Attention Admins and Folks Submitting TG's for New UCA System

[hazrat8990]

I really appreciate everyone who is submitting data in order to keep the DB updated! That said, I really hate to be a pain, but please try to keep the short alpha tags limited to 14 characters for future submissions. While everything show up great on a scanner display, the same can't be said for a RR import for Unication pagers. With the growing number of folks using them, it only makes sense.

It wouldn't be so bad if the RR import contained all of the info, but instead it ends up cutting everything that doesn't fit. This can be a real pain when a bunch of TG's get imported with the same name. As you can see below, there's a lot of missing info.

 

[mtindor]

I get your point about alpha tag limit. But you say that when you import it cuts off the talkgroup alpha tags. I just used the "Downloads" section of the DB to download a copy of the data in CSV form, which I then loaded into Excel. It shows all 16 chars for those talkgroups with 16-char alpha tags.

 

[GTR8000]

That said, I really hate to be a pain, but please try to keep the short alpha tags limited to 14 characters for future submissions. While everything show up great on a scanner display, the same can't be said for a RR import for Unication pagers. With the growing number of folks using them, it only makes sense.

Limiting the length of the alpha tag in order to cater to one particular device is not permitted, per RR policy:

Database Administrator Handbook Live Version - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

Database Entity Naming

The RR database entities (e.g., frequencies, talkgroups, categories, subcategories, descriptions, alpha tags, etc.) shall never be added, removed, named, renamed or changed to adjust them for a specific device, product or consumer of RR data.

 

[kb9klc]

While it's time consuming, the Unication PPS allows you to change the name to what you'd like to see. Given its limitations, it's the best I could come up with to get stuff in some resemblance of naming I could actually understand for the Zone/Knob positions I have programmed for my home area. You have to get creative with appreciations however.
When out and about I usually just roll with the TG numbers and if it's that important, I'll look it up on the RR database and if it's an area I travel to frequently, I can just add it with a name later. Since when Traveling I usually use a wild card anyway, there's no way I could get everything in there for each WC scan and TG.

 

[hazrat8990]

Limiting the length of the alpha tag in order to cater to one particular device is not permitted, per RR policy:

Database Administrator Handbook Live Version - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

Database Entity Naming

The RR database entities (e.g., frequencies, talkgroups, categories, subcategories, descriptions, alpha tags, etc.) shall never be added, removed, named, renamed or changed to adjust them for a specific device, product or consumer of RR data.

I fully understand the point behind the policy. However, I was merely suggesting the removal of unnecessary, or redundant characters when naming TG's so that short alpha tags are actually short enough to work for EVERYTHING. I've been adding TG's into PPS as soon as they get entered into the DB, so it's really a non issue for me personally. In reality, I'm more concerned about the folks that are new to the G series pagers, or older scanners that lack the ability to display a lengthy alpha tag.

I do believe there can be some sort of compromise since the L3Harris radios that operate on this system only use 12 characters (according to their presentation they used when they sold this system to the state). As an example, something like "Davis Event ##" instead of having all 8 TG's end up being imported as "Davis Co Event". Since "Davis County" is the name of the department, is it really necessary to include "Co" in the channel name? If anything, this will get the tags a bit closer to what they actually are.

These links show examples of how the TG's are set up on 12 character radio display, and also the 14 character display on the dispatch console.

https://www.uca911.org/file/5161dc71-4757-4af1-b358-95515703b01a

https://www.utah.gov/pmn/files/1006559.pdf

I get your point about alpha tag limit. But you say that when you import it cuts off the talkgroup alpha tags. I just used the "Downloads" section of the DB to download a copy of the data in CSV form, which I then loaded into Excel. It shows all 16 chars for those talkgroups with 16-char alpha tags.

The .csv that I posted above is what PPS imported from RR. If you try to import your file into PPS, it will either reject it entirely, or totally skip anything with more than 14 characters.

 

[enosjones]

where we don't know all the info on like which event channels it is exactly since we don't have the actual radios in hand some of us have to guess.. if we could be enlightened further regarding what event number it was that would be helpful.... otherwise we are lucky to know its an event Channel and numbers can be added later....

 

[hazrat8990]

where we don't know all the info on like which event channels it is exactly since we don't have the actual radios in hand some of us have to guess.. if we could be enlightened further regarding what event number it was that would be helpful.... otherwise we are lucky to know its an event Channel and numbers can be added later....

I think you're missing my point. If you look at the example for the events channel that I gave, all 8 of them are already in the DB. The issue that I was pointing out is by adding "Co" into the alpha tag, it ends up making it too long for the channel # to be imported correctly.

Same thing applies to all of the inter-op channels that are circled on the first screenshot. By adding the word "Interop" to the beginning, it cuts off the channel #. A simple edit to the DB to shorten the tag to have "IO-", or "Int" in the beginning will still get the point across, and also make it so all 48 TG's can be imported seamlessly, without having the channel numbers cut off. If you click the link and scroll down to page 14, you will see how the alpha tags are actually programmed into the radios. https://www.uca911.org/file/5161dc71-4757-4af1-b358-95515703b01a

The entire purpose of this thread is to point out that the RR import feature is being made pretty much useless by adding too much info. After all, the Unication pagers are a top choice when it comes to this type of system.

