AR-DV1 USB FAULT on some recent Receivers

[marlbrook]

For information I have an early DV1, and the USB interface returns the following information using the Linux “lsusb” command.

In case anyone wonders. The later main PCB has been in use for quite a long time now, with no reported USB failures until this 'batch of AR-DV1's started to appear for sale recently. If you are thinking about buying an AR-DV1 then it is a brilliant Radio, just be aware of the USB issue and make sure you test for it over several days when first you receive it.

Although a lot of the Radios had this issue, and there are probably other sold Units where the fault exists but the new Owners have not yet tried to connect their DV1's re. external control, so remain ignorant of it.

There may hopefully be other recent sales where the problem does not exist.

Mainly because AOR's policy is 'never to lose face' by simply admitting any of its products have a fault it is impossible to know what this USB issue has been caused by.

It could be a bad 'bin' of USB chips, they changed the chip they use, or that something went wrong when the 'bad' batch of DV1's was assembled.

Anyway, not AOR's problem apparently, just the fault of some annoying Customers.

Dealers have also got much to answer for too. To my knowledge, with the exception of M. L. Lynch & Sons, most have continued to deny they have any reports of a USB issue, despite several of them returning new Customer's radios to Japan for repair for this reason. Whether they are pursuing this false 'no knowledge' principle on their own account or on the instructions of AOR is up for debate.

I have been told that some have been assured by AOR that this is all 'fake news' distributed by me. Not 'fake news' to the people who posted about their new DV1's USB ports failing I suspect (SIGH).

 

[Rob_Gouda]

Dave I checked the bottom again but it is not there either.
In Windows it does indeed provide Silicon Labs
CP210x UART Bridge on.
It seems that the uart must be somewhere on the display pcb.
I haven't taken it apart yet.

 

[Rob_Gouda]

I have looked at the display pcb and there is also no cp2102x chip present.
It's a complete mystery to me.

 

[G8PTN]

Hi Rob,

That’s interesting to know. I wonder if it is possible to follow the USB data traces on the PCB from the USB connector to see where they end up.

I am not too sure how a VCP (virtual com port) works, but perhaps as you originally said the USB is handled in one of the other devices and under license agreement uses VCP drivers?

Regards,
Dave

 

[Rob_Gouda]

Hi Dave
I think that will be tricky without a schematic.
I tried but it is a multi layer pcb.
So another dead end
So yes I think it is hidden somewhere in another chip.
We definitely need more info about the DV1.

 

[Rob_Gouda]

Hi Dave
According to the datasheet of the micro controller ADSP-BF533, it has the usb controllers on board.
Unfortunately, it is not possible if the USB port of the AOR DV1 is defective to repair it.

 

[marlbrook]

Out of interest I have been in correspondence with someone who bought a brand new DV1 in England in the last 2 weeks. It arrived with the latest (flawed) firmware (2101C), so it almost definitely a new batch from Japan.

His USB worked on arrival, and is still working. Impossible to know if this is a 'one off' since AOR refuse to acknowledge that there was a faulty batch in the first place, but hopefully they are checking their stock before sending them out now, and either 'mending' the faulty ones, or ensuring new ones are assembled correctly and tested. Does not seem a lot to ask really once the problem became public, despite total 'denial' being their usual policy.

There were too many reports of recent USB failures to be a coincidence, but lately AOR have at least been repairing the Radios free of charge, although that meant new Owners having to send the DV1's to Japan. Not that it was acceptable that AOR sent them out in the first place, but better than AOR's seeming initial approach to blame the Users, and treat any reports about it as 'fake news'. Of course they probably still only 'blame the messenger', which is their way (bless them), and as I know only too well taking active measures to 'punish' those who posted about this.

 

[marlbrook]

Out of interest I have been in correspondence with someone who bought a brand new DV1 in England in the last 2 weeks. It arrived with the latest (flawed) firmware (2101C), so it almost definitely a new batch from Japan.

