Bizarre, repetitive sounds on various cordless phones for years. Questions.

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WeirdyOne

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This sort of falls under Occam's razor. Occam's razor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I've been a telecommunications engineer for a long time, and run a large PBX. I started off a long time ago as a field tech. I've been on thousands of trouble calls. I've seen and heard weird stuff, and I've had more than a few that were hoaxes/jokes.
I'm not doubting anything you said. I, probably more than most people here, would actually believe you. I had to treat all customers with respect, and one thing I learned is that if I ever started getting cocky and not listening to what they were telling me, it almost always bit me in the rear.
The "logical" explanation here is that someone close to you was messing with you. May seem unlikely, but everything you've said points that way.

As for #3:
It's very rare for a central office to be "manned". The days of having guys in the CO are long gone, but it's not unheard of it larger offices. It's unlikely any of those guys would have the time to sit around and do this sort of stuff. The amount of time you are actually on the phone is pretty slim. Someone sitting around for days on end waiting for you to get a call would be very unlikely. Also, CO's are pretty noisy, so there probably would have been lots of noise in the background. I can also tell you that it's really not that much fun, not that I've tried it, but I've certainly had the opportunity. Many services are often multiplexed out of the switch, especially with cable tv sourced phone service. There just are not that many places to tap into your circuit to cause these sorts of issues. VoIP can be harder/easier depending on how you look at it.

I honestly think someone close to you is messing with you.

Indeed. I'm familiar with Occam. :)

So, on this point, relevant question: could someone outside, like, right outside, have the same kind of phone (in the case of the DECT 6.0 phones at least, though I don't know how this explains the cell phone aspect) in an expandable DECT 6.0 phone system, and without the indoor user's knowledge or input, be somehow on the line? Is that possible at all? And keeping in mind that in at least one point everyone in the actual family was present and accounted for, along with both hand sets?
 

mmckenna

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Unlikely, but anything is possible. DECT has a lot of channels, and getting an odd one to pair up with your system is unlikely. Accessing your phone via DECT wouldn't be out of the question, but it's easier to just clip into the part of your line that is twisted pair.
Cable company or not, at some point your service is broken down to twisted pair copper for distribution inside your home. Easy enough to plug in another phone somewhere.
 

WeirdyOne

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Accessing your phone via DECT wouldn't be out of the question, but it's easier to just clip into the part of your line that is twisted pair.
Cable company or not, at some point your service is broken down to twisted pair copper for distribution inside your home. Easy enough to plug in another phone somewhere.

Would doing so allow for two way communication between someone doing that and us, or just eavesdropping?

Also, on the DECT point again, reading online on a cordless communications security page, I read that a skilled hacker with the right software and what it described as a very difficult to find DECT compatible wireless network card, or a very expensive universal software radio, can intercept or monitor DECT conversations. Would this be two way, or (again) just monitoring?

It's the two way nature of what we heard that's most baffling and makes me suspect someone with a phone hovering right outside my friend's house or some such. Except that that person would then have had to follow him when he moved and changed phones which strikes me as incredibly implausible. And it also doesn't account for the times we experienced this while he was on his cell phone.

The twisted pair hypothesis might, though, if that would allow for two way communication.



Reading your post, I have to ask, why do you refer to yourself as; WeirdyOne ?

Just because of how admittedly weird my post was going to be.
 

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Have you ever heard this while talking to someone other than your friend?
 

WeirdyOne

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Have you ever heard this while talking to someone other than your friend?

Only when another friend heard it during a three way call with the first friend. Other than that, nope. Nor he while talking to anyone other than me.

I know what most would conclude from this, but there are three reasons why I don't believe it to be the case.

1) His whole family would have to be in on it, or also victims of it, including his children. And he simply wouldn't do that. I know you don't know him and can't make character assessments, but I do and can. Friend for over 15 years. Trusted confidant. Like a brother. Loathes being deceived and lied to as much as I do. In no uncertain terms, he simply wouldn't do it. Let alone for years and years incessantly. (I know that's not admissible evidence to you guys, but if you knew him, you'd feel similarly I assure you. He's also just not that good an actor, and he has been genuinely frightened and baffled by this over the years.)

