AT&T snags FBI business from Verizon with $92M FirstNet contract

[GlobalNorth]

FirstNet will allow agents operating in the field to blend in to the environment more easily than an agent of a generation ago that had to talk into a portable radio wrapped in a magazine, a newspaper, a paper bag,or into their cuff with a surveillance wire.

A guy talking into what looks like a wireless phone is so ubiquitous, it doesn't raise the attention of most people, including criminals.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

" Being an LMR proponent, all this makes me queasy, or it could be my lunch. "

And honestly if that's your livelihood you really should be. And no I'm not dissing you, as I to am a proponent of LMR and it's uses, but like the dino's - old things tend to go.

And why do I say that? We'll literally every use case that LMR has, can be offset/dispelled/enhanced/ by using IP.

Take a situation like say a rather large car meet say a 200 acre fair grounds..just an example not pointing fingers etc. Now in LMR land you have 2-way comms over a wide area, you have to pay people to walk around or man information booths, co-ordinate etc.

Now change that to an RoIP/IP device driven event; you now not ONLY have 2-way comms, you have 2 way direct comms with one or one to many, you have direct access to guest/attendees (via ther own personal cell/device), you have event mapping on the fly, you have GPS pathing to certain vendor tents or security first aid incidents or snack bar etc., instant messaging (one to one and one to many), you have crystal clear voice and data simultaneously, you have direct marketing of vehicles/products that they came to the event to see, you have customers that can directly access aid in the event of an fist aid incident etc.... the integration is literally endless and what it really comes down to is once again $$. If it's going to become an asset and gain for the promoter, guess what ther going to go with.

And this is the retail/consumer jib...now watch the FirstNET "future" videos on the www and see what they have planned for public service....and when they say "future" they mean within years this tech is going to land...not decades.

All that is shiny and new is that good or even sensible.

Without delving into the history and redundancy features of earlier LMR system designs for a start, I simply want to agree with MMcKenna :

"You are reliant on someone else's basket that is now holding your eggs to be in good shape and not have a hole in the bottom. Generally you are not allowed to inspect said basket before putting your eggs in it. You sort of cross your fingers and hope your eggs don't fall out the bottom. "

Yes, where in the past LMR world we designed in full redundancy and could guarantee availability, we now are relying upon "Best Effort".

The new IP based networks have become so increasingly dependent upon software that they are in an extremely fragile state. The industry has moved for better or worse, from proprietary interfaces , and has adopted IP standards. In addition, this standardization has enticed the industry to market flexibility to merge LMR and the whole RoIP/VoIP spectrum of products, APPS and services.

As a result, the once "closed off" private networks are constantly exposed to the "internet hell hole". The complexity of now required fire walls, malware detection and constant updates of software and hardware have accelerated the obsolescence of these expensive and complex systems.

In past, those legacy systems were "fire walled" by unplugging a Hayes Modem.

The new systems are just hanging out there for the latest malware hack. FyreEye just announced they themselves were hacked and all their "white hat" Penetration tools stolen. The NSA lost all their hacking tools a few years back. I think it is only a matter of time when hackers hold the FirstNet system and its users "hostage". Will it be Iran in retaliation for damaging centrifuges or suspicions of complicity in killing their nuclear scientist(s)? Or maybe a Russian group seeking Crypto Currency under the admiring gaze of Putin? Or just some kid in his basement?

By the way, the Communications Support Bulletin Board is FUBAR right now because of some PHP/SQL pinheadery caused by an ISP "software upgrade".

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

" Being an LMR proponent, all this makes me queasy, or it could be my lunch. "

And honestly if that's your livelihood you really should be. And no I'm not dissing you, as I to am a proponent of LMR and it's uses, but like the dino's - old things tend to go.

And why do I say that? We'll literally every use case that LMR has, can be offset/dispelled/enhanced/ by using IP.

Snip

Excepting this big piece of the puzzle.
Simplex operation as used in fire ground communications and ad-hoc incident command networks.

 

[mmckenna]

I'll add that the IP folks tend to have arrived at the table with a different set of ideas on reliability.

I went through this when we migrated to VoIP. IP network guy attitude is pretty lax, after all, "so what if someone can't get to the Amazon website?"
Things have improved greatly, but I've discovered relying on IP engineers and techs is really hit or miss. LTE carriers are much better, but local IP networks, no quite.

