Caledonia situation

Status
Not open for further replies.

EJB

20 + year membership
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
3,644
Location
Downtown Hamilton
mancow said:
What/why are they protesting?

It seems like here in the States we hear absolutely nothing about Canada, ever. It's like it doesn't even exist to our media.

Lets keep it that way, best to be out of your limelight these days.
:)

A developer wants to build houses on what is, they claim to be, native land.
The 6 Nations reserve is very poor, no one would listen to their cliams so it seems they started blocades and now every one is mad and everyone and we have a crises on our hands.
 

jellotor

Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2004
Messages
1,077
Location
Hamilton, ON
EJB said:
The 6 Nations reserve is very poor, no one would listen to their cliams so it seems they started blocades and now every one is mad and everyone and we have a crises on our hands.

Eric, not to nitpick, but I think you'd be surprised how much money there is on the 6 Nations.

Anyway, for mancow's benefit, here's the precis version of why there's a big stink in Caledonia.

The Iroquois Confederacy (and bear in mind the Confederacy is an extra-national organization that includes aboriginals from Canada and the US) have always claimed the lands along the Grand River--I believe it is six miles either side of the Grand River--belongs to them as part of a 200 year old treaty, called the Haldimand Grant. For those of you who aren't familiar with the area, start with a map of the north shore of Lake Erie and find Dunnville. Trace the length of the Grand River through Caledonia and K-W/Cambridge all the way up to the Wellington-Dufferin-Grey area. That's a lot of land.

The Confederacy claims the Douglas Creek Estates (DCE) are part of the Haldimand Grant. They are quite close to the Six Nations. If you look at a map of the south of Caledonia, everything to the north of the 6th Line of Oneida and west of Argyle Street is in dispute.

The protestors are frustrated with the speed of the land claims process which generally takes decades to resolve. In the meantime, developers (who may or may not have known about the land claim issue on the land they purchased) were allowed to continue to build on the land. This lead to the occupation of the land itself by aboriginals back in late January or early February.

Despite some hysteria by the townspeople the occupation of the land was peaceful and the protestors were open and welcoming of the media at that point. However, Henco (the developers) took the Ontario Provincial Police to court and obtained an injunction from a judge ordering the OPP to remove the protestors from the site. The OPP 'raided' the site early one morning but were faced with an increased presence from the protestors. The OPP then withdrew and the protestors barricaded Argyle Street just north of the DCE property. Further barricades went up later on Hwy 6 to the west.

At this point, rhetoric from both sides was amped up significantly. Townspeople who were concerned but generally understanding of the protest before were now angry at having the street blocked. (This is the main north-south artery in the area leading from/to Caledonia.) Tire bonfires on the street unnerved some. Somewhat racial statements from both sides also caused problems...and when the OPP were unable to keep the two sides separated during a series of scuffles, the townspeople began to organize and threaten lawsuits.

Last Friday, the situation came to a head. The protestors had been acting increasingly boldly after finally opening up Argyle Street to traffic. They were detaining vehicles that stopped in the vicinity of DCE and demanding to see the licenses of the drivers, claiming they had authority from the OPP. An elderly couple faced this type of incident last Friday and two of our shooters, both of whom had been threatened in the past, were attacked by protestors while the OPP stood idly by and did nothing. A camera was taken, the tape removed, and later returned. Our guy needed two staples to close a wound in his head.

The fallout from this lead to increased violence. Again, the OPP seemed unwilling to do anything but arrest Caledonia townspeople while the protestors assaulted a group of observers from the US ATF, stole their vehicle and attempted to run down an OPP constable.

As a result, 7 arrest warrants have been issued for protestors involved in last Friday's events. The 7 accused have left the DCE site for Six Nations, where the OPP (who have pledged not to set foot on Six Nations land to execute the warrants) have been negotiating their surrender. As of yesterday, the barricades are down in Caledonia and life is beginning to return to normal.

Whew.
 

xml

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2006
Messages
15
mancow said:
It seems like here in the States we hear absolutely nothing about Canada, ever. It's like it doesn't even exist to our media.

Doesn't seem... it's true. There's very little coverage about other issues in countries in the US.

The only thing that made the news down here was how Terrorists™ were caught in Durham...
 

EJB

20 + year membership
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
3,644
Location
Downtown Hamilton
Graeme: Thanks for getting to the heart of the matter, my explanation is simplistic; I do have sad memories of the OKA crisis though.
There seesm to be a lot of politics on the reserves (as there are 'politics' in any municipality). I have heard that there were some guns from the Brantford area of the 6 nations who sell guns to the bangers in T.O.