2) No motive, and frankly no means. Much of what we heard, while clear and intelligible, overlapped, echoed, and repeated ad infinitum. He doesn't have any recording equipment or software. He doesn't even own a computer. And I've exhaustively searched for these sound files, with the only one I've ever found in years of searching being the one in the link in my first post in this topic. And even then, not in the form we heard it in. And none of the others. So he would have had to own the audio book or whatever it was and then mix them, loop them, etc. and have them ready to play when we were on the phone along with all the other theatrics. It just doesn't add up for me.

3) More pertinently though, there have been other things happening as part of these phenomena, things witnessed by myself and his family, which weren't limited to the phone but also suggest some form of harassment. Those are, however, the things I won't be going into given the already bizarre nature of my questions and statements and people's completely understandable reaction to them. And because I'd like to focus solely on the technological/radio/telecom nature of this. Though... when considering all of that, do keep in mind that there might be someone near or in his life harassing he and his family. That's all I'll say about that.
 
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KevinC

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Have you ever heard this while talking to someone other than your friend?

Only when another friend heard it during a three way call with the first friend. Other than that, nope. Nor he while talking to anyone other than me.

I know what most would conclude from this, but there are three reasons why I don't believe it to be the case.

1) His whole family would have to be in on it, or also victims of it, including his children. And he simply wouldn't do that. I know you don't know him and can't make character assessments, but I do and can. Friend for over 15 years. Trusted confidant. Like a brother. Loathes being deceived and lied to as much as I do. In no uncertain terms, he simply wouldn't do it. Let alone for years and years incessantly. (I know that's not admissible evidence to you guys, but if you knew him, you'd feel similarly I assure you. He's also just not that good an actor, and he has been genuinely frightened and baffled by this over the years.)

2) No motive, and frankly no means. Much of what we heard, while clear and intelligible, overlapped, echoed, and repeated ad infinitum. He doesn't have any recording equipment or software. He doesn't even own a computer. And I've exhaustively searched for these sound files, with the only one I've ever found in years of searching being the one in the link in my first post in this topic. And even then, not in the form we heard it in. And none of the others. So he would have had to own the audio book or whatever it was and then mix them, loop them, etc. and have them ready to play when we were on the phone along with all the other theatrics. It just doesn't add up for me.

3) More pertinently though, there have been other things happening as part of these phenomena, things witnessed by myself and his family, which weren't limited to the phone but also suggest some form of harassment. Those are, however, the things I won't be going into given the already bizarre nature of my questions and statements and people's completely understandable reaction to them. And because I'd like to focus solely on the technological/radio/telecom nature of this. Though... when considering all of that, do keep in mind that there might be someone near or in his life harassing he and his family. That's all I'll say about that.

I hear what you're saying, but the common denominator is your friend.

I'm not here to argue so please don't take it that way. People have known child molesters, mass murderers and serial rapists for years and had no idea they could commit those crimes (and I'm not implying your friend is a criminal).

You've already eliminated a lot of stuff, so you know a bunch of stuff that it's not and it seems to leave you with one thing it could be...but I could be completely wrong. :wink:
 

mmckenna

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I agree, the common denominator here is your friend. I think it's unlikely someone would spend the money to either hack your DECT phone, your cable modem, or whatever just to mess with you. If they used it to steal your visa number while ordering pizza, I'd think we were on to something. Just too much work/too much money to do nothing more than make strange sounds on your phone. Everyone knows that the correct place to make funny noises and say weird things is on the CB.

The fact that this seems to follow changes in residences, and phone providers, seems to suggest the obvious.
 

WeirdyOne

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I get why you feel that way, as I said. But putting that aside, barring him being the culprit...