His USB worked on arrival, and is still working. Impossible to know if this is a 'one off' since AOR refuse to acknowledge that there was a faulty batch in the first place, but hopefully they are checking their stock before sending them out now, and either 'mending' the faulty ones, or ensuring new ones are assembled correctly and tested. Does not seem a lot to ask really once the problem became public, despite total 'denial' being their usual policy.

There were too many reports of recent USB failures to be a coincidence, but lately AOR have at least been repairing the Radios free of charge, although that meant new Owners having to send the DV1's to Japan. Not that it was acceptable that AOR sent them out in the first place, but better than AOR's seeming initial approach to blame the Users, and treat any reports about it as 'fake news'. Of course they probably still only 'blame the messenger', which is their way (bless them), and as I know only too well taking active measures to 'punish' those who posted anything they do not like.

 

[G8PTN]

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the information. Is this microcontroller on the main board or the display board? The only controller I can see on my DV1 is a 64F7144F50V and there is no mention of USB in the datasheet.

It still seems a little strange that the USB interface enumerates with an Si-Labs CP210x VID/PID.

The comments from “marlbrook” indicate that perhaps AOR have either fixed or are testing the units for the failure prior to shipping.

I guess time will tell to see if any future failures occur. If the USB interface is embedded in one of the SOC devices, as you say it will be difficult to do a DIY repair.

Regards,
Dave

 

[Rob_Gouda]

Hi Dave
yes it is on the back of the mainboard.
And if you look at the data sheet and click on the links about usb, it may be that it contains embeded software (HCC) from Silicon-Labs cp210x

 

[G8PTN]

Hi Rob,
All Understood, I have not looked on the back of the main board.

I am still not sure that the ADSP-BF533 provides any physical USB interfaces, it is not clear from the datasheet. Also the device seems to be a long distance from the USB connector.

It’s still a mystery to me where the physical USB interface is handled, as you have previously said it would be good to have some sort of schematic for the DV1, but I guess that is unlikely.

Thank you again for the detailed information, much appreciated.

Dave

 

[c0ne]

Hi Rob,
All Understood, I have not looked on the back of the main board.

I am still not sure that the ADSP-BF533 provides any physical USB interfaces, it is not clear from the datasheet. Also the device seems to be a long distance from the USB connector.

It’s still a mystery to me where the physical USB interface is handled, as you have previously said it would be good to have some sort of schematic for the DV1, but I guess that is unlikely.

Thank you again for the detailed information, much appreciated.

Dave

That “ADSP-BF533” is the Blackfin DSP ic, i doubt it serves any other purpose.

 

[Rob_Gouda]

Unfortunately, my USB from the DV1 has now also died.
So I continued my search for the CP210x.
In the end I started to follow the print traces from the USB connector.
From the USB connector I came across the flat cable that goes to the display unit.
And from there I finally came up with the CP2104 F02AH from 2018.
I think it is possible to replace it even if it is a small IC, but there is a good chance that it will break again...
It is better to make the interface completely new or to use a different type of CP210x.
Rob

 

[palmerjrusa]

Has anyone reported this problem in an AR-DV1 purchased in the US this past year or so?

You think it's "safe" to purchase an AR-DV1 now?

 

[G8PTN]

Hi Rob,

I am sorry to hear that your DV1 USB interface has failed.

Looking at the pictures you have posted, the REGIN and VBUS are connected together and the VIO is probably powered from the DV1 power supply (3V3 or lower). This is effectively as per the CP2104 datasheet “Figure 8. Typical Bus-Powered Connection Diagram”, with Note 3: VIO can be connected directly to VDD or to a supply as low as 1.8 V to set the I/O interface voltage. From your pictures, the output from the on-chip regulator (VDD) is connected to a couple of decoupling capacitors as per the datasheet diagram.

What is the failure mode, does it appear in the Windows device manager? If not, then it does indicate that the issue is with the USB device.

If the unit is under warranty, you should have the option of getting it repaired by AOR, but from what others have said this may still be very costly.