 

[TampaTyron]

Nationwide Broadband For First Responders & Public Safety at FirstNet

The FirstNet mission is to deploy, operate, maintain, and improve the first high-speed, nationwide wireless broadband network for first responders, public safety, and emergency response teams.

www.firstnet.com

A bit of sarcasm in my previous post. I design, install, and troubleshoot LMR systems for a large radio manufacturer. Also, I recently have been doing a lot of installation and maintenance of private LTE systems (CBRS and 900MHz). TT

 

[es93546]

AT&T cell service around here leaves a subscriber wishing for better service.

In the rural portions of the west AT&T service is terrible with huge areas of non coverage. Verizon's network fills in a lot of those holes. It is similar to watching some of the latest T Mobile commercials on TV. You see all those large black spots that show up in the west, interspersed with the pink color of coverage. The last 3 homes I lived in are in those black spots. In the town I live in now, a year round destination resort with a major ski area next to town, AT&T installed a single tower due to the number of urban visitors who come here. If you drive north of town you lose the signal for dozens of miles, area that Verizon has covered since cell phones looked like a WWII handheld (slight exaggeration). Verizon also put up towers at sites without commercial power first. Everyone else tends to stick to commercially powered sites only. This is not some marketing message for Verizon, it is the result of driving around and watching how many bars show on our phones.

 

[GMB951]

Also got the Army contract, will be redoing ARMY Bases just saying

 

[mmckenna]

AT&T installed a single tower due to the number of urban visitors who come here.

That, and Mammoth Lakes Fire Protection District uses FirstNet to "augment" their LMR system.

 

[littona]

In Iowa, AT&T integrated LMR with FirstNet to build the ISICS statewide system. Any talkgroup on the LMR side can be used on a phone, provided you buy all the licenses and provision it. If you don't care about the radio side, then FirstNet service is a cell service with priority/pre-emption for government users. The average AT&T salesperson doesn't know anything about the LMR side.

 

[wowologist]

. The average AT&T salesperson doesn't know anything about the LMR side.

That's because it's not meant to be for consumers nor "average" AT&T salespersons. If you are having problems or questions you should have already been issued a snap card with your agencies, contractors or authorized user's designated/coordinators single point of contact.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

That's because it's not meant to be for consumers nor "average" AT&T salespersons. If you are having problems or questions you should have already been issued a snap card with your agencies, contractors or authorized user's designated/coordinators single point of contact.

I happened to be in the ATT store resolving a problem with my Mom's phone. They had FirstNet compatible stickers on several of the display phones. I should have asked the salespeople about it. But they were having enough difficulty activating a pay as you go phone.

 

[littona]

That's because it's not meant to be for consumers nor "average" AT&T salespersons. If you are having problems or questions you should have already been issued a snap card with your agencies, contractors or authorized user's designated/coordinators single point of contact.

Found the AT&T guy. I'll clarify. The average AT&T FirstNet salesperson doesn't know about the LMR side.

 

[mmckenna]

AT&T has been pushing FirstNet pretty hard.
I've had a number of new users show up on our organization ID. None of them have been public safety, but do qualify under the "extended primary" user eligibility. So far they have all been employees that have gone to AT&T looking for new service and been put on FirstNet. Not a problem, the priority/preemption keeps them out of the way. But AT&T is working hard to get the enrollment up.

 

[littona]

But AT&T is working hard to get the enrollment up.

We've had them come to our dispatch center a few times for "signup days". Their sales folks are taking advantage of the opportunity to get some easy signups.

 

[iMONITOR]

Heard from a friend in LE, I can't confirm:

FirstNet is a joke.. no coverage in many parts of the USA.. I was on a committee in Macomb county and FirstNet had us draw in where there was lack of coverage.. their infrastructure is poor.. my nephew worked for a company that maintained their equipment at al the towers...all crap.. no generators..

Verizon ALL had generators and better equipment..

Macomb and Oakland counties made the decision NOT to switch anything to AT&T but to stay with Verizon.. I think the state of MI will also continue to use VZ - better coverage in MI except in the UP at&t has a slight lead..

 

[HM1529]

Heard from a friend in LE, I can't confirm:

FirstNet is a joke.. no coverage in many parts of the USA.. I was on a committee in Macomb county and FirstNet had us draw in where there was lack of coverage.. their infrastructure is poor.. my nephew worked for a company that maintained their equipment at al the towers...all crap.. no generators..

FirstNet is still being built out. That's like walking into a framed house with no drywall and complaining that it's drafty. Here in PA, ATT is aggressively building out tower sites across the northern tier where their service has historically been awful. They readily admitted it was awful in a training I sat through a year or two ago. They gave a five year timeline to bring the coverage in PA up to where it needs to be for FirstNet. We'll see how it goes. I live in a part of the state with excellent ATT coverage. I vacation in an area of the state with no ATT coverage. In a few years, they say that area will be covered.

