Aurora/Naperville OpenSky System
- Thread starter ltginrage
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There was a train - semi accident in Plfd with many depts helping and a real problem talking with each other....Dispatcher for Plfd told Plfd cop if you want to speak to Aurora or Naperville use " WM-PD Wide TG 33977....
Plfd was also using ch 2 TG 1002 and asked Shorewood to switch to that TG but they don’t have it in there radio, so much for interoperability...I know some Joliet cops and they have no idea whats in there radio or where it is
There was an incident one day this week where one agency was trying to contact the helicopter provided by another agency and couldn't get through. It was obvious he was pretty frustrated with the situation and with the fact that no one seemed to know how to fix it.
lu81fitter
Member
Wasn't it a requirement in the past that all patrol vehicles had to have a VHF-HI radio with at least ISPERN on it? Seems silly not to have IREACH as well. Those are the best interop channels you could have.
officerdave
Retired LEO
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- Mar 6, 2008
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Or your can arrive on scene and shout at each other ...... been there !
It once was a requirement, a majority of squad cars I’ve seen in dupage county don’t have a mobile installed. Can speak for county sheriffs or state police. Only the supervisor squads seem to have mobiles. Usually one of the antenna’s on the roof is for cellular reception for the tablets or computers
Every officer should be issued a FRS radio. Interoperability issues solved!
Most still do have a VHF radio... Where people are getting confused is that the one radio that may be in the squad is a dual band or all band radio and only needs 1 antenna for all 3 bands.
lu81fitter
Member
If most all have VHF radios, then what is all the hype about using fancy, multi-million dollar trunked systems for interop? Doesn't IREACH and ISPERN do the job effectively?
I still hear agencies around the west suburbs using IREACH for interop after they spent millions going to/getting on P25 systems so they could all be on one platform and communicate effectively. Sounds to me like good old VHF analog is still the "go to" thing!
I am also curious.... The "hockey puck" style "stealth" antennas may not be bad for 7/800 bands, but their use, especially VHF, would seem to bring up some issues with performance. After all, I think all of the reflective stripes down the side of the vehicle will draw much more attention than a 3-4" whip for 7-800, a 6 incher for UHF, or even an 18" for VHF. What kind of stealth factor are they really looking for?
the hockey puck antenna is not for VHF that is for Cell/Wifi/GPS a multiband antenna looks like a beer bottle with a whip or the old Larsen Scanner antenna with a closed coil in the middle
lu81fitter
Member
I have the Larsen, and a couple of Laird multi-bands, along with a few 18" whips, a few 6 inchers, a couple of UHF gain antennas, a couple 1/4 waves for 7/800, and a couple 7/800 gain antennas as well. I don't have one of the Laird "beer bottle" antennas. Seemed a bit pricey for my taste.
But... I digress.... This is off topic for this thread.
But... I digress.... This is off topic for this thread.
It wasn't a requirement that they all have ISPERN radios in the cars but it was close. Most agencies in Illinois did participate as they got free radios.
In the 60's and 70's the Illinois State Police managed federal LEAA and state grants to provide VHF mobile radios for any police agency that chose to participate. It was controlled by the ISPERN Governing Board that issued permissions and provided the radios. Installations were the responsibility of the local agencies.
The radios originally were 4-channel Motorola & GE 110 watt mobile radios of the era (Mocom, MastR) with F1 as ISPERN (154.680 at first, in 1976 it changed to 155.475). The rules were that you could put other channels in Channels 2,3,4 but not disable the Priority status hardwired to ISPERN/F1. They were not supposed to use them for primary dispatch channels, you had to provide your own radios for that. State issued ISPERN radios were equipped with red mics so officers would know they were using that radio.
If you provided your own VHF radios you could set them up your way but still needed to get permission to have ISPERN in your radios. The State Police held the license (KN3600) for the mobile radios on ISPERN. If your agency had VHF handhelds you could add ISPERN to them as well.
