Can scanners be detected?

[nd5y]

Intresting topic..Along those lines How do the radio shows(Basic am-fm) rate the amount of listeners?

By conducting listener surveys. NOT by detectinng local oscillators.
Arbitron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[apd3190]

I have never had a survey.. Was just wondering how that worked

 

[N_Jay]

I have never had a survey.. Was just wondering how that worked

I would read up lots of Arbitron and Nielsen.

 

[apd3190]

Some people it seems dont like you around here NJay . But you have helped me with some things in the past and i will look into it.. thanks again

 

[N_Jay]

Some people it seems dont like you around here NJay

Only "some"? I am slipping. :wink:

But you have helped me with some things in the past and i will look into it.. thanks again

No problem. I find people learn a lot better when they do a little of their own research.
It is so easy today with Google to find 5 or 10 reliable sources on any subject.

And you don't even have to worry too much if they are "perfect" because if you read a few you will find the common facts and the disparate opinions. (not to be confused with each other).

If people simply give you an answer you will never know if you are getting fact or opinion, and therefore not know if it is truth or crap.

 

[jim202]

I would like to know on just what information you are basing your stand on. Every receiver
has a local oscillator to use as a mixer to take the received signal and mix it down to the IF.
These local oscillators do generate a low level signal that can be detected if you know
where to look.

Jim

The short answer is no. The long answer is no, with a long-winded explanation of how receivers can be detected but still with no practical police application.



So they could be asking beforehand, and you wouldn't know because you weren't scanning before that.

 

[Gator596]

There are also Mobiltrak sensors that can determine what radio stations people are listening to in their cars as they drive by the device.
See Advertisers Tune In to New Radio Gauge (washingtonpost.com)
The article says the technology "compliments the Arbitron data".
Peter Wright (see Spycatcher, above) described the device he developed ("Rafter") as being able to find clandestine radios that were tuned to whatever specific frequency the Moscow station were broadcasting on. I think he mentioned the oscilators where the key to the whole thing. They would wait until Moscow began to transmit, make note of the frequency and then go out with Rafter to find radios tuned to it.
Sounds like the Mobiltrak uses the same idea, but can determine a wider number of frequencies being listened to at the same time.
Ah - whaddaya know - Wikipedia has some info. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_RAFTER

 

[N_Jay]

I would like to know on just what information you are basing your stand on. Every receiver
has a local oscillator to use as a mixer to take the received signal and mix it down to the IF.
These local oscillators do generate a low level signal that can be detected if you know
where to look.

Jim

Probably the shear number of devices with oscillators and the difficulty in sorting out a scanner LO radiation from the mass amount of RF noise fro RF and digital equipment.

But, I am just guessing at what he meant.

 

[N_Jay]

There are also Mobiltrak sensors that can determine what radio stations people are listening to in their cars as they drive by the device.
See Advertisers Tune In to New Radio Gauge (washingtonpost.com)
The article says the technology "compliments the Arbitron data".
Peter Wright (see Spycatcher, above) described the device he developed ("Rafter") as being able to find clandestine radios that were tuned to whatever specific frequency the Moscow station were broadcasting on. I think he mentioned the oscilators where the key to the whole thing. They would wait until Moscow began to transmit, make note of the frequency and then go out with Rafter to find radios tuned to it.
Sounds like the Mobiltrak uses the same idea, but can determine a wider number of frequencies being listened to at the same time.
Ah - whaddaya know - Wikipedia has some info. See Operation RAFTER - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There was a lot less noise in the 1950's

 

[kb2vxa]

Duplicate post deleted.

 

[rfradioconsult]

As some lady said "is that your scanner in your pocket, or you just glad to see me"

 

[Hoofy]

I am currently a Ham radio operator and when I get within a few hundred feet of someone scanning the frequency I'm listening to I get a blip- blip- blib on that freq. One guy had a big outside antenna and I could pick up his from about a quarter mile.

Years ago I was in law enforcement and we used to use 40mhz band and that radio would do the same thing. When we went past where a scanner was in use on our freq we would get the blip- blip-blip.

That was the old analog stuff.

We didn't have any detecters but the radio was pretty accurate if you were close enough.