Hopefully someone will settle this to everones decent satisfaction, the guy Peterson failed again I guess (remember 1990 and Bob Rae?).
I guess the assault on your buddies put the wheels in motion to end this bullsh*t, kinda cool that way I guess, CH news does good.
If Hamilton takes over policing in the area will they be dispatched out of Mountain/Dundas or build a new rural station?
Eric
 

rhutch

Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Messages
569
Location
Ontario
jellotor said:
That is actually two different things. Haldimand County is policed by the OPP and 6 Nations is policed by either an OPP administered program or a First Nations police service. In any event, 6 Nations police and the OPP in Haldimand are organizationally and functionally different. In fact, during this whole debacle there have been 'liason officers' from 6Nat in Caledonia...and I've never been able to guage from the townspeople how they feel about that idea.

But the gist of your post is on point. Technically speaking, however, Haldimand County is no more a native community than Toronto.

I agree I'm aware that the policing on the reserve itself is a Six Nations issue but the natives don't stay on the reserve so you need a police force that can actually police natives that are off the resreve, without fear that the leadership won't support them. The OPP basically has no respect from the natives and throught there inaction has lost all respect from the towns people with there two tiered law enforcement policy. Had to laugh they showed the Ipperwash inquiry yesterday where they continue to drag officers Dean's name trough the mud even though he is no longer available to defend himself (makes for a very convenient scapegoat). I beleive it was the OPP commissioner, who was saying how sensitive they have become to native issues ,blah, blah blah. Me thinks the pendulum has swung way to far the other way. Now they just have to learn to be senstive to everyone else's issues.

I think you guys should do a special on Caledonia under seige, 1/2 hour or hour long special, talk to the towns people, Native leaders, OPP officials and rank and file officers if you can get them to talk, would interesting. Follow the land dispute claims, have some experts, look at the Feds role (or lack there of). A real documentary which would shed some real truth on the situation. It probably could be a mulitpart series if you tackle the issue of land claims and past native actions.
 

SCPD

QRT
Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
0
Location
Virginia
jellotor said:
The Iroquois Confederacy (and bear in mind the Confederacy is an extra-national organization that includes aboriginals from Canada and the US) have always claimed the lands along the Grand River--I believe it is six miles either side of the Grand River--belongs to them as part of a 200 year old treaty, called the Haldimand Grant. For those of you who aren't familiar with the area, start with a map of the north shore of Lake Erie and find Dunnville. Trace the length of the Grand River through Caledonia and K-W/Cambridge all the way up to the Wellington-Dufferin-Grey area. That's a lot of land.

The Confederacy claims the Douglas Creek Estates (DCE) are part of the Haldimand Grant. They are quite close to the Six Nations. If you look at a map of the south of Caledonia, everything to the north of the 6th Line of Oneida and west of Argyle Street is in dispute.


I had no idea about that part. Thanks for providing that info. Guess I should watch CH a bit more. :)
 

jellotor

Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2004
Messages
1,077
Location
Hamilton, ON
wheelchair said:
I had no idea about that part. Thanks for providing that info. Guess I should watch CH a bit more. :)

In truth, you're not going to get that kind of in-depth info on TV news unless, as rhutch mentioned, we do a half hour special.

And I don't believe that is in the plans!

Anyway, I should just clarify that the areas north of the DCE which are already surveys and neighborhoods in Caledonia aren't in dispute in this occupation at the moment. I was a little imprecise in that regard in my last post...regardless, the DCE lands are still vast.
 

snowplowguy

Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2005
Messages
33
wheelchair said:
Guess I should watch CH a bit more. :)

...... specially at 6am on weekdays...... Leslie Stewart is still a hottie.

And why do they keep that annoying Lori DeAngelis around? Speculation around these parts is that she's either the boss's daughter or the station borrowed from the mob and providing her with employment is part of their payback agreement .....lol. Yes............most will agree she really is that bad.

... and if you ever see Dan McLean..... ask him if he still remembers living across from the High School in Smithville.....lol. He abandoned us rednecks 25 years ago ..... but his old house is still there.
 
Last edited:

EJB

20 + year membership
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
3,644
Location
Downtown Hamilton
Perhaps Graeme could hook u up with her, as I think he works the overnight/morning shift.
:)
 

jellotor

Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2004
Messages
1,077
Location
Hamilton, ON
EJB said:
Perhaps Graeme could hook u up with her, as I think he works the overnight/morning shift.
:)

Heh, well, her husband might have a problem with that. Les is the friendliest, nicest person you'll ever meet. She's even nice to me...and that's a feat in and of itself.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top