... how would it be done? As, lets call it, an extreme hypothetical scenario? Just assume for the sake of argument it wasn't him.
 

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I get why you feel that way, as I said. But putting that aside, barring him being the culprit...

... how would it be done? As, lets call it, an extreme hypothetical scenario? Just assume for the sake of argument it wasn't him.

Theoretical answer, this has happened via too many mediums (cell, landline, VoIP, etc..) for a definitive answer.

And since this is the tavern, how do we know you aren't asking this so YOU can do it to someone??? Hmm...:D
 

WeirdyOne

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Theoretical answer, this has happened via too many mediums (cell, landline, VoIP, etc..) for a definitive answer.

And since this is the tavern, how do we know you aren't asking this so YOU can do it to someone??? Hmm...:D

Actually, that's a fair point. I would ask that people in their replies not give away any information that might enable others to harass or harm anyone. That should probably go without saying, but it's a good reminder.

So... just to finish this off I guess since we aren't getting anywhere really beyond where we already have...

Can everyone just respond to the following:


Is it your final assessment that:

1) The most probable scenario is either that I am hoaxing you (I'm not, but it's a fair hypothesis,) or that my friend is hoaxing me.

2) It is improbable to the point of being prohibitive for someone to have intercepted our cell, DECT, and other phone calls in a manner allowing two way communication...

3) That, hypothetically, IF someone were doing this to harass myself or my friend or both, it would have to be someone at either a) The central office/server level, b) someone at the twisted pair, and/or c) someone with the legal authority to do this directly.

and finally,

4) That, again hypothetically IF someone were actually doing this, they would have to be very close to one or both of us, so much so that it would require them following us around (stalking basically) as we moved from location to location...

?

After those of you willing to do so answer that, I'll end this as I doubt I can learn much more. I do appreciate the answers, and you've given me a lot to think about.
 

KevinC

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I'll interject one more comment.

It's entirely possible someone has "hacked" into all these devices, but the knowledge and effort required would seem to waaay outweigh the results. That's a lot of work to just mess with somebody...unless he used to work for the CIA/DIA or some other agency that we don't even know about. Another hmm...

And I'm not trying to belittle you.

Good luck in trying to solve this mystery.
 

mmckenna

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Is it your final assessment that:

1) The most probable scenario is either that I am hoaxing you (I'm not, but it's a fair hypothesis,) or that my friend is hoaxing me.

Giving you the benefit of the doubt here. You've spent a lot of time typing all this out, so I'll assume you are really serious, or are just doing this as a psychological experiment. If it is a psychological experiment, it is an interesting one.
So, yeah, based on everything, and not personally knowing you or your friend, and using Occam's Razor, and, this being just an internet forum where nothing is -really- serious:
Yeah, your buddy is pulling your chain, or at least someone else close to you.

2) It is improbable to the point of being prohibitive for someone to have intercepted our cell, DECT, and other phone calls in a manner allowing two way communication...

Yes. It would take a lot of hardware, time and being in close proximity (to hack DECT) to do this. Based on the amount of time you have suggested this went on, plus the various locations, I'd find it unlikely that someone went through all this, spent all that time, and all that money for no reason other than to creep you out. Unless your visa card got hacked, etc. there just isn't any logical reason why someone would go through all this trouble.

There have been a fair amount of people that have come on this site convinced that someone is using some sort of voodoo radio waves to upset their health, home, mental state, etc. and are thoroughly convinced that someone out there is really taking that much time and effort to do that, especially where there are much easier ways to do it. To hack a DECT system, they'd have to be close, or have some pretty high gain antennas. DECT is pretty low power, so we really are talking about a few hundred feet at the most. Why someone would hang out that close to you (or your friend) for hours, days, weeks, just waiting for a specific phone call sort of rules this out.

3) That, hypothetically, IF someone were doing this to harass myself or my friend or both, it would have to be someone at either a) The central office/server level, b) someone at the twisted pair, and/or c) someone with the legal authority to do this directly.

