Bureau of Land Management Nationwide Administrative Unit Map

kd7ckq

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Over The Air verifying information. You will see how the structure of that information changes. Just look at Kaibab NF in the database. Look at how much was depreciated. The depreciated data looks exactly like how it would be structured from that page. Yet, when OTA verification happens. Now look at how the Kaibab NF database changed. It just needs to be tweaked to show simplex with carrier squelch or cs/0.00. Or to show the repeaters with cs/0.00 and simplex having tones. Condensed, OTA verified and 100% accurate. You wont miss a thing.
 
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GTR8000

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I think official agency directories are nearly as good of a source as on the air confirmation. I've been told these directories are used by other units in an agency and other agencies to program radios for the year. When we traveled we used them to update our scanners and had good experiences nearly 100% of the time. Some stuff submitted after field confirmation has more errors than the directories. I won't elaborate as I don't want to sound too negative.

If we wait until those freqs are verified we won't have any info for the Kaibab NF. The existing listings support your perspective and mine at the same time. Perhaps we don't list individual repeaters at all unless they each transmit the input tone on the output frequency. One DB admin for Montana says that it is RR policy not to list rptr access tones. Yet, I see listings in many states that do that.

I'm discouraged. I've got a lot of current info to share, but the many opinions and discussions about how it should be set up are not productive. With my life situation now allowing me more time than late hubby had, I'm doing more research and finding more than he had. There is no way to share it if everything has to be field verified first. The bottom line of that requirement is that the federal agencies, especially those of widespread and remote agencies of the land management agencies will rarely show current information. I have no interest in that convoluted wiki thing so I won't be able to share it there. Some of my submissions haven't been posted after a couple of months so I guess they won't be used. I was naive as to how my hubby's notebooks and my additional research could be used here. I'm a newbie on this site, a little over 7 months, so I'm learning by experience and in the meantime please forgive. When I submit again I will keep all this in mind.
I would suggest reviewing official RRDB policies, where it's made pretty clear that only confirmed, personally verified data is to be added. Official agency directories may seem like the definitive source for these listings, but sadly they frequntly contain errors that would never be caught unless someone verifies over the air.

The goal of the RR database is to catalog accurate, confirmed data contributed by our vast group of users.



And as far as listing public safety repeater input tones, there's a policy for that as well, made very clear here:

 

zerg901

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PaysonScanner - seems to me that if you come up with info for a particular area, you can always post it in the appropriate forum, and ask if anyone local can confirm it.
 

Paysonscanner

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Thanks everyone for your understanding, like I say I'm a newbie who is just figuring out some things about this site. My late husband was a member from about 2002 to 2010. His account profile name was something like "foothillengineer," "Sierraengineer" or "cengineer." I know it had the word engineer in it. The USFS directory in CA, put out by the smokejumpers in Redding was pretty accurate as we traveled around the state verifying it. Hubby had a source of them that he collected from about 1993 to 2017. Then he passed and his source's dementia got so bad that I haven't gotten one since. We both occasionally lurked after he cancelled his account so I'm real inexperienced here. I appreciate everyone patiently providing me with links to the policy and for the suggestion to post the info to help get it verified. I'm still concerned that given the wide remote areas involved for federal land management agencies confirmation may never occur. The Arizona Strip District of the BLM comes to mind. Also, most people seem interested in LE only and since most people in the U.S. live in urban areas (about 85%) that is where the verification policy is successful. Combine that with 50% of the country living on the Pacific or Atlantic coasts it is more likely to have a lot of interest there. There is the added factor of the small percentage of members who actually do the work to submit and verify. So finding someone who has been to Hanksville, Utah and is a scanner listener who contributes to RR is a longshot. Policy is policy though and I didn't mean to step on that. My research will go on, just like I've been doing with my Dad's help, but now I won't be taking so much time to type the submissions. No problems here!
 

Paysonscanner

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Did you know there are two errors on that page? You wouldn't know this if you just copied what was there. The page was correct on the 2017 guide. I never got to look at a 2018 guide. But, the 2019 guide has two line errors on that page. I don't think you would even notice the errors even you spent a week camping in Kaibab NF.
Don't get discouraged. Share, but lets verify. That's what the forums are here for. They are here so we can share that info, discuss it, OTA verify it, and then submit it.
Yup, I saw those right away! They listed the repeater RX frequencies when they should show simplex use. Like a lot of California national forests they use 103.5 on the simplex of their nets. This kinda sticks out like a sore thumb! I don't like that their spreadsheet program drops all the zeros, your brain gets so used to freqs having 4 digits right of the decimal. Daddy says that R3 of the USFS is a pretty good region, but was behind R5 and R6. He saw a lot of engineering documents from all the regions, plus worked some short term jobs in every region except Alaska and the southern states. He worked for the FS for 36 years and some months, plus went on big fires all over, so I value his input. Dad's 92 and Mom's 90, but don't show symptoms of dementia. They have both taken to computers very well and even Mom chimes in sometimes with some radio info she has found.
 

