BCD436HP and Morris County 700 Simulcast System

[hh65flier]

Hello. Relatively new to digital scanning, so bear with me, please. I have a Uniden BCD436HP scanner. Up until about 2 weeks ago, it was picking up Morris County (Morris County Trunking System, Morris County, New Jersey) just fine. Lots of action in Randolph, Morris Plains, Morrsitown, etc. Then, around June 8, a notice appeared on radio reference stating: "As of early June 2023: All public safety now operate on the 700 MHz cell; only public works/county services remain on the UHF cell."

Bummer. My scanner HAS the 700 MHZ freqs loaded for this system, but it's not picking up anything. No "DAT" or signal bars, and certainly no voice.

I'm in Madison, and THEIR new digital system is coming in very strong.

So....is there anyone else in Morris County with the Uniden BCD436HP that is successfully hearing the Morris County network?

Thx!

 

[Coolant113]

I would double-check your programming. Also, make sure you are updating the Master Database on Sentinel and also forcing it to write to the scanner, the latter being important if you are using the master database on the scanner itself. I have a 536 HP, frequent Madison reasonably often, and get full bars on the system pretty much all over the town.

 

[tvengr]

Bummer. My scanner HAS the 700 MHZ freqs loaded for this system, but it's not picking up anything.

700 MHz has new talkgroups.

 

[mshumeyk]

Definitely update your database in sentinel and reload the system. I would set the UHF simulcast to "Avoid" if you havent already and set the ID search to "ON".

If all of your best efforts fail, try taking the scanner to different locations. The 436HP has trouble with simulcast systems depending on your location in relation to the various towers. At best the scanner may miss transmissions or have distorted audio. At worst it may fail to lock onto a control signal even if it is strong. Basically if there are two control signals of similar strength the scanner may not lock onto either, like the donkey that starved to death equidistant between two bales of hay. This happened to me while staying on an upper floor of a hotel in Atlanta and also in Essex County. Couldn't pick up the system in the middle of the system's area but could receive it when I drove to the outskirts.

The SDS 100 and SDS 200 as well as Unication units to not have this problem with Simulcast systems.

 

[hh65flier]

I would double-check your programming. Also, make sure you are updating the Master Database on Sentinel and also forcing it to write to the scanner, the latter being important if you are using the master database on the scanner itself. I have a 536 HP, frequent Madison reasonably often, and get full bars on the system pretty much all over the town.

Thank you for responding! I will definitely update the database and try the "force rewrite" check box. Never really knew what that meant (as opposed to a regular rewrite?). Anyhow...hope it works. There are some youtube videos showing the BCD436HP struggling to pull in 700MHZ simulcast when the SDS100 receives them easily.

LIke you, I am showing "bars" and a flashing "DAT" light which indicated data bursts are being received....I just haven't heard any audio for about a week....and I used to hear it all the time. Have you heard audio for police/fire on the Morris County P25 recently?

 

[hh65flier]

Definitely update your database in sentinel and reload the system. I would set the UHF simulcast to "Avoid" if you havent already and set the ID search to "ON".

If all of your best efforts fail, try taking the scanner to different locations. The 436HP has trouble with simulcast systems depending on your location in relation to the various towers. At best the scanner may miss transmissions or have distorted audio. At worst it may fail to lock onto a control signal even if it is strong. Basically if there are two control signals of similar strength the scanner may not lock onto either, like the donkey that starved to death equidistant between two bales of hay. This happened to me while staying on an upper floor of a hotel in Atlanta and also in Essex County. Couldn't pick up the system in the middle of the system's area but could receive it when I drove to the outskirts.

The SDS 100 and SDS 200 as well as Unication units to not have this problem with Simulcast systems.

Thank you for responding. I did a total removal and reinsertion of the latest database on sentinel.

I'm having problems setting the UHF simulcast to "avoid," however. When actively scanning, The fields under MORRIS COUNTY say "UHF Simulcast" and "700 Simulcast"....quickly flashing back and forth between each. But when you put that DEPT in HOLD, the fields are "Law Enforcement," "UHF County Services (which are things like paratransit buses and other non emergency services), "County Services," Fire/EMS," and "Law Enforcement." Any thoughts on how to set UHF simulcast to avoid?

Not sure what "setting the ID search to ON" means....but I'm looking at the manual now.

 

[Tommygro]

Hello. Relatively new to digital scanning, so bear with me, please. I have a Uniden BCD436HP scanner. Up until about 2 weeks ago, it was picking up Morris County (Morris County Trunking System, Morris County, New Jersey) just fine. Lots of action in Randolph, Morris Plains, Morrsitown, etc. Then, around June 8, a notice appeared on radio reference stating: "As of early June 2023: All public safety now operate on the 700 MHz cell; only public works/county services remain on the UHF cell."

Please let us know what ended up doing the trick. I'm currently seeing the same issue with my 536hp. I haven't had the chance to get a good look at what's going on with mine yet.