 

[57Bill]

Do they know I'm listening?

[It gives me the feeling that they know they are being listened in on somehow. Perhaps it's just me.[/QUOTE]

"...increases your paranoia: like looking in the mirror and seeing a police car"
CSNY

 

[smason]

A good example of this is how in the UK the Ofcom "snoop vans" detect unlicensed TV sets.

From the Ministry of Housinge? I've never seen so many bleedin' aerials.
The man said their equipment could pinpoint a purr at four hundred yards!

 

[Don_Burke]

Intresting topic..Along those lines How do the radio shows(Basic am-fm) rate the amount of listeners?

The old way is to select people to fill out diaries of what they listen to for a given period, usually a week.

There once was a system that picked up local oscillators for ratings purposes. I do not think it is around any more.

There were outfits that took phone surveys. They all seem to be gone.

The latest and greatest is the Portable People Meter. Every station in the market has encoders that put a coded signal atop the audio. Selected people carry around devices that listen to whatever audio is in their presence and try to read the coded signal and log it.

 

[rfradioconsult]

We did a Neilson TV survey about a year ago. First they called and asked if we would participate and then asked how many TV's were in the household, they sent us a logbook for each tv broken down in 30 minute segments for you to enter the channel you were watching or the call sign. They also asked who was your provider, cable, satellite (brand) over the air, so they could determin the actual programming source. BTW they included a $1.00 bill with each book to prompt you to send them in.

 

[kb2vxa]

Just for a bit of fun with Canada...

Originally Posted by kb2vxa
A good example of this is how in the UK the Ofcom "snoop vans" detect unlicensed TV sets.

"From the Ministry of Housinge?"
No, from the Ministry of Silly Walks (Monty Python) or in your case the Fire Brigade. (Note your spelling.)

"I've never seen so many bleedin' aerials."
They must make quite a mess on the roof, all sticky and stuff. On a serious note (?) often there are pirate radio aerials hidden among them and a satellite dish aimed suspiciously low to the horizon, guess what that's for.

"The man said their equipment could pinpoint a purr at four hundred yards!"
But a wise man knows when he lets the dog out the purrs come to him.

----------------------------

"...increases your paranoia: like looking in the mirror and seeing a police car"
CSNY

Hey, I almost forgot about that one (and) Almost Cut My Hair!
Must be because I had the flu for Christmas,
And I'm not feeling up to par.
It increases my paranoia,
Like looking in my mirror and seeing a police car.

 

[57Bill]

Hey IEEE guy - I once received the Neilson log book and crisp $1 bill as you described.. The instructions included a note stating that my feedback was to be representative of 100,000 viewers! That's all I needed to know. I then created a made up family of four with very unlikely viewing habits (ie. my fictional 9 year old daughter watched nothing but news shows, while my fictional 15 year old son watched nothing but religious programs, and the head of household watched nothing but cartoons and wrestling, etc). I had more time on my hands in those days, and a little sicker sense of humor than currently.

 

[13riverking]

[It gives me the feeling that they know they are being listened in on somehow. Perhaps it's just me.

"...increases your paranoia: like looking in the mirror and seeing a police car"
CSNY[/QUOTE]

Ok, ive been out of law enforcement for about 10 years, but in my experience we understood people listen, and also we{patrol men} carried scanners, and caused feed back when to close to radios, ie 140 Mhz, but never had a bleep, bleep, bleep, or what ever that means, now i understand that things have changed in ten years but i dont think someone is detecting our scanners, just my thoughts

 

[slicerwizard]

I am currently a Ham radio operator and when I get within a few hundred feet of someone scanning the frequency I'm listening to I get a blip- blip- blib on that freq. One guy had a big outside antenna and I could pick up his from about a quarter mile.

Years ago I was in law enforcement and we used to use 40mhz band and that radio would do the same thing. When we went past where a scanner was in use on our freq we would get the blip- blip-blip.

That was the old analog stuff.

We didn't have any detecters but the radio was pretty accurate if you were close enough.

While a scanner is tuned to "your" frequency, its local oscillator is not on your frequency, so why would you hear it? A hammie should know better.