OK, sure, but why? And what "legal authority"? Why would there be "legal authority" to harass you on the phone for no obvious reason? No offense, but this is when it starts to sound a bit like paranoia. Unless you are of very high value, there is little, if any, reason why someone with "legal authority" would bother doing this. If you were such a high value target, why are you using consumer phone service, DECT gear, etc?

4) That, again hypothetically IF someone were actually doing this, they would have to be very close to one or both of us, so much so that it would require them following us around (stalking basically) as we moved from location to location...

Yeah, and why would someone waste so much time doing this for no financial gain? Again, show us how they did something to make this worthwhile, and I'll see a reason. But so far, you haven't provided it.

What many people fail to understand is that "they" really don't care what is going on in your day to day life. "They" don't waste their time hacking into systems to say weird things while two friends are talking on the phone. There is no reason for "they" to make themselves known to you. If someone really wants to do you harm, they are not going to do things to raise your suspicion. Any form of "consumer" communications can be tapped, and it can be done silently and without your knowledge, especially in todays IP world.
Like the old saying goes: It's not the things that go "bump" in the night you need to worry about. It's the things that sneak up silently.
 

WeirdyOne

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@mmckenna

Oh, I completely concur. None of the questions asked should imply a belief or suspicion on my part in anything of a "spooky" nature going on here. I was just trying to quantify the opinion of yourself and others here in an order of probability before signing off and mulling it all.

Given what you know - and as you said, you don't know me or my friend from a hole in the wall - it's perfectly reasonable to assume that the most logical, probable scenario is my friend hoaxing me for many, many years. I absolutely, 100% concede that. No argument from me on that point.

The problem is that, given what I know of my friend - which is extremely intimate and in depth - his personality profile, his tendencies, his psychology, and his means and motive (or lack thereof,) I literally can't conceive of how or why he would do this. Could he just be a whacko? Sure. That's always a possibility. (Just as I could just be a whacko for all any of you know.) But for me, that leap would be almost just as preposterous as the notion that some spook (literal or figurative lol) is stalking he or I for years on end for no good reason.

I will say this much. To quote Spock, who was in turn quoting Sherlock Holmes, "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." And you have all helped me eliminate some until now probable possible explanations (such as random interference.)

What I'm left with is a little different than what you are left with, because I have a different set of evidence and insight into the situation than anyone here does. I haven't said everything, because a) it would come off as even more insane sounding, and b) it would violate my friend and more importantly his family's privacy. But I will say that while I concede the logic and reason behind making my friend the prime suspect, I am not persuaded by the preponderance of evidence I have before me personally.

Take that as you will.

I thank you and everyone else here for their input and insights. I hope it will bring us a little closer to understanding what's going on... or at least what isn't. I truly appreciate you all indulging this obviously very dubious tale. I'll take my leave now and go mull all of this over.

Best wishes.
 

zz0468

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Given what you know - and as you said, you don't know me or my friend from a hole in the wall - it's perfectly reasonable to assume that the most logical, probable scenario is my friend hoaxing me for many, many years.

Close... The most logical, probable scenario is YOU hoaxing us. It's that Occam's Razor thing again. It would take even your friend (or anyone else) a considerable amount of effort and skill to perpetrate such a hoax on you. It would take you several minutes at a computer keyboard and an internet connection to perpetrate the hoax on us.

...I haven't said everything, because a) it would come off as even more insane sounding...

Lay it on us, if you can do it without violating your friend's privacy. Hoax or not, this thread is definitely entertaining. Perhaps that would add to the entertainment value.

I thank you and everyone else here for their input and insights. I hope it will bring us a little closer to understanding what's going on... or at least what isn't. I truly appreciate you all indulging this obviously very dubious tale. I'll take my leave now and go mull all of this over.

I don't know that we're any closer to understanding anything. It's a bizarre tale, and although technologically "do able", the effort to do this is beyond anything that would make any sense. At least based on what you've given us to work with.