Paysonscanner

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PaysonScanner - seems to me that if you come up with info for a particular area, you can always post it in the appropriate forum, and ask if anyone local can confirm it.
Thanks for this. I'm starting to formulate how I'm going to proceed. Spending time on the federal agencies is needed since there isn't license data to get started. Many are called, but few are chosen is the old expression, but in this case only a small number of "few" choose to do the work of submitting data.
 

kd7ckq

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Thanks everyone for your understanding, like I say I'm a newbie who is just figuring out some things about this site. My late husband was a member from about 2002 to 2010. His account profile name was something like "foothillengineer," "Sierraengineer" or "cengineer." I know it had the word engineer in it.
What was his first name? If you don't mind me asking.
 

milf

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I would suggest reviewing official RRDB policies, where it's made pretty clear that only confirmed, personally verified data is to be added. Official agency directories may seem like the definitive source for these listings, but sadly they frequntly contain errors that would never be caught unless someone verifies over the air.

The goal of the RR database is to catalog accurate, confirmed data contributed by our vast group of users.



And as far as listing public safety repeater input tones, there's a policy for that as well, made very clear here:

TDMA “slot” numbers shall also be placed in the Description field.

This has been changed and we need to update it... The DB now supports full DMR set up in the tone fields: CC XX|TG XXXXX|SL X where CC is Color Code, TG is Talk Group, SL is Time Slot... There is still a LOT of places in the DB where we need to go in again and remove Input Tone listings, and delete the DMR in the desc fields, and eliminate the Encryption status in the Desc... Its an always ongoing process.
 

Paysonscanner

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TDMA “slot” numbers shall also be placed in the Description field.

This has been changed and we need to update it... The DB now supports full DMR set up in the tone fields: CC XX|TG XXXXX|SL X where CC is Color Code, TG is Talk Group, SL is Time Slot... There is still a LOT of places in the DB where we need to go in again and remove Input Tone listings, and delete the DMR in the desc fields, and eliminate the Encryption status in the Desc... Its an always ongoing process.
Thank you for being an administrator. As I've posted many times it can't be easy. It would take a lot more time than Dad and I have.
 

fleef

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I have a question at the end of this post I would like to get feedback on.

Hey, I thought that if I posted a U.S. Forest Service map showing all the ranger districts, why not post a map of the BLM's nationwide State-District-Field Office map? Like the Forest Service ranger district map this BLM map can help listeners figure out some of the radio traffic and callsign numbers. The BLM has a 4 number callsign for nearly everything with very few exceptions. The numbering system uses the district number for the first digit, the unit is next the next digit, which can be district office staff or field offices, the third digit indicates the management function (resources, recreation, lands/realty, oil & gas and others) and the last number is the individual or apparatus. For example, in Arizona there are 4 districts, Arizona Strip (1), Phoenix (2), Colorado River (3) and Gila (4). The district manager in Phoenix would be 2000, the Hassayampa Field Office manager would be 2100 and the Lower Sonoran Field Office Manager would be 2200. An individual might have a callsign of 2240 and the 4 might be recreation with this person being in charge of it and supervises 2241, 2242, etc. The Lower Sonoran Field Office has numbers starting with 2200, the Agua Fria National Monument begins with 2300 and the Sonoran Desert National Monument begins with 2400.

Anyway, here is a link to the BLM national map,

BLM Administrative Boundaries Map

Here is a link to more localized maps, some showing admin boundaries in a state. It is tough to find anything at this site because the maps are listed chronologically and not geographically or in alphabetical order. In spite of that Dad and I have found some interesting maps here. Dad is a map nerd, but then he started as a seasonal survey aid in 1949 and as a civil engineer in 1951. My dear late husband was a map nerd and civil engineer also. Not only are these maps hard to find, there are 58 pages of them.

BLM :Maps

My dad noticed that the RR database listings don't show the BLM units correctly and have left off the district level of the agency. He reminds us that dispatching and frequency assignments, as well as callsign numbering are based on the district level. All that is listed is field offices and someone called some of the districts, field offices. I would like to know if people think agencies like the BLM should be listed using the levels that the agencies use for line officer delegation and geographical units. Without the district level being shown it is confusing trying to figure out callsigns and district radio nets. I have the listings of numbers for a few state offices and if I submit them along with the frequency info it will help listeners. This paragraph was dictated by Dad and he is a detail nerd as well.