 

[GTR8000]

If you don't care about any of the public works talkgroups that remain on UHF, you can safely delete the UHF Simulcast site entirely, leaving only the 700 Simulcast. That's where all public safety is now.

If the DAT indicator is flashing or not appearing when scanning only the 700 cell, then you're having issues locking onto the control channel, and as such you're not going to be decoding any voice. This is a classic symptom of simulcast issues with scanners/receivers that are not optimized for that sort of modulation. The SDS series is, as are other pieces of hardware such as the Unication G series pagers.

Don't worry about setting ID Search on, as all primary talkgroups on the 700 cell are already in the database.

Oh and if you're scanning the entire database, you should not do that and make sure to append the Morris system to a favorite list so that you can narrow down exactly what you're scanning, rather than being at the mercy of the scanner bombarding you with stuff you don't care about.

 

[APX8000]

Just a FYI, my 536 was gangbusters on the UHF cell. It suffers on the 700. Welcome to LSM. I'm also getting slammed from multiple sites.

Madison I get full bars and DFQ.

 

[hh65flier]

Here's an update. I took my BCD436 for a drive around parts of Morris County. It worked GREAT on the Morris County P25 system along the Route 10 corridor from Denville to East Hanover. But entering southern Florham Park, it stopped receiving anything. Madison was just one big black hole. Lots of DAT indications...but no voice. Wish I had known this was gonna happen. Would have paid the extra $200 for the SDS100.

 

[hh65flier]

Definitely update your database in sentinel and reload the system. I would set the UHF simulcast to "Avoid" if you havent already and set the ID search to "ON".

If all of your best efforts fail, try taking the scanner to different locations. The 436HP has trouble with simulcast systems depending on your location in relation to the various towers. At best the scanner may miss transmissions or have distorted audio. At worst it may fail to lock onto a control signal even if it is strong. Basically if there are two control signals of similar strength the scanner may not lock onto either, like the donkey that starved to death equidistant between two bales of hay. This happened to me while staying on an upper floor of a hotel in Atlanta and also in Essex County. Couldn't pick up the system in the middle of the system's area but could receive it when I drove to the outskirts.

The SDS 100 and SDS 200 as well as Unication units to not have this problem with Simulcast systems.

The only thing that brought it to life was going to a different location well outside Madison. Madison is a black hole for this system (on the BCD436HP at least).

 

[mshumeyk]

Wish I had known this was gonna happen. Would have paid the extra $200 for the SDS100.

It's too bad Uniden and the dealers don't have a disclaimer on their ads about the poor simulcast performance of their "P25 Phase 2 Capable" scanners. There was a mad rush for the 436HP when it was released but then came all the posts on RR about the LSM issues. And there was no SDS back then so people tried all kinds of fixes like placing the scanner in a paint can. Even RR posts can be misleading because a member may post that the 436HP works great on a particular system but then someone who buys a 436HP for the same system based on that post runs into the problem you have. It's location, location, location. As I mentioned earlier, the SDS100, SDS200 or Unication G5 is what you would need to monitor the Morris 700 system. We feel your frustration.

 

[GTR8000]

Even RR posts can be misleading because a member may post that the 436HP works great on a particular system but then someone who buys a 436HP for the same system based on that post runs into the problem you have.

This has been a big issue with a few choice members of this site, who feel the need to insist in post after post that there is nothing wrong with the non-SDS scanners when it comes to LSM, and all Uniden scanners are 100% perfect and the 20 scanners they own work great 100% of the time on 100% of the systems they monitor from 100% of the locations they frequent. Give me a break. Neophytes read those posts, see that some of those members have thousands of posts and have been a member forever, and figure "Oh this person knows what he is talking about, I can save some money not going with the SDS series!" only to wind up disappointed and confused.

/rant

 

[hh65flier]

This has been a big issue with a few choice members of this site, who feel the need to insist in post after post that there is nothing wrong with the non-SDS scanners when it comes to LSM, and all Uniden scanners are 100% perfect and the 20 scanners they own work great 100% of the time on 100% of the systems they monitor from 100% of the locations they frequent. Give me a break. Neophytes read those posts, see that some of those members have thousands of posts and have been a member forever, and figure "Oh this person knows what he is talking about, I can save some money not going with the SDS series!" only to wind up disappointed and confused.

/rant

Ha! Well....at least I now know it's not "user error"...and that I've probably exhausted all possible solutions. So....drat! In addition to owning too many drones, I'm probably gonna end up owning too many scanners, too.

I just hope it's at least 10 years before the NEXT technological thing that renders the SDS series less capable.

 

[iMONITOR]

This has been a big issue with a few choice members of this site, who feel the need to insist in post after post that there is nothing wrong with the non-SDS scanners when it comes to LSM, and all Uniden scanners are 100% perfect and the 20 scanners they own work great 100% of the time on 100% of the systems they monitor from 100% of the locations they frequent. Give me a break. Neophytes read those posts, see that some of those members have thousands of posts and have been a member forever, and figure "Oh this person knows what he is talking about, I can save some money not going with the SDS series!" only to wind up disappointed and confused.