Since the start, I have been 100% certain that you're holding back on the key piece of data that we would need. You write very well... I don't know that you're hoaxing us with the intention of such, or whether this is just research for some other project. A screenplay, maybe. Or as someone else said, a psychology experiment. A thesis on the gullibility of people on the internet? I think the one thing we can be almost certain of is, the events you describe never actually occurred. Without evidence, that's the only conclusion I can come to.
 
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WeirdyOne

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Close... The most logical, probable scenario is YOU hoaxing us. It's that Occam's Razor thing again. It would take even your friend (or anyone else) a considerable amount of effort and skill to perpetrate such a hoax on you. It would take you several minutes at a computer keyboard and an internet connection to perpetrate the hoax on us.

All also true. I can assure you that that is not the case, but don't blame anyone for not believing that. Hence, as I said, taking my leave now to go and mull all of this. Little more can come of it. And I have no desire to convince anyone. I've gotten the pertinent answers and information I'm going to get, and that was all I ever hoped to gain by coming here and asking these questions of the community.



Lay it on us, if you can do it without violating your friend's privacy. Hoax or not, this thread is definitely entertaining. Perhaps that would add to the entertainment value.

I choose not to both for the aforementioned privacy reasons, and because it would only add to everyone's incredulity and lead me no closer to an explanation. I have no desire to entertain myself or anyone else. I asked some questions. I got some answers. That's it, honestly.


I don't know that we're any closer to understanding anything. It's a bizarre tale, and although technologically "do able", the effort to do this is beyond anything that would make any sense. At least based on what you've given us to work with.

When I say "we," I mean my friend and I. The answers received here have helped us eliminate one or two possibilities we had been considering, or at least reduce their probability considerably. I agree that it doesn't make sense. That's why it's so baffling and, honestly, why I had hoped something like simple interference would be a plausible explanation.

Since the start, I have been 100% certain that you're holding back on the key piece of data that we would need.

As I have conceded and attempted to explain, yes. I'm not holding it back to be tantalizing or mysterious. I simply know how you'd all react (based on the reactions that have already happened,) and don't wish to expose my friend's family's privacy. They don't deserve that just to sate my curiosity. And I'm not going to "tease" this additional info like I've seen verified hoaxers do before just to drag a story out in the hopes of garnering attention. On the contrary, unless anyone has any additional insights or hypotheses, I'm essentially - with all respect and gratitude - done.

You write very well... I don't know that you're hoaxing us with the intention of such, or whether this is just research for some other project. A screenplay, maybe. Or as someone else said, a psychology experiment. A thesis on the gullibility of people on the internet?

None of the above. As I said, I don't expect you to believe that, but I can only reiterate that I am not being deceptive in any way, shape, or form. Again, I don't expect you to believe that though and am okay with that.

I think the one thing we can be almost certain of is, the events you describe never actually occurred. Without evidence, that's the only conclusion I can come to.

And that's perfectly fair and reasonable. As I said, little more will come from going over it again and again. I've received the only answers I seem likely to receive, and they have, believe it or not, been educational and helpful and I'm grateful for them. But what else is there to be gained from this point forward other than escalating accusations of deception or insanity? And that helps neither myself nor anyone else here.

So as I said, unless anyone has an additional hypothesis to contribute, I gratefully bow out now. Thank-you.
 

zz0468

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...As I said, I don't expect you to believe that, but I can only reiterate that I am not being deceptive in any way, shape, or form. Again, I don't expect you to believe that though and am okay with that.

And to be fair to you, that's exactly the way I feel about the tales I have from living in a genuinely haunted house for 8 years. I don't expect anyone to believe me when I talk about it, yet I was there and lived it, and it is/was quite real. Good luck to you, and thanks for a most interesting thread. :wink:
 

mmckenna

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I've learned something for doing this line of work for so long.
That is that when the "other" person doesn't have the technical chops to figure out the issue on their own, the also don't have the knowledge to decide what is, and what is not, pertinent data.
Without all the information, none of us could fully guess what the cause is.
It's up to us to make an educated guess.
Since you admittedly haven't provided all the information, that is all we can do, is guess.