Participating police departments also had to have a base receiver on ISPERN but only a few select centers could actually have a transmitter. These were Chicago PD, Cook County and Lake County Sheriff and the couple dozen State Police posts.
Later on the ISPERN Board relaxed some of the restrictions and turned over official ownership of the radios to the agencies possessing them and stopped issuing the radios altogether. Agencies could then provide their own VHF radios and equip them with ISPERN.
Most agencies in the Chicago area that moved from VHF to T-Band would put their old VHF channel in the F2 slot of the ISPERN radios for car-to-car use and often the local PW channel in F3 for use at night. F4 was often the local fire channel but these layouts varied widely from town to town. Many agencies did defeat the F1 Priority by rewiring the switch even though it was not permitted.
There were operational rules for ISPERN regarding flash messages, pursuits and other interagency communications. Intra-agency operations were generally banned (You could not use ISPERN for routine dispatch if your main channel went out etc.).
Eventually, after IREACH (155.055) was established, the suggested channel plan for ISPERN owned and locally provided radios was:
- F1 ISPERN
- F2 Local Option (often the old VHF dispatch or PW channel)
- F3 IREACH
- F4 Local Option (Often the local fire channel)
apco25
Batlabs OG
ISPERN is patched on SC21 in a variety of ways, as the priority TG for ISP / state guys or as other patches for other users on sub systems. iTTF seems to be the more default mutual aid talkgroups as everyone moves up to SC21. Many agencies aren't installing any mobile radio or only installing a VHF mobile radio that no one knows what to do with or install a multi-band radio that no one knows how to use.
I know of several agencies in NE with multi-band radios or dual radios SC21 and VHF installed where the officers immediately turn off the in car radio and ignore it using only their portable.
Inter-op comsms is almost always a political or training problem vs technology. Most cops and even fire want just ch 1 and 2, or fire dispatch and fireground. Most don't scan either. Add in the millenials and zennials who prefer their phone and direct dialing over using the millions of dollars of radio technology and it gets worse. Many of them view the radio as a nusiance and don't want to use it. Nor were they ever trained on how to use any of this technology effectively. Most department won't address this type of thing and as such all the ability to cross communicate goes unsued and ignored.
I know of several agencies in NE with multi-band radios or dual radios SC21 and VHF installed where the officers immediately turn off the in car radio and ignore it using only their portable.
Inter-op comsms is almost always a political or training problem vs technology. Most cops and even fire want just ch 1 and 2, or fire dispatch and fireground. Most don't scan either. Add in the millenials and zennials who prefer their phone and direct dialing over using the millions of dollars of radio technology and it gets worse. Many of them view the radio as a nusiance and don't want to use it. Nor were they ever trained on how to use any of this technology effectively. Most department won't address this type of thing and as such all the ability to cross communicate goes unsued and ignored.
apco25
Batlabs OG
Pretty sure that was from the old ISP channel layout for VHF. HF1 ispern, HF2 district dispatch HF 3 ireach HF 4 old 155.460 statewide and carried over from the old days.
lu81fitter
Member
Thank you for that information. I found it interesting.
The radio etiquette is usually pretty bad for small departments. Some people hold the mic too close and it all sounds garbled and over-modulated. Others think its cool to hold the mic in their lap and talk to the window while watching traffic go by, and you can't hear them. The problem with not scanning is something that may never be solved. The thinking is, if they don't call me on my channel, I don't need to know. So much for INTER-OP!! Illinois State Police is usually pretty good with the etiquette. Sometimes I'll only listen to them to have a break from the mumblers or the ones eating the mic. It's a welcome relief. Radio etiquette should be a class for everyone. It's not difficult. The way they communicate can save their life.
lu81fitter
Member
Sorry to derail this thread! End of rant!
Your rant was very well explained, I wish we had maybe better training for some in a very important field that lives of very good people defending us in some really tuff times....
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