If you are going to try and repair it yourself, perhaps you should take a two-step approach of first doing a like for like chip replacement and see if it works again. If you then see a repeated failure you will have to look at other options to replace the CP2104 with an alternative.

Before you attempt the repair, it may be worthwhile checking the voltages and signals on the CP2104, although I am not sure how easy that is going to be with the unit dismantled.

I had a quick look on-line and I can’t see anything obvious in the errata information for CP2104 relating to this failure.

Good luck with any repair and I hope you get your DV1 USB interface working again.

Regards,
Dave

 

[marlbrook]

Has anyone reported this problem in an AR-DV1 purchased in the US this past year or so?

You think it's "safe" to purchase an AR-DV1 now?

From other posts it seems AOR deny the USB problem. Some (most) Dealers deny any knowledge of such a problem despite to my certain knowledge having returned more than one of the bad batch of DV1's to Japan for repair.

However I now know of two recent purchases where the was really no USB issue. It was only one 'bad' batch of the Radios, and it 'seems' AOR may have decided to test new Radios before sale.

The only was to know is to install some control software when the Radio arrives, and use it for at least a couple of weeks. Many of the 'batch' had dead USB circuitry on arrival, and with others it failed after a few days.

I cannot believe AOR are not testing new DV1's now, even as a matter of principle, and their new '30 day test' offer appears to be proof of that.

I think it is safe to buy one, but just in case, do the tests.

 

[kinglou0]

I think it is safe to buy one, but just in case, do the tests.

If any brave souls here in the US decide to pull the trigger, please come back and post your experience.

Been wanting to buy one of these for some time now but my life is way too busy to deal with AOR shenanigans.

 

[Rob_Gouda]

Hi Dave

I know it sounds absurd, but my AOR DV1 usb is working again.
Don't ask me why, all I did was open the receiver to find the CP2104.
So I found this one and put everything back together and again tested the USB and it worked again.
I haven't done anything to the PC config (drivers etc).
Maybe I'll take it apart one more time to measure some voltages like you suggested.
Like the vbus and the vio coming from outside the chip.
But that won't be easy.
Temporarily working thin wires out so that the receiver can be reassembled is an option.
But in some cases where the cp2104 is broken it is possible to solder a new one in.

Regards
Rob

 

[marlbrook]

I know it sounds absurd, but my AOR DV1 usb is working again

Have you considered the possibility of it being the USB socket on the DV1? It is probably the 'weakest' point re. the design. Not AOR's fault, just because its solder points are tiny, and they can be put under a lot of strain just by inserting / removing a plug, particularly if any up or down force is accidentally applied.

The cable itself can be the cause of strain on the socket too, as any up / down pressure includes a fulcrum effect, adding to unwanted forces.

I have used a magnetic USB plug for a long time. The obvious advantage is once the first part is inserted into the socket, no more forces are ever involved, and should the magnetic connector on the cable be subjected to force, it just disconnects itself.

 

[G8PTN]

Hi Rob,

All understood, I am glad it is all working again. It’s probably best to leave everything alone for now and wait to see if it fails again before taking it apart and measuring the voltages.

One thing I have noticed in the past is that if you connect the USB interface before powering up the DV1 (12V), the USB interface does not always seem to be functional.

I always power up (12V) the DV1 before switching on the power to the RPi which is connected to the USB interface. The DV1 does not need to be switched on, just powered (i.e. the clock is showing). I had put this down to the way the USB interface is working with the DV1, but perhaps that is what you are seeing. If you do get into this condition, disconnect the USB, turn off the DV1 and power it down. Then repower the DV1 and reconnect the USB and the condition should clear.

I agree with “marlbrook” that it is a good idea to use a magnetic “USB data cable”, then if you knock it, it will just become detached from the magnetic coupling and it reduces possible damage to the connector on the DV1. I use a right-angled version like that shown in the attached picture.

Regards,
Dave