I've gathered enough information to update a lot of the federal database pages, which takes time. A lot of these federal pages are out of date. I'm afraid that when I submit the info it won't reflect the official agency information I have.
Thanks for posting. & yay!! Another girl! (I think? based on your prof. pic) I joined a long time ago, but members still assume I am a guy. Thought my profile was feminine enough but guess not.
 

Paysonscanner

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Thanks for posting. & yay!! Another girl! (I think? based on your prof. pic) I joined a long time ago, but members still assume I am a guy. Thought my profile was feminine enough but guess not.
Yup, another girl! I've had my ham license since 1973. My dad helped me get my tech ticket a month after high school graduation. He worked for over 36 years as a civil engineer for the U.S. Forest Service so we moved around a little bit. Daddy had a "scanner" going quite a bit. We listened to the Forest Service most of the time. In the late 1950's and early 1960's there weren't any scanners so Daddy had a tunable radio as the Forest Service had VHF low band radios then. The crystal Regency radios came along sometime about 1969-1970. He had to have the receiver tuned higher as scanners then could only handle about a 5 MHz range of frequencies. The radio techs at the Forest Service were happy to do so.

Then it was off to college, marrying a wonderful guy, 39 years of a nursing career, his poor health for about a year before he passed and then I decided to move home to take care of my 92 year old father and mother of 90. I spent a year at home in California after hubby died, but it was very hard. We lived there in the same little town for 40 years. My parents needed an in home nurse and I needed my family. When I got my tech license and got on the air it was rare to hear a female voice. Now it is more common. The avatar picture is somewhere like 20+ years old, but it was my husband's favorite. I'm going to change it as soon as I get our new printer/scanner working. I've got a good baby picture that is my favorite.

Now I can hear the guys on this site, "chicks getting off topic and being too chatty." I posted the picture so people didn't think I'm a guy.
 

Paysonscanner

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What was his first name? If you don't mind me asking.
I missed your post and my in home care is taking up more time than ever. I apologize for the delayed response. I don't mind you asking, but have to maintain privacy. Women have to be more careful, unfortunately. I hope you understand. I can give you a partial answer. As far as I'm concerned his first name was "sweetie." I called him that far more often than by his first name.
 

Paysonscanner

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What was his first name? If you don't mind me asking.
I used to be more open and social. Keep in mind that births, deaths, marriages, divorces, arrests and property ownership are available as public records. You would not believe the deluge of offers for legal and financial services I received within a month of my dear hubby's passing. I had attorneys and financial planners coming at me for months. This from all over the state, Sacramento, Socal, San Francisco and San Diego. One even drove up from the valley and had my physical address. I shared my thoughts of his arrival and motivation for several minutes on my porch. It is one reason I moved, besides that I love my parents and they needed my help and I needed theirs.
 

kd7ckq

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I asked because I would chat every now and then with a guy here on RR who was a old USFS guy from CA. I haven't seen him around in awhile. Sent him stuff but he never could figure out how to attach documents to send stuff back. Part of your story match what he told me. Just wanting to check if it was him.
Not trying to dox you as your suggesting. I'll just move on.
 

Paysonscanner

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"Old
I asked because I would chat every now and then with a guy here on RR who was a old USFS guy from CA. I haven't seen him around in awhile. Sent him stuff but he never could figure out how to attach documents to send stuff back. Part of your story match what he told me. Just wanting to check if it was him.
Not trying to dox you as your suggesting. I'll just move on.
Kinda sounds like dad who retired from the FS over 30 years ago, but he's never had a RR account. Dad's jobs were all in Arizona, but he did some work on projects on the Shasta and Sequoia NFs for 60-90 days, but all of that in the 1950's. Dad is still good using a slide rule, but taking into account he's 92 is pretty good with computers. Both hubby and I lived near a national forest. He was a civil engineer for a county public works department. He once built his own computer from parts he bought from Frye's in the 1990s so he was a whiz at computers. He was disappointed when Heath Kits shut down, he built our stereo, some radio related items, stuff to fix our cars and more from them. I'm sharp with some health care software, but depended on hubby for teaching me ways to use the home computer. Both daddy and hubby were civil engineers and hams, like peas in a pod those two. Hubby's first name was unmistakably Scandinavian, which he more or less stopped using in college cause no one could pronounce it!
 

ecps92

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Are you referencing [Fred] exsmokey ?
He left RR a few years ago due to philisophical differences

I asked because I would chat every now and then with a guy here on RR who was a old USFS guy from CA. I haven't seen him around in awhile. Sent him stuff but he never could figure out how to attach documents to send stuff back. Part of your story match what he told me. Just wanting to check if it was him.
Not trying to dox you as your suggesting. I'll just move on.
 
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