I've also learned that anything is possible.

The limited information you have provided doesn't lead to a logical technical answer.

It almost seems like you are fishing for a supernatural cause. A supernatural cause would be difficult, if not impossible, to prove or disprove. If I heard or witnessed it myself, I'd probably feel the same way.

The technician/engineer side of me isn't finding a logical reason for this happening, not with the information you've provided. That leaves two options: Supernatural, or hoax.

Hoax seems much more likely. Not necessarily you hoaxing us, but someone doing something.

It has been entertaining, to say the least.
 

WeirdyOne

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And to be fair to you, that's exactly the way I feel about the tales I have from living in a genuinely haunted house for 8 years. I don't expect anyone to believe me when I talk about it, yet I was there and lived it, and it is/was quite real. Good luck to you, and thanks for a most interesting thread. :wink:

I can relate, entirely. Though, ironically, I am extremely skeptical of claims of supernatural activity. So the incredulity you feel toward my claims I also feel toward yours lol. (Though, being an agnostic skeptic, I would never assert for a fact that they didn't happen. Precisely because I too have experienced things I can't adequately explain.) Good luck to you as well, and thank-you for your replies and thoughts.

I've learned something for doing this line of work for so long.
That is that when the "other" person doesn't have the technical chops to figure out the issue on their own, the also don't have the knowledge to decide what is, and what is not, pertinent data.
Without all the information, none of us could fully guess what the cause is.
It's up to us to make an educated guess.
Since you admittedly haven't provided all the information, that is all we can do, is guess.

I've also learned that anything is possible.

Also completely true, and reasonable. No argument from me. Your conclusions are rational. The lack of ability to determine what might or might not be pertinent is precisely why I asked the questions I have.

The limited information you have provided doesn't lead to a logical technical answer.

It almost seems like you are fishing for a supernatural cause. A supernatural cause would be difficult, if not impossible, to prove or disprove. If I heard or witnessed it myself, I'd probably feel the same way.

That much I can say I'm not doing. On the contrary, I was hoping for a very straightforward, perfectly commonplace explanation to this. Interference maybe, combined with the seeming "responses" to us being coincidental or some such. But that seems to have been ruled out or at least rendered very improbable.

I'm extremely skeptical towards the entire notion of anything paranormal or spiritual. When I was younger I was very spiritual, but I have become far more skeptical and rigorous as I've aged.

If anything, I think there might be someone trying to make us think this is something supernatural, but in reality is some form of harassment. The only other thing I can think of would be some kind of bizarre attempt at a psyop or some such but there is no reason that would be being perpetrated against us. We're nobody. As stated by everyone here (myself included,) it makes no sense. Hence my hope for a simpler explanation.

The technician/engineer side of me isn't finding a logical reason for this happening, not with the information you've provided. That leaves two options: Supernatural, or hoax.

Hoax seems much more likely. Not necessarily you hoaxing us, but someone doing something.

I definitely feel it's some human being doing something, somewhere. I just don't believe it's my friend, personally. But I understand why without additional information others would conclude that it's him.

Personally, if someone held a gun to my head and forced me to guess based on what I know and what you've all contributed here, I'd say it was someone - for an unknown reason - in close proximity to him harassing he and his family. Though as others here correctly point out, the lengths to which they have gone seem extreme and unreasonable unless identity or monetary theft were involved, given that neither of us have any ties or familial ties (no recent, relevant ones at least) to anything of a shady or official nature.

It has been entertaining, to say the least.

Well I'm glad you got that out of it at least. Though that was never my intent, it's better than being angry or annoyed I suppose. Thank-you. I hope I haven't incurred anyone's ire here. I swear I was just trying to expand my knowledge of the possibilities involved.
 

mmckenna

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If you ever determine what the source is, let us know. Learning from these sorts of things makes it worthwhile.
 
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