Capacity Plus Tracking issue

[WX4JCW]

Actually it’s back up, I’ll let it run while it’s slow


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Jason WX4JCW
Unication G4, BCD536HP

 

[Ubbe]

In this case, it almost seems like a feature causing the Rest to jump around very quickly intended to make conversations harder to track.

I can ensure you, having managed several systems and having insight in many more, that there are never anything being designed, setup or configured to make it harder for scanner listener to follow a system.
You try and make systems as easy to operate and use as possible, including as few elements as possible and if unauthorised monitoring are a concern then encryption is enabled. In DMR systems the encryption is included at no extra charge and even the simplest basic privacy encryption stops any scanner from listening in.

One explanation could be that the system are having interferencies on the receivers and when that is detected it moves the rest channel to another frequency. If it is a new system then it usually needs filters added and frequencies swapped to handle any interference issues.

/Ubbe

 

[WX4JCW]

I can ensure you, having managed several systems and having insight in many more, that there are never anything being designed, setup or configured to make it harder for scanner listener to follow a system.

You try and make systems as easy to operate and use as possible, including as few elements as possible and if unauthorised monitoring are a concern then encryption is enabled. In DMR systems the encryption is included at no extra charge and even the simplest basic privacy encryption stops any scanner from listening in.



One explanation could be that the system are having interferencies on the receivers and when that is detected it moves the rest channel to another frequency. If it is a new system then it usually needs filters added and frequencies swapped to handle any interference issues.



/Ubbe

There is another system right next to it so that’s a definite possibility


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Jason WX4JCW
Unication G4, BCD536HP

 

[WX4JCW]

I can ensure you, having managed several systems and having insight in many more, that there are never anything being designed, setup or configured to make it harder for scanner listener to follow a system.

You try and make systems as easy to operate and use as possible, including as few elements as possible and if unauthorised monitoring are a concern then encryption is enabled. In DMR systems the encryption is included at no extra charge and even the simplest basic privacy encryption stops any scanner from listening in.



One explanation could be that the system are having interferencies on the receivers and when that is detected it moves the rest channel to another frequency. If it is a new system then it usually needs filters added and frequencies swapped to handle any interference issues.



/Ubbe

Question, why would 2 frequencies or LCN’s not be used


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Jason WX4JCW
Unication G4, BCD536HP

 

[kh6sz]

Question, why would 2 frequencies or LCN’s not be used


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Jason WX4JCW
Unication G4, BCD536HP

I'm close to several casinos and they switch on and off frequencies all the time, they might use 2-3 frequencies during the week when it's not that busy, and then switch some more on to about 5-6 frequencies during the weekend. I guess it depends on how much traffic they expect.

 

[DaveNF2G]

The problem is a disconnect between the way the system actually works (which is shown when using DSD+), the way Uniden scanners need to be programmed, and RRDB policy.

I can't locate the thread now, but there was a long discussion about this back when DMR became available on Uniden scanners. The scanner must have every LCN programmed. Each frequency is assigned two LCNs because of the two slots-per-channel of DMR. For some reason, the DB admins seemed to think that putting that info into the database was unnecessary.

 

[UPMan]

In his case, he did program all 3 LCNs. Each frequency has only one LCN (but two LSNs). This reflects RRDB policy (but not necessarily how all systems have been documented, as some systems were put into RRDB before said policy was implemented).

 

[werinshades]

The problem is a disconnect between the way the system actually works (which is shown when using DSD+), the way Uniden scanners need to be programmed, and RRDB policy.

I can't locate the thread now, but there was a long discussion about this back when DMR became available on Uniden scanners. The scanner must have every LCN programmed. Each frequency is assigned two LCNs because of the two slots-per-channel of DMR. For some reason, the DB admins seemed to think that putting that info into the database was unnecessary.

In his case, he did program all 3 LCNs. Each frequency has only one LCN (but two LSNs). This reflects RRDB policy (but not necessarily how all systems have been documented, as some systems were put into RRDB before said policy was implemented).

I have been successful programming each frequency once, assigning it one LCN and don't appear to be missing any traffic on a busy MotoTRBO CAP+ system. When I program in talk groups, I select "Any" next to TDMA Slot in Sentinel.

UPMan...I like that new avatar best...so far!

