CFD Apparatus status discussion (Non-Radio Information)

[RP201]

Not speaking specific to Calgary here, but this seems to be a trend in a couple of different ways in my observations. I've seen a few agencies calling a unit "Rescue" when it's actually a pumper which has had its equipment complement loaded with considerations towards rescue. I have also seen some purpose-built rescue trucks with a water tank and pump - not full size type 1 engine, but something lesser - as part of the spec.

Apparently Toronto may drop the name "Rescue" from the rescue pumps in favor of enhanced pumps tasked with auto extrication, hazmat assessment, elevator rescue and so fourth.

 

[ENGINE_4]

How many staff on a Hazmat?

It should be 3 FF's. At times they're probably running with 2 FF's

 

[JABoomer]

I was wondering if anyone knows:

-How many seats are in the cab
-How many of those seats have SCBA brackets/holders
-How many seats are usually occupied during a call

Each for a CFD engine, aerial, and rescue?

 

[Ghostpolice24]

I was wondering if anyone knows:

-How many seats are in the cab
-How many of those seats have SCBA brackets/holders
-How many seats are usually occupied during a call

Each for a CFD engine, aerial, and rescue?

Engine has 5, 3 with the oxygen tank holders afaik. Aerial has 4 or 5 depending on the Aerial and Rescues have 5 afaik. 2 or 3 with the tank holders if thats what you're asking

 

[JABoomer]

Engine has 5, 3 with the oxygen tank holders afaik. Aerial has 4 or 5 depending on the Aerial and Rescues have 5 afaik. 2 or 3 with the tank holders if thats what you're asking

Thanks. I assume the three in the back are the ones with integrating tank holders. And for standard operations, what is the crew compliment on an engine, aerial, and ladder? 5 for all?

 

[RP201]

Thanks. I assume the three in the back are the ones with integrating tank holders. And for standard operations, what is the crew compliment on an engine, aerial, and ladder? 5 for all?

I watched a video this morning on YouTube, it was a tour around the High Rise. It has four rear facing seats in the back with no tank holders, they didn't show the officer seat. Maybe someone else can confirm this, but apparently SCBA storage will be moved out of the cabs entirely.

 

[Ghostpolice24]

Thanks. I assume the three in the back are the ones with integrating tank holders. And for standard operations, what is the crew compliment on an engine, aerial, and ladder? 5 for all?

4 or 5 for Engines depending on staffing (usually only 5 if there's a rookie) Aerial is 2 unless there's a rookie, then there's 3. This is what FFs from 23 told me a couple years ago, unknown if theyre still the same. Rescues its 2 or 3 for the same reason as Aerial UNLESS it's a Technical Rescue unit (TR10 or 11) then its 4 or 5. Technical Supports are cross staffed with the Engine crew so whoever is on Engine will be on the Support. FRP is 2, Hazmat is 2 or 3 firefighters. (All of this came from CFD when I got a tour back in 2019, there's a chance all this is outdated but if not, this should be correct.)

 

[JABoomer]

4 or 5 for Engines depending on staffing (usually only 5 if there's a rookie) Aerial is 2 unless there's a rookie, then there's 3. This is what FFs from 23 told me a couple years ago, unknown if theyre still the same. Rescues its 2 or 3 for the same reason as Aerial UNLESS it's a Technical Rescue unit (TR10 or 11) then its 4 or 5. Technical Supports are cross staffed with the Engine crew so whoever is on Engine will be on the Support. FRP is 2, Hazmat is 2 or 3 firefighters. (All of this came from CFD when I got a tour back in 2019, there's a chance all this is outdated but if not, this should be correct.)

Thanks! The only thing that is surprising is the lack of FFs on an aerial, but I suppose the engines bring the bodies.

 

[Ghostpolice24]

Pretty much, also I did some digging and found a thread with a lot of [what I call] "Ancient" CFD trucks, yellow rigs and the old 97 Pumper that had that snorkel tower(?) on it.

None of these are mine, it belongs to someone named "Fyregeek" on the Fire pictures forum.

Spoiler: Images

Former Pumper 24 [According to labels on the site]

Former Pumper 12 [According to labels on the site]

Former Pumper 23 [According to the labels on the site]

Former Spare Heavy Rescue [According to the labels on the site]

 

[Jay911]

I kind of figured you guys would have seen this recent PR drive from the union... Calgary Needs Enough Firefighters in Fire Halls.

 

[RP201]

I kind of figured you guys would have seen this recent PR drive from the union... Calgary Needs Enough Firefighters in Fire Halls.