 

[mmckenna]

Heard from a friend in LE, I can't confirm:

Rumors/hearsay don't really mean much. I'm not defending AT&T/FN, but I'll point out some issues with these sorts of statements:

FirstNet is a joke.. no coverage in many parts of the USA.. I was on a committee in Macomb county and FirstNet had us draw in where there was lack of coverage.. their infrastructure is poor.. my nephew worked for a company that maintained their equipment at al the towers...all crap.. no generators..

FirstNet is still being built out, so saying "no coverage" doesn't mean much. Plan is to cover something like 95% of the population. I'm not aware there was ever a plan to cover all the land area, that's just not possible, not with any terrestrial carrier.

If there is AT&T coverage, there is FirstNet coverage.

Verizon ALL had generators and better equipment..

Verizon may very well have more sites with generators, but I can assure you it's not "ALL" sites. I have a number of Verizon sites at work that do not have generators at them. I have one site that a generator was not feasible, so they have a hydrogen fuel cell plant.
AT&T doesn't have generators at many of their sites, but that's starting to change. We complained about one of the sites, so they brought in a trailered generator and left it hooked up at the site. If your friends agency isn't getting the service they need, they may not be asking the right people.

And generators are not the only solution. The requirements are to provide a certain amount of run time when utility power fails. There isn't a requirement to specifically have a generator on site. Like I said above, I've got one site that has a hydrogen fuel cell. I know of others that just upped their battery plant to run the site longer. Others have large solar farms, wind generators, lots of solutions.
Generators are really nice to have, but they do not have endless fuel supplies. Sites with generators need to be refueled, and access can be impossible in some areas. Doesn't matter the carrier. In a big enough disaster (think: some of the large hurricanes we've had), the fueling contractors could not keep up, were physically being hijacked, or could not access the site. A generator that has run out of fuel isn't very helpful...

As for "better equipment", it would be interesting to know how someone in "LE" is aware of that, and what their experience level is. Cellular equipment is locked in cabinet and/or enclosures/huts, so unlikely they would have free access, even if they knew what they were looking at. I've found that most people have no idea what they are looking at when they look at a cell tower. Unless they have climbed up the tower, they would not be able to see enough detail to pass judgement
The equipment at the tower/enclosure is just the RF gear. The switching and LTE cores are elsewhere. It would be impossible to judge the quality of the MSO/Core from just looking at a cell site.

Macomb and Oakland counties made the decision NOT to switch anything to AT&T but to stay with Verizon.. I think the state of MI will also continue to use VZ - better coverage in MI except in the UP at&t has a slight lead..

That's fine, there is absolutely no requirement that any agency use FirstNet.

Verizon had the opportunity to bid on the NPSBN contract, but they chose not to. After the fact, they decided to build out essentially the same product using their existing infrastructure. They do not have a dedicated band for it, but they do pretty well using what they have.
There have been many agencies trying to get Verizon and FirstNet to link their LTE cores to allow better interoperability, but so far AT&T has refused to do this.

In some areas, Verizon has absolutely better coverage and if an agency or individual frequents one of those areas, then utilizing Verizon makes a heck of a lot of sense. If an agency or individual is in an area that enjoys better coverage from AT&T/FN, then that would be the better solution.
It's not a game to see who's brand is better. If an agency needs LTE coverage, then they should pick which ever carrier gives them what they need.

Most of the Cradlepoint type devices using by agencies allows more than one SIM card. It's not out of the ordinary for an agency to have a FirstNet SIM card as well as a second carrier to make the best use of what's available.

 

[iMONITOR]

How will various agencies communicate each other in a large scale disaster if everyone is not using FirstNet? I recall they learned a hard lesson on 9/11, especially the Feds! Or maybe they didn't learn?

 

[mmckenna]

How will various agencies communicate each other in a large scale disaster if everyone is not using FirstNet?

With LMR radio. No one is saying LMR needs to go away. There is an option to do PTT over first net, but most agencies are intelligent enough not to do that, at least any one that went through Nextel.

Text Messaging and phone calls will work between carriers. LTE - LMR gateways allow interface with radios. Other gateways can be used to link systems.

I recall they learned a hard lesson on 9/11, especially the Feds! Or maybe they didn't learn?

Lessons learned every day, that's life.

And, no, many haven't learned, or forgot. The wrong people making decisions. But that can happen with anything.

 

[jeepsandradios]

AT&T cell service around here leaves a subscriber wishing for better service.

Yup thats my issue. I have my firstnet phone sitting on the desk next to my PC with no coverage. Alot of places I work has no ATT coverage. Guess dual sims help.