 

[N1GTL]

I'm close to several casinos and they switch on and off frequencies all the time, they might use 2-3 frequencies during the week when it's not that busy, and then switch some more on to about 5-6 frequencies during the weekend. I guess it depends on how much traffic they expect.

In a CP or LCP system, they can be configured with a rest channel time out timer. The default from /\/\ is set for 8 minutes. If a repeater does not become active for the set number of minutes, it will take itself out of the pool and not become a rest channel until activity warrants it being needed, based on the repeaters preference level setting.

From the help file:

The Rest Channel Time-out-Timer controls how long a repeater keeps its rest channel role in the absence of a new call activity before moving the role to another repeater in multi channel Capacity Plus - Single Site and Capacity Plus - Multi Site System. The Rest Channel Time-out-Timer starts as soon as a repeater assumes the rest channel role. In most call scenarios, the rest channel will move to another channel before the Rest Channel TOT expires. However, during a low call volume scenario (e.g. during off hours and holidays) the Rest Channel TOT will time out more often and it will normally keep rotating the rest channel from one channel to another. The Rest Channel TOT will be most effective during idle or low call volume condition. For a site where the repeaters have different channel preference level, it is suggested to use larger Rest Channel TOT value (10 minutes), so that high-preference channels are more frequently utilized even during low call volume conditions. Note that the Rest Channel TOT mechanism steers the rest channel through all preference level repeaters in round-robin manner, whereas the incoming calls mechanism selects higher preference channels more often than lower preference channels. Shorter Rest Channel TOT (2 minutes) will lead to faster Rest Channel rotation and better resilience to failure and interference, however may have minor impact to battery life, because radios will receive new rest channel assignment information more often. The Rest channel rotation may cause minor delay in call access time during force rest channel switching period. The Faster the rotation, the more frequent will be such access time delays. Note the impact of such delays should be unnoticeable to radio users. If necessary, the Adaptive Rest Channel Rotation functionality can also be disabled completely by disabling Rest Channel TOT value. This droplist allows you to configure the Time Out Timer of the rest channel for the trunked Capacity Plus - Single Site repeater. Whenever the rest channel is not in use, the repeater switches to a different rest channel after the time is specified by this field. The purpose of this function is to increase the system's resilience to RF interference. The valid choices available are Disabled, 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10.

 

[kh6sz]

In a CP or LCP system, they can be configured with a rest channel time out timer. The default from /\/\ is set for 8 minutes. If a repeater does not become active for the set number of minutes, it will take itself out of the pool and not become a rest channel until activity warrants it being needed, based on the repeaters preference level setting.

From the help file:

The Rest Channel Time-out-Timer controls how long a repeater keeps its rest channel role in the absence of a new call activity before moving the role to another repeater in multi channel Capacity Plus - Single Site and Capacity Plus - Multi Site System. The Rest Channel Time-out-Timer starts as soon as a repeater assumes the rest channel role. In most call scenarios, the rest channel will move to another channel before the Rest Channel TOT expires. However, during a low call volume scenario (e.g. during off hours and holidays) the Rest Channel TOT will time out more often and it will normally keep rotating the rest channel from one channel to another. The Rest Channel TOT will be most effective during idle or low call volume condition. For a site where the repeaters have different channel preference level, it is suggested to use larger Rest Channel TOT value (10 minutes), so that high-preference channels are more frequently utilized even during low call volume conditions. Note that the Rest Channel TOT mechanism steers the rest channel through all preference level repeaters in round-robin manner, whereas the incoming calls mechanism selects higher preference channels more often than lower preference channels. Shorter Rest Channel TOT (2 minutes) will lead to faster Rest Channel rotation and better resilience to failure and interference, however may have minor impact to battery life, because radios will receive new rest channel assignment information more often. The Rest channel rotation may cause minor delay in call access time during force rest channel switching period. The Faster the rotation, the more frequent will be such access time delays. Note the impact of such delays should be unnoticeable to radio users. If necessary, the Adaptive Rest Channel Rotation functionality can also be disabled completely by disabling Rest Channel TOT value. This droplist allows you to configure the Time Out Timer of the rest channel for the trunked Capacity Plus - Single Site repeater. Whenever the rest channel is not in use, the repeater switches to a different rest channel after the time is specified by this field. The purpose of this function is to increase the system's resilience to RF interference. The valid choices available are Disabled, 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10.

Thanks N1GTL:
That's very important info to know.