 

[522]

After all, the Unication pagers are a top choice when it comes to this type of system.

Is it ? Sounds like you are the only one here with this issue.

 

[kb9klc]

I fully understand the point behind the policy. However, I was merely suggesting the removal of unnecessary, or redundant characters when naming TG's so that short alpha tags are actually short enough to work for EVERYTHING. I've been adding TG's into PPS as soon as they get entered into the DB, so it's really a non issue for me personally. In reality, I'm more concerned about the folks that are new to the G series pagers, or older scanners that lack the ability to display a lengthy alpha tag.

I do believe there can be some sort of compromise since the L3Harris radios that operate on this system only use 12 characters (according to their presentation they used when they sold this system to the state). As an example, something like "Davis Event ##" instead of having all 8 TG's end up being imported as "Davis Co Event". Since "Davis County" is the name of the department, is it really necessary to include "Co" in the channel name? If anything, this will get the tags a bit closer to what they actually are.

These links show examples of how the TG's are set up on 12 character radio display, and also the 14 character display on the dispatch console.

https://www.uca911.org/file/5161dc71-4757-4af1-b358-95515703b01a

https://www.utah.gov/pmn/files/1006559.pdf

The .csv that I posted above is what PPS imported from RR. If you try to import your file into PPS, it will either reject it entirely, or totally skip anything with more than 14 characters.

Why don't you edit the characters as you see fit? Wouldn't that be the simple answer? OR, what am I missing here? I'd like the Unication to display more characters also but, I don't think a gripe to Unication is gonna do much good. Just curious...

 

[pb_lonny]

I always add my own alpha tags, I never use the standard ones. Just edit them as you see fit?

 

[hazrat8990]

I'm having a hard time understanding why there's so much negativity and push back for simply pointing out a problem that will affect anyone with a Unication device and utilizes the RR import feature. Also, the mention of "catering to a particular device" doesn't really apply in this situation. I've already pointed out the fact that the subscriber radios themselves only display 12 characters. Simply asking for a 14 character limit that excludes unnecessary, or redundant info isn't unreasonable.

Is it ? Sounds like you are the only one here with this issue.

Do you even have one? Obviously, you don't understand the whole point of this thread. This is indeed a problem with the RR import feature as you can clearly see in the screenshots.

Why don't you edit the characters as you see fit? Wouldn't that be the simple answer? OR, what am I missing here? I'd like the Unication to display more characters also but, I don't think a gripe to Unication is gonna do much good. Just curious...

I have used this method for the last 7 years, so it's a non issue for me personally. I was simply bringing attention to this issue while the DB is still being created for this system before it gets too overwhelming.

 

[kb9klc]

I have used this method for the last 7 years, so it's a non issue for me personally. I was simply bringing attention to this issue while the DB is still being created for this system before it gets too overwhelming.

Ok I didn't know that. You didn't post that so I was simply trying to help.Some new comers (and I'm only about 3 months into my "Unication Journey" don't know that. I had no way of knowing you had and, again, I was only trying to help you with something I discovered along my short time in the Unication Pagers.

I'm having a hard time understanding why there's so much negativity and push back for simply pointing out a problem that will affect anyone with a Unication device and utilizes the RR import feature. Also, the mention of "catering to a particular device" doesn't really apply in this situation. I've already pointed out the fact that the subscriber radios themselves only display 12 characters. Simply asking for a 14 character limit that excludes unnecessary, or redundant info isn't unreasonable

I was in no way pushing back. After owning a couple scanners that showed different things on the screens, it's pretty obvious to me, the database while great, is more catered towards devices that show different (longer) descriptions of things. I am thankful that we can import anything to the Unication's, given I am fairly sure the DB is geared more towards scanners, and not any subscriber devices or actual other radios depending on the system. Truthfully I doubt very many subscribers are using the DB import for their radios. I program quite a few Motorola XPR radios for hams for Analog and DMR non trunked stuff and I know I don't. I do use it to get various frequencies and enter them manually. Honestly no mater how they named them, I'd probably change most of them anyway to something I understood clearly what was being received. I have so many TG's in some of my knob positions I've had to use a wild card to get things especially when traveling.

Your post was food for thought however and again, I was simply trying to help.

 

[kb9klc]

I always add my own alpha tags, I never use the standard ones. Just edit them as you see fit?

This, exactly this. I need it to say what I want it to say and understand at a glance, not what someone else thinks it should say.

 

[522]

Do you even have one? Obviously, you don't understand the whole point of this thread. This is indeed a problem with the RR import feature as you can clearly see in the screenshots.

Darn... must not be a big problem. Me nor much of anyone else here is having the issue you are experiencing with your Unication Pagers...
Maybe youre claim to " the Unication pagers are a top choice when it comes to this type of system" may not be true.