, power, maintenance, figure a few thousand a year.

It's really easy to quickly spend 10-20 thousand to make this work, then a bunch of money every year.

Think this through carefully before doing it. You'll need a lot of friends paying a lot of money to make a profit off this.

i was thinking simplex since i live on the top of a mountain...

 

[AES-256-Encryption]

It is unlikely that you would ever qualify for a Part 90 VHF repeater pair let alone simplex for your private use. Part 95 UHF GMRS is the best route. Or MURS if you can get by with simplex.

i want digital is the only problem

 

[mmckenna]

i was thinking simplex since i live on the top of a mountain...

Well, simplex is great if you are on the mountain and want to talk to someone else. But for everyone not on the mountain, it's not going to be a good solution. Range will be pretty short, and people won't want to pay for that. The money is in the repeater service. Problem is, repeaters cost a lot of money to do right. Repeater building isn't something you do by buying parts of e-Bay and sticking them together.

Often people will find that if they want two way radio service, it's MUCH cheaper to purchase service from someone else. Spreading the cost out across a lot of users lowers the price for everyone. Unless you are going to have a lot of paying customers, there is not really any way to make this much more than a very expensive hobby.

 

[AES-256-Encryption]

Well, simplex is great if you are on the mountain and want to talk to someone else. But for everyone not on the mountain, it's not going to be a good solution. Range will be pretty short, and people won't want to pay for that. The money is in the repeater service. Problem is, repeaters cost a lot of money to do right. Repeater building isn't something you do by buying parts of e-Bay and sticking them together.

Often people will find that if they want two way radio service, it's MUCH cheaper to purchase service from someone else. Spreading the cost out across a lot of users lowers the price for everyone. Unless you are going to have a lot of paying customers, there is not really any way to make this much more than a very expensive hobby.

Hmm, well I guess I’ll have to look around, but since my 3 buddy’s live just down the hill is honestly the reason we wanted to get a radio system, we wanted it p25 and that’s why we were looking at part 90 radios because they seemed to be the best, do you think murs radios or I’ve seen ht750 for cheap would be better? Honestly I’m kinda just about to put a tin can and a string down to his house lol

 

[mmckenna]

Hmm, well I guess I’ll have to look around, but since my 3 buddy’s live just down the hill is honestly the reason we wanted to get a radio system, we wanted it p25 and that’s why we were looking at part 90 radios because they seemed to be the best, do you think murs radios or I’ve seen ht750 for cheap would be better? Honestly I’m kinda just about to put a tin can and a string down to his house lol

I think spending a bunch of money for P25/Encryption/Repeaters when all you need to do is talk down the hill is kind of a waste. If you are honestly only going to use it to talk to your buddies, Part 90 isn't really the right place to do that. The rules really do want it to be for business use.

HT750's are old radios and most have had a hard life. I wouldn't spend more than about $50 on one of those, if even that.

GMRS is a suitable service for what you want. In rural areas, the channels will be pretty quiet. Get some Kenwood TK-3180 UHF portables, maybe a few TK-8180 mobiles, and you'll have a really good system. Use DPL/DCS squelch and you'll keep the occasional other user from annoying you.

Don't overthink this, or spend a lot of money on fancy radios/equipment.

 

[AES-256-Encryption]

I think spending a bunch of money for P25/Encryption/Repeaters when all you need to do is talk down the hill is kind of a waste. If you are honestly only going to use it to talk to your buddies, Part 90 isn't really the right place to do that. The rules really do want it to be for business use.

HT750's are old radios and most have had a hard life. I wouldn't spend more than about $50 on one of those, if even that.

GMRS is a suitable service for what you want. In rural areas, the channels will be pretty quiet. Get some Kenwood TK-3180 UHF portables, maybe a few TK-8180 mobiles, and you'll have a really good system. Use DPL/DCS squelch and you'll keep the occasional other user from annoying you.

Don't overthink this, or spend a lot of money on fancy radios/equipment.

i was given 6 ht750 UHF by a buddy of mine, i also have 3 xts5000 VHF and a APX portable. sucks the APX isnt UHF but ill make due, i guess if it comes to SHTF or like ****s going bad then i can use the XTS5000/apx for that. i appreciate the help, ill get some filing for a GMRS license done soon!

 

[Citywide173]

i do repairs more or less then fileing licenses

I'm confused. How can you do repairs without testing. At least a service monitor to ensure that frequency and modulation are within spec?

 

[mmckenna]

i was given 6 ht750 UHF by a buddy of mine, i also have 3 xts5000 VHF and a APX portable. sucks the APX isnt UHF but ill make due, i guess if it comes to SHTF or like ****s going bad then i can use the XTS5000/apx for that. i appreciate the help, ill get some filing for a GMRS license done soon!

If you have free HT-750's then there ya go. Either bandsplit will work on GMRS. However, i'm not sure they have the necessary Part 95 approval.

The XTS-5000/APX radios would be useful on the 2 meter amateur radio band. If you are interested in communications, then amateur radio can be a good resource. Likely there are repeaters in your area that you could use these radios on.

 

[AES-256-Encryption]

I'm confused. How can you do repairs without testing. At least a service monitor to ensure that frequency and modulation are within spec?

depends on what band it is and what radio it is, i sometimes use MURS/GMRS but dont like to, i havent done repairs for a few months since i moved and i now focus on working on my own devices and refurbishing and reselling

 

[N4DES]

you just said what i was trying to say

If you are looking to sell access it will need to be licensed as an FB6 for commercial - for profit access.

Other option, that no one has mentioned, is you can now use FM on CB radio. The quality is light years better than AM and SSB, the distance is about equal to SSB with lower power, no license is required, and being not many use it would add some level of privacy.