Thanks for sharing Jay, that is some useful information.

 

[JABoomer]

So if the engine crew typically puts water on fire, and the truck crew typically does all the other stuff. Who positions and controls the master stream on the end of an aerial truck when both apparatus show up on scene to a fire?

 

[ENGINE_4]

The Aerial crew sets up and operates their truck when they need to. CFD does not have the staffing to follow what we might consider a normal American working fire response. With only 12-13 firefighters showing up on a first alarm fire ( 21 operational ff's on a working fire) assignments are giving to companies when they arrive on scene. Tt also depends on what the incident commander needs on scene. A Rescue crew could take search, Aerial could take ventilation and vise verse, Engine could take search too. I've heard an Air/light crew take the fire attack role too.. it all depends on who's on scene and what is needed.

This is all theory, but at times CFD can get away with one or two hose teams at a working fire, this takes 2-4 firefighters (2 per team). with 21 ff's (excluding chiefs and FRP) showing up at a working fire that leaves the IC with 11-13 ff's (-1 for pump operator and -1 for first Engine captain being IC, -4 for safety team AND assuming only 1 Engine is pumping water at the scene). Not all crews show up at once, but all are trained the same; therefore assignments are given to different crews as they arrive on scene and again by what IC deems necessary and needed.

 

[ENGINE_4]

This is part of the Unions fight about staffing. IF CFD was to staff Aerials and Rescues with 4 ff's, more crews would be on hand at a working fire - fires would be put out quicker and less second alarms/special calls would occur. Also generally safer for all crews on scene. Command structure could also change - Aerial companies could take up specific tasks on scene, same with Engines and Rescues. Their are different command structures and styles for fighting a fire out there. CFD has a good structure and it works good for them

 

[RP201]

How does CFD handle on scene accountability and RIT? Do they assign crews?

 

[Ghostpolice24]

This is part of the Unions fight about staffing. IF CFD was to staff Aerials and Rescues with 4 ff's, more crews would be on hand at a working fire - fires would be put out quicker and less second alarms/special calls would occur. Also generally safer for all crews on scene. Command structure could also change - Aerial companies could take up specific tasks on scene, same with Engines and Rescues. Their are different command structures and styles for fighting a fire out there. CFD has a good structure and it works good for them

Do you think if we did get 4 members per truck it would effect the amount of trucks that go to a first alarm?

 

[RP201]

With everything going on in the world these days, talking all things fire related is a welcome departure. That being said, CFD is clearly forward thinking with the equipment and structure, however I personally would like to see 4 person crews on the primary rigs. Two on the Air/Light is fine and two on FRP. (These units are fantastic) One of the benefits of a crew of four on a quint, is if they are first in, they can get an attack going.

Bronto 25 at a small house fire.

 

[JABoomer]

Another random question. How many engines/pums can a typical hydrant provide water for?

 

[Ghostpolice24]

Another random question. How many engines/pums can a typical hydrant provide water for?

I believe 2 or 3 due to the amount of outputs/inputs.

 

[Jay911]

It depends on the robustness of the water plant feeding the hydrant. I can speak in generics, not the City specifically...

You're not typically going to connect more than one truck up to a single hydrant. The multiple ports are primarily used to afford you different amounts of waterflow, not to allow multiple trucks to use one hydrant. A modern fire pumper will move between 1250 and 4500 gallons of water a minute - the top end of that is often more than a water system can supply from one outlet. Many years ago I remember a local fire department doing an advanced pumping test where they brought in a heavy-duty pumper and ran it near its maximum, and it was strong enough to suck all the silt up off the bottom of the water mains, which made everybody's kitchen faucets and showers and etc run 'brown' for a day or so. That's another thing - hydrant water is almost always tied into the residential/commercial service supply, so heavy use in one will impact the other. A lot of places if there is a big fire going on will either automatically or manually increase pumping capacity at the water treatment/delivery plant to account for this.

In large fires you're going to see second, third, fourth, etc., pumpers go around the community looking for the next available hydrant. Sometimes you might have to go 2 or 3 blocks to tag one, especially if you need to find one on a different water main than the one the first crew is using (so that it's not drawing water from the same source as the first).

In some cases, especially in rural areas, you set up one pumper at a hydrant (or a "static water source" meaning a lake, pond, pool, etc) and then run impressive lengths of hose a far distance to where you need the water. One such example on video is these guys in Georgia many years ago who ran over a mile of hose from a pumping point to another location, primarily as a test of their abilities. All I know is, I wouldn't want to be involved in re-decking the truck.