/rant

I'm one of those people. But it's true for me, non-SDS scanners work perfectly fine for me at my home area of Macomb Township, Macomb County Michigan. I'm not sure what you're implying by saying "a few choice members on this site"? Do you think we're lying to people? We're not trying to sell anything. The people like yourself that tell others that "only SDS type scanner work on simulcast systems and no others will" are doing members and "neophytes" as you say, a disservice, convincing them to either do without, or spend hundreds more!
What is the harm in suggesting they try before they buy. I understand your personal frustration that you had to pay more to get the results that you wanted but don't discredit those of us that were sucessful doing what we did.

I'm doing nothing special, I'm not even using outdoor antennas, no yagi's, no modifications, no smoke and mirrors. In fact for the MPSCS P25 700-800 system in Michigan, I'm using the stock, supplied back-of-set telescoping whip antenna on the back of the scanner. Both Uniden an Whistler digital scanners work equally well. That's not 100% true for mobile operation. It's works fairly well when I'm stopped but not always great when my SUV is in motion. I never tried my SDS scanners in the SUV so I don't know if they'd perform differently. When I've told people this I always also tell them they might not have the same results and that it's best to go to the forum area for their state and ask people that live in their area. There are hundreds of RR member that have great success with non-SDS scanners and they have saved hundreds of dollars and who doesn't like to do that? I also tell potential buyers to buy from a reputable dealers with good return policies where they can get a full refund it it doesn't work for them. There should be no shame or guilt in doing so. Uniden is advertising all their digital scanners will work with P25 Phase 1 & 2 systems. They do NOT warn buyers that they might not work sell in all situations, shame on them.

Some people bring on their own problems. If you pay hundreds of dollars for a scanner and it's not working well for you, why do you complain about it for two years then cry that you're stuck with it? Return it within the terms of the dealer, get your full refund and then spend the extra money to get the SDS series if that's necessary. Pretty simple really.

Currently I own two SDS200 scanners because I like the displays and the ability to store the entire database within the scanner. But I also own two BCD996P2 scanners work great, so I can compare the differences but I'm not finding any.

 

[GTR8000]

I understand your personal frustration that you had to pay more to get the results that you wanted but don't discredit those of us that were sucessful doing what we did.

I'm not going to bother responding to the rest of your post, but this part I have to address. You must have me confused with someone else, because I have a nice collection of APX subscribers that actually do work perfectly on LSM systems, and never "paid" for a scanner that performed poorly. I stand by everything else I posted.

 

[hh65flier]

ANOTHER UPDATE (which *might* be helpful to others experiencing the same problem with BCD436HP not pulling in LSM signals well): I took someone's advice here and removed ALL UHF (400 MHZ) simulcast options in Sentinel for Morris County P25. This left ONLY 700MHZ simulcast scanning. I then experimented with antennas from other scanners I have. The little stock antenna from the BC125AT (need the RNC adaptor that came with the 436) is actually pulling in audio where the 436 antenna did not. I don't know if I'm getting all the traffic on the Morris County _25....but I'm getting a considerable amount. Some of the traffic I'm hearing is clear. Some is garbled and barely intelligible (with error rates in the 30's....press volume/function/volume for this display). The 436 is struggling, but it's not out of the game yet.

 

[mshumeyk]

The 436 is struggling, but it's not out of the game yet.

Your experience with the 436HP is very typical. Failure to lock onto the control signal first occurred for me in a room on the high floor of a hotel while travelling. Reprogrammed the scanner multiple times with no success, then researched the issue on RR and learned about LSM. Finally got reception when I put the scanner in the bathroom sink upside down with the antenna down the drain. Not very practical. On the other hand, the 436HP performance just about matched that of the SDS100 on the system of my previous home location because I was very close to one tower and shielded from the other by hills. Didn't do well at my office 5 miles away.

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

I'm one of those people. But it's true for me, non-SDS scanners work perfectly fine for me

14.3% as of this posting agree with you according to your poll (only 2 pollsters, assuming you're one of them?)

 

[fxdscon]

make sure you are updating the Master Database on Sentinel and also forcing it to write to the scanner, the latter being important if you are using the master database on the scanner itself.

Thank you for responding! I will definitely update the database and try the "force rewrite" check box. Never really knew what that meant (as opposed to a regular rewrite?).

-
It's not necessary to check the "force write full database" in Sentinel unless you are trying to over-write the master database in the scanner with one of the same date from Sentinel. The only time you would need to check that box would be if the master database in the scanner had somehow been corrupted (for example... a bad SD card), and you were trying to re-write the same date database to the scanner again.... a very rare instance.

Once you update the database in Sentinel with the new weekly update, and Sentinel sees that it has a newer database than the one in the scanner, just writing to the scanner will always (force write) overwrite the older one in the scanner without having to check that box.

When Sentinel sees that the scanner has the same date on the database that it has in your computer, it won't write that database to the scanner again. Each time you write to the scanner for adding frequencies etc, as long as the database dates in the scanner and Sentinel match, the main database in not